Author Topic: Club Direction  (Read 34200 times)

Andy M

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2009, 11:24:06 AM »
Re: PLI and membership.

Is a member the person who uses the forum or is it the person who pays subs.



Ideally yes. You pay your subs (or even buy a rally ticket) and the club extends it's duty of care to protect you in case a passer by does something silly and wants to sue.

If I go on Yahoo and tell someone to jump off a bridge and they do, Yahoo is safe, I am not. I ticked a box when I signed up and they sent me an email confirming they'd only let me pass on my info, they assume little duty of care beyond banning me if I break copywrite or anti-discrimination or other laws. The person who jumped could come looking for me with his lawyers though and my personal (household or bike) insurance would run a mile.

I don't think it is a red herring. If we act as a club we need the PLI. If we act as a discussion group we need the disclaimers. If we do something between the two without PLI people's houses can be at risk.

I don't know details of the GS Club case, but basically a website was set up to talk BMW's. Someone associated to the site suggested a ride out. On the ride out one bike hit another. One rider involved in the crash pursued not only the other rider, but also the club with a claim that the ride organisation was somehow flawed (I'd bet the bike insurer encouraged this). As there was no PLI, the ride organiser/suggester and the website people were all personally in the frame, I would guess because registered users on there (I left before the incident) were given a number. This site now charges.

We can pick a route in either direction, but everyone should understand the middle one is most dangerous.

For part of the fiver a year I'll take my MAG PLI cover as good value thank you very much.

Andy
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 11:41:11 AM by Andy M »

trophydave

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2009, 12:35:46 PM »

For a free board with no PLI there needs IMHO to be a very serious disclaimer (that all new members need to acknowledge) setting out that what members do based on information exchanged is their own *****y business.
Andy

I have a mate in the local IAM group.On one run out someone new turned up for the ride and promptly threw his bike in a field on a slow bend.This went to claiming against the group,even though my mate saw what happened and it was the riders fault,no one elses.I do not know what happened regarding the claim,but now they have a disclaimer that runs to a couple of pages that must be signed by every rider before a run out.No signiture,no ride.

The local club I belong to doesn't have any PLI,but then we don't arrange any events any more.We have had it in the past,the last entry in the cash book says it cost £60 for a years cover.

I would be happy to pay a small fee towards the upkeep of the T.C. and to cover PLI cost etc even though the only time I am likely to meet anyone is at the Dragon.

guest18

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2009, 03:45:13 PM »
Fiver a year sounds cheap enough not to put anyone sensible off, I'd certainly pay that. Is it worth a club poll / vote? (or a dictators decision!  ;))
Certainly I think not having PLI would be a. foolish and b. unfair to GC and indeed anyone else trying to organise anything on here.

themoudie

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2009, 06:52:04 PM »
Fiver a year sounds cheap enough not to put anyone sensible off, I'd certainly pay that. Is it worth a club poll / vote? (or a dictators decision!  ;))
Certainly I think not having PLI would be a. foolish and b. unfair to GC and indeed anyone else trying to organise anything on here.

Aye [X]

Equals 2 pints or less if the goes int' posh side!

Having read of the quaffing capacity potential on the site, it won't really dent the merriment!

Toodle pip, Bill.

guest27

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2009, 09:14:52 AM »

And if you have no paid memberships at all, just forum users, then everyone falls into the latter category. If you have an open forum and website, with no hoops to jump through to see the juicy bits, or fees to pay for dubious or uncertain privileges, you'll get a lot more interest and a lot more particpants, who will make contact with each other and meet up. To paraphrase the Bible - "where one or two are gathered in its name, there is the Thumper Club" ;-)

The PLI thing seems irrelevant to what TC people do for most of the year - it's just sounding to me like a bit of a red herring, and an obstacle to progress.

To get more participants, you need to make it freer and easier, not complicated and restrictive.

Just my 2 euro worth.

Cheers
Richard

Being as there have been no membs collected for some time, that is essentially what we have, and I am not sure I have detected a large jump in people cont to here.  I would like to see the data.

However, taking all the points into account and the clarity from Andy that we either need to be one thing or the other, the danger is in the hole in the middle, and that people will use this site to organise a get together, and that insurance companies are out to maximise return on investment (as all businesses are) etc etc, the small amount per annum to cover web costs, PLI etc seems to be the minimum state we should be willing to accept, even if it is only to make those of us with a more risk averse attitude feel happy about the bank accounts of people who do stuff to make TC happen.

R

Simon#83

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2009, 01:13:16 PM »
On the basis of 100-150 members then MAG affiliation was around £1 a member and the insurance another £2 to £3 per person. If you include others costs such as the hosting etc then £5/year covers it. Which is what was being charged for the internet only membership.
Which takes me back to my earlier question, if we charge this, what incentive is there for people to pay, what do they get for their £5 ?
If people choose not to pay then that's fair enough they wont be covered and that's their problem, but we would need a core of around 100 to pay.

A quick bit of "Googling" brought up this link:

http://www.bikesure.co.uk/news.php?newsid=190

An "off the shelf" PLI policy specifically for bike clubs from "£110 per year". Twelve events per year should cover things I'd have thought, but it can be tailored specifically for the club.

How about a system where an individual who turns up to an "official" TC club (need to define this, a gathering of more than 6 TC members, maybe?) pays £5 to cover club expenses and to ensure they're covered? An individual need only pay this fee once a year, subsequent "events" are "free", but you'll still need to sign an attendance register.

If you don't attend events, you only participate in the forums, for example, then you don't need any cover.

Clearly, someone in an "official" capacity will need to keep a register of the attendees and collect any fivers on behalf of the club, but this would be all the administration work required.

No doubt there is a more specific definition of "club event" in the insurance policy, but as this policy is tailored for smaller clubs, I'm assuming there wouldn't be too much paperwork required to cover our larger get togethers.

Thoughts?

BTW, interesting to see in the Bikesure blurb that not many organisers of large events have PLI to cover club stands, etc. Were we covered at the Uttoxeter show or was it just assumed we were?


Simon
KTM Duke II
Royal Enfield Himalayan

robG

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2009, 07:08:17 PM »
 Spot on Simon , seems to tally nicely with Steve H's estimate .If the £110:00 per year covers twelve club organised events , then I think this is enough. If we charge £5:00 for full membership then £2:00 goes towards the PLI and the rest for club funds .

The issue over collecting money and keeping track of whose paid etc would appear to be a nightmare , given our collective ability to organise.Better to have a one off membership payment from everyone , part of which pays for the PLI , be it  £5 per annum or what ever .

Would this cover it?It does seem very cheap.

Come on ,set a date when membership is due , method of payment , how much , and get this sorted and move on .

Rob .

themoudie

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2009, 10:13:13 PM »

Come on ,set a date when membership is due , method of payment , how much , and get this sorted and move on .

Rob .

Aye [X]

Thank you Simon, Steve H and Rob.

Regards to All, Bill.

guest288

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #83 on: July 21, 2009, 06:03:24 AM »
I think that is a good idea- I haven't been to any meets yet but still feel like I'm part of the club- I would gladly pay so that we're covered at events- it's not necisarily us but the other berks out there that would ruin things, so for the sake of a fiver a year lets just get it sorted- I don't think anyone can grumble at that considering how much work GC et al do behind the scenes anyway...

mini-thumper

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #84 on: July 21, 2009, 10:44:03 AM »

Come on ,set a date when membership is due , method of payment , how much , and get this sorted and move on .

Rob .

Aye [X]

Thank you Simon, Steve H and Rob.

Regards to All, Bill.

Agree with you all on this one. I'm getting VERY bored with this issue (again) and I consider myself vaguely interested and/or active within the club!!!!!!?????? God only knows what potential 'members' must think.

Boyd

Steve H

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #85 on: July 21, 2009, 12:12:06 PM »
I'm working on making some minor changes to record membership, and place restrictions on some areas of the site based upon membership.
Once this is done, and Graham is ready to deal with memberships I will put the PayPal/membership page up again

Mark

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #86 on: July 21, 2009, 03:43:05 PM »
I'm working on making some minor changes to record membership, and place restrictions on some areas of the site based upon membership.
Once this is done, and Graham is ready to deal with memberships I will put the PayPal/membership page up again

HOORAH! Does that mean I can be a proper member soon.....hopefully in time for the Dragon Rally.
There exists a set of people who believe 2>4

robG

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #87 on: July 21, 2009, 06:08:12 PM »
God only knows what potential 'members' must think.
Boyd

I can only imagine , people must have been put off by it all.

Rob.

themoudie

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #88 on: July 21, 2009, 07:48:07 PM »
I'm working on making some minor changes to record membership, and place restrictions on some areas of the site based upon membership.
Once this is done, and Graham is ready to deal with memberships I will put the PayPal/membership page up again

Thank you SteveH, for your patience and diligence with this bit of electrickery, sorted! :)

Oi!!!! PayPal!!! You got any dosh? :D

My regards, Bill.

002

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Re: Club Direction
« Reply #89 on: July 21, 2009, 10:38:41 PM »

Come on ,set a date when membership is due , method of payment , how much , and get this sorted and move on .

Rob .

Aye [X]

Thank you Simon, Steve H and Rob.

Regards to All, Bill.

Agree with you all on this one. I'm getting VERY bored with this issue (again) and I consider myself vaguely interested and/or active within the club!!!!!!?????? God only knows what potential 'members' must think.

Boyd

Yes I Totally Agree !

Jethro
Cooey
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Lee Enfield
ELG