Not Thumper - MotoGP

[guest27]

Damn damn damn - misread MCN and thought the coverage started on BBC at 2pm - rather than on BBCi.  Got to see two Ducatis and a very very lucky Yank in parc ferme.  Oh well - did dig a big hole in the garden.

So am I the only one who thinks NH is a nice enough bloke but soooo lucky to be World Champ - after all he has only won 2X as many GPs this year as Bailiss - who has only ridden in one.  Did Honda win or did Yamaha loose, and will a DR Big be competitive next year... lol

R

[J Hop]

Rossi threw it away yesterday, but his bike wasn't really competitive in the race and he wasn't making up much time on ANYbody and only gained places when over riders crashed, shame.

I like Rossi because he didn't stick with the best team (unlike Doohan, and Schumacher) and he has been riding the wheels off the yamaha to get any results.

I would like to see him on a ducati (he's an italian) eventually.

Well done Bayliss, factory motoGP ride next year for sure.

[john g]

Have to agree with you Rog!, a very lucky yank.....The Dr Big would be competative next year (but only if Rossi rides it!)

[guest7]

I'm keen to hear Rossi's version of events, he just didn't seem to get into teh groove at all.

Yeah, NH would have been a more popular champ if he had stood at the top of the podium more often.

Mind you, hats off to Bayliss, what a ride. I hear he's already signed for another WSB season so he probably won't be a MotoGP starter next year. Nice to see Olivier Jacques getting another go on the Kwak next year, especially after that blinder wildcard ride in China last year.

GC

[xbruby]

I just cant get over the amount of sour grapes that surround Nicky Hayden winning the Moto GP crown!
The guy won it fair and square no matter how many races he actually won or what any anti-Honda joker may say.
Even Rossi had the good grace to make the very point that Hayden's consistency and good race form was the reason he won this year's championship and congratulated him in the appropriate manner.

Don't get me wrong, I admire Rossi, he is probably the best short circuit racer I have ever see. Is he he best racer I have ever seen? No he is not. I had the privilege of watching Hailwood and Agostini and when Rossi takes his precious talent around the IoM at 125 mph plus and wins a race there then I may change my mind.

As for Schumacher somebody seeems to have forgoten that he won his first two world championships in a Benetton and when he went to Ferrari the car was crap. It became a good car because he built a successful team around him, selfish maybe, but the mark of a true (if flawed) champion, definitely.

Andy

[J Hop]

If rossi had stayed with honda, IMO he would have won moto gp the last 2 years very easily, and moto gp would have become almost as boring as formula 1.

Havent forgot ferrari was crap when MS went there, but it has been the best for a long time now, best driver/rider on best machinery = easy wins = boring racing

[guest7]

I just cant get over the amount of sour grapes that surround Nicky Hayden winning the Moto GP crown!

I hate it when somebody talks sense on this forum, it always makes the rest of us look childish :-)

Oh okay, Hayden deserved to win... it's just that Rossi is such a great rider AND a superb fella.

GC

[guest27]

Hi All

OK cards on table.

Wish I had nabbed one of Mat Oxley's "Honda enters Honda wind... Honda loses Honda quits" stickers all them years ago.  Whilst I have more Hondas in the shed than any other make (2) I am not a great fan of the Big H - why - cos I like the underdog and I learnt on a Yamaha....

However - as a man who lost out on a Welsh natinal swimming title because I had only won 3 of 6 races and some one else came second and third in 5 of 6 and thus got more points than me... I really struggle with someone who is good at running mid pack being crowned a champion.  The 25 / 20 / 16 / 13 etc points system addresses this much better than F1 (and far better than the swimming one which I will not go into).  Had no problem with Roberts beating Sheen - both were consumate winners.  Hurt when Spencer beat Roberts - well he was riding a Honda - but they were both great winners etc.  Hayden does not even look like a winner most races.  He appears to be a real nice guy, and unlike Pedrosa actually shows his personality.  But I guess it jst balances out Mamola - he was a great rider who could win on a good bike and on a poor bike, but he never won the Chapionship.  I also guess I feel sour because like Gibernau a couple of years ago Hayden seemed to believe he would win the championship because Rossi was having a bad time - no tbecause he could go out on any sunday and beat him.

As to Ferrari and Schui - well they may not have been winning when he moved to them - but they were and still are by far the best funded team on the grid, where as Yamaha have a much much smaller budget than Honda (British love of the underdog again)  He (MS) moved from "Benetton" - or Renault as they were previously known - so he had won with "Yamaha" and moved to "Honda" - again unlike Damon Hill who moved to Arrows....  BGUt I guess like Rossi taking Burgess with him, Schui took Braun (and Todt?).

Hailwood Vs Rossi.  Mmmmmmmmm Delalio Vs Schofield as the best Rugby forward (I think Schofield was a forward).  Road racing and circuit racing are now very different things.  Once upon a time - when I was very young - a man could take his BSA Goldstar, ride it home from work Friday, compete on it in a trial Friday night, a Scramble on Saturday, A roadrace on Sunday and a circuit race on Bank Holiday Monday before returning to work on Tuesday.  All he needed to do was change the tyres.  However now...  Like Rugby Union and Rugby League roadracing and circuit racing are different beasts.  The Gods of Raoads - Dunlop(X2), DJ etal have not made it big on the Circuits (Big as in winning titles that were not especially made for them) Ditto Circuit racers on the roads.  Hailwood was from a time when the disiplines and the bikes were so similar that you could race on both - well the World Championship covered both.  I am sure that Rossi COULD do a lap close to record speed - but either he would have to devote a number of years learning - like most do - the disipline of road racing.  Simulaly I am sure Lougher (spelling) could do a good job on a MotoGP bike - but neither are really interested - nor good enough - to get the call.  If Hailwood were racing today - apart from being incredibly old compared to the rest of the paddock - he too would have to settle for one or the other - or be an enthusiastic clubman.

The only "modern" rider to excel on both the roads and the circuits as far as I remember was Foggy.

The last person to win more than one WC in a year was (again as far as I remember) Spencer and it is concidered that the strain of doiing the 250/500 double shortened his career.

Who is the better - Hailwood or Rossi - different sports.  Who is the best Wilkinson or Beckham....?


R

[J Hop]

Honda are massive compared to everybody else, Yamaha are massive compared to Ducati. Kawasaki are tiny.

[guest27]

and Ilmor.....

R

[john g]

What does that make me & my garden shed?

[xbruby]

Very slowwww.....

What does that make me & my garden shed?

[xbruby]

Yes, good and interesting point. Had it not been for Catalunya we may well have seen a different Italian lift the crown, now that would have cheered me up!

As for VR being a 'great fella' he is a ruthless mind magician who will stop at nothing to win, ask Gibernau (mind you he didnt have the bottle to chin Rossi when he should have done so no respect there).

Incidentally, Spencer isthe only rider to have won back to back championships in GP (it was chronic tendonitis in his wrists that killed his carrer), it has never been repeated and Rossi has enough sense to know it has little value to his career. The only benefactor would be Yamaha and VR knows this.

Honda are massive compared to everybody else, Yamaha are massive compared to Ducati. Kawasaki are tiny.

[guest27]

Ahhh - true - and Yamaha do not have a 250 worth the salt either.

Thought of another rider who was fab on the shorts and the roads, and given different circumstances could have been "The Best" - Steve Hislop.  Rated by many riders as the best rider Britain has ever produced, with a self destruct button that hampered his career.  mind taking a BSB tank around Donnington faster than Rossi did a MotoGP bike says it all, oh and the right battles he had on the island with Foggy.

Going back to the original point though - yes Nikky did get more points than anyone else - so he is a worthy champion - I just struggle somewhat with a World Crown going to someone who has won less races in his whole career in MotoGP than Rossi or Caparossi won this season.  However roll next year, apparently the 'slower', 'safer' 800's are already lapping close on or as quick as the 990's.  And none of it actually matters as we are all going to die in a global warming disaster...

Oooh happy chap aint I.


Good riding all

R

[xbruby]

Yes, I had forgotten the late, great Steve Hislop. I bought my XBR from a chap in Hawick and on the way home he took me to the SH memorial. Beautiful setting and lovely riding country, well worth a visit.

For what it's worth my all time favourite racer is Ron Haslam, a more modest and nicer bloke you could not wish to meet and he lives very close to me which is why I was gutted for Leon at Brands.
I remember the first time I ever saw Ron race at Donnington on Mal Carters Pharaoh Yamahas and I have never seen a rider ride so hard and fast as Ron, with the possible exception of Graham Crosby on the Moriwaki Kwak. Showing my age now :-)

I know this is completely off the wall but I have been a lifelong F1 fan and I remember when Alain Prost lost the F1 championship to Niki Lauda despite having won more races and scored more points due to the 'ten best results over a season rule' - now that was complete bollocks!

If you ever get the chance take a ride up to the borders to see SH's memorial, a great and worthwhile ride indeed.

Andy