Mid week topic

[guest7]

Should we look down on concours standard restorers who don't ride their machines?

I am sick to the back teeth of going to shows and seeing yet another pristine DBD34 Goldie that doesn't get ridden. Are these people actually depleting the stock of usable classics for us riders?

I think enough is enough and we ought to treat these garden shed anoraks as the vandals they are. My motto is Save our bikes from restoration.

GC

[Andy M]

Should we look down on concours standard restorers who don't ride their machines?

I am sick to the back teeth of going to shows and seeing yet another pristine DBD34 Goldie that doesn't get ridden. Are these people actually depleting the stock of usable classics for us riders?

I think enough is enough and we ought to treat these garden shed anoraks as the vandals they are. My motto is Save our bikes from restoration.

GC

Simple answer: Yes bikes should be ridden.

Long answer: Doesn't it depend what you start with? Mr. Anorak buys a rideable something with slightly faded paint and proceeds to strip it back to the bare metal and then have everything chromed or powder coated. He then stands round it with his mates worrying in case they spot his 1966 tail light bulb in the '65 mounting. Mr. Restorer finds three rusty wrecks in a barn and decides to make one go. That or he finds a nice 50's BSA or Velocette some muppet has already stripped and tried to turn into a BMW twin tourer with early '80's plastic and then dumped in his shed for 15 years. Everything is so trashed he has to strip to the bare metal and then gets a choice of how he'd like his bike to look. Of course each to his own, but the first guy is reducing the riding stock, the second may have actually increased it even if he did end up with a poser of a bike?

I have seen a BSA Bantam with chrome in places you couldn't imagine. I did wonder why! Personally I'd question any bike over 2 years old that didn't have one decent bit of scuffing and at least 2000 miles for every year of it's life, but there again I doubt I'd turn up at the sort of events where people look at stationary old bikes anyway, so perhaps I shouldn't comment.

Andy

[pigafetta]

I think its what you do with a bike when you've finished polishing it that matters. When I see a lovely, shiny old Triumph or what have you, I get as wide-eyed and drooly as the next man, but what I'm actually thinking is 'Oooh, I could have some fun on that!' I'd rather see it blatting past ridden by some old git with a big smile on his face than on a stand. I don't give a crap if its got the wrong tail light or not, I want to ride it. I want to see it moving, thats what its for. These anoraks are not motorcyclists, they're something else. They do their thing and it doesn't interest me very much apart from the fact that they're reducing my chances of getting my mucky hands on one of them old Triumphs.

I'm sure it works both ways. I expect the thought of me getting those lovely old brits all wet and mucky and scratching up the original paint job keeps them awake at night.

Dave b

[Steffan]

The easy answer is that they are invariably for sale so maybe it would be a better move to buy said restorations and ride the proverbial out of them. Alternatively move onto something that is yet to achieve this cult status and ride that.

Steffan

[squirrelciv]

Got a certain amount of sympathy for GC's point here. Not too worried about some tosser filling his garage with motorcycle sculptures, but am very worried at what he's doing to the price of parts for those of us that want to ride the bikes. Bits are getting rare and market forces are driving prices sky high. Mind you could argue that the classic restoration movement instigate re-manufacture of some parts, it's better to just group them all together and slag 'em off :-)

[bullet350]

in my fairly worthless opinion its understandable to have an un ridden concourse machine for two reasons:
 1 the rider is no longer able to ride
 2 the machine is very rare

i fully understand having a mint bike and not riding it in the rain, or near heavy traffic (ignorant and dangerous car drivers), especially as parts are becoming more and more scarce.
i do not understand having a mint bike and not using it, ever!
all you do is deprive riders of the pleasure of using it as prices rocket, not to mention the pleasure of seeing these vehicles on the road.

i was quite happy the other day to meet a t120 triton on my favourite bit of windy road. best of all, my 500cc twin honda only just had enough power to keep up with a 1950's 650!

its people like this man, who can embarrass many a superbike, that generate new interest to keep these bikes alive.

all the time parts are there to keep these vehicles going, ride the wheels off them, rebuild them then do it again!

350bullet

[themoudie]

"The easy answer is that they are invariably for sale so maybe it would be a better move to buy said restorations and ride the proverbial out of them."

Steffan

Aye Steffan,

Not always that easy, did a judging last year, for which the organisation paid me handsomely. Decided to test for compression on a 'restored' Triumph P with lashings of chrome and stainless wheels. None! Did it have any internals fitted? Don't know, but from the lack of any resistance to hand pressure and silence from the intake of 'inbound' air I suspect not. Nil point!

However, the owner 'candidly' assured me in front of his mates, that it had cost many thousands to restore. Did the engine builder have the last laugh?

Off to adjust the 'springette woggle',

Ta ra, Josey.

[guest27]

Like team obsoletes attitude - ride it thrash it and cane it until it cannot be rebuilt any more and then tart it up in a set of empty cases and bung in a show.

Do these people force the price of parts up - well I guess they do if they are not buying pattern - remanufactured parts, else they are just buying a part that would have been needed to get the beast on the road, or maybe replacing a part worn part with NOS, at which point the old part may become available to the market.  What pushes the price up is the interest in the model - used to be able to get a James stinkwheel free with a packet of chips, now more people want them to either look pretty or use.  Either way the bike is brought back to either a pretty or a usable, or both condition.

Taking Manx Nortons as an example - where many are thrashed on race tracks but many are front room adornments, the demand is such that you can build a complete bike from remanufactured parts.  Triumph Twins are pretty much the same if you are happy to mix and match.

I have to hang my head slightly as I have a shed full of bike that do not work, but there again maybe they will one day.  We can be sure that none will be concours standard - I love messing too much - but THIS will drive up the vale of those standard bikes left.  I have destroied 2 T500s and a GT250 so far for my hybrid.  A TZR yam and a Jawa Rotax for another.  The Triton used to have a T120 lump it will go together with a pre-unit lump.  The K4 will soon sprout a set of 32mm Mikkies so the standard CVs will be in the parts box.  A set of RD350 carbs seem to have lost all their jets in the parts box, and the RD250 ones on the K4 (yup they work fine) will soon be split apart for another mindfart project.  All of which makes the value of bog standard bikes go up.

Oh and as for hacksawing a set of RD500 footrest hangers up.......

Sorry guys it is my fault

Not riding them when they could - bugger that, let some other bod ride it for you?

R

[guest27]

Mid week Topic - can I have a G&B 85% solids bar instead?

R

[MrFluffy]

Looking at restored bikes is like looking at stuffed animals in a museum. Seeing a  bird of pray after its been embalmed will never ever come close to walking the dog and seeing one swoop something in a field near you.

When I used to be into brit bikes I'd take going the vintage racing and wandering round the paddock looking at looneys trying to make impossible machines keep up with the more conventional race bikes over yet another boring static show any day. We always used to spend more time wanding round the car park of shows and chatting to other riders and just give the exhibit bikes a quick look, then back to the used stuff.

Ive never sawn up anything rare or factory stock (unless you count taking a mould off my faring on the bimota and sawing the first one out the new mound in two, so you could take it off without removing the forks, eyebrows were raised at that even) , but the worst fate I can think of is selling a bike with subtle improvements to someone who promptly removes them to restore it. Ive done it once and it broke my heart, and I swore never again.
The restorer crowd are just starting to get into the kawasaki turbo's, and there was some thread on a forum I help run where one guy put a picture of his bike up and one of the new breed of born again turbo enthusiasts picked on it because it had a aftermarket fork brace fitted to which the guy answered that he would be taking it off later. I think thats really sad and I find it quite depressing that the guy wants to undo 22 years of tweaks and developed knowledge about the handling, the fork brace is known to stop the 140+ weave that the stock bike suffers from, but hey it might be less useable, but its more "original". Now I think maybe its time to sell my beloved turbo that Ive had for years and move on, especially since they wont let me in earlystocks as its a twinshock only class....

[Steve Lake]

Well, i like looking at them, and like someone said, i then imagine tooling around on it at a track day. the real classic bikes can be seen at the classic racing days.....bikes are organic, all the bikes i've ever owned have been tweeked, modded, fettled.. with all the useful upgrades that add to safety, longevity, reliability etc, to downgrade (and that is what they are doing) a bike to make it 'original' inevery aspect, then just look at it, seems bluddy daft to me.
Not sure if their efforts are depleting spares stocks or not, seemed plenty of stuff about at the last autojumble i went to.

[guest27]

Another place I spend too much time...


http://www.rzrd500.com/500phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=7


Just love the diversity of what is done and the appreciation for it all.  Jackson40 is building his RD500 back to standard - to a point where he has scoured the world and come up with two brand new cranks - Conversely Hybrid had ripped his engine out of the std frame and is building it into a custom made job, and buildinfg fuel injection for it.  Smurph has fuel injected his RZ350 and is working on the RD5, whilst becoming a bit of an expert on swapping out the front ends with R6, YZF750 etc, and modding swing arms to fit.  Even the guy with an RD5 engined quad is welcome and appreciated.

So not all owners of "jap classics" have the chromosexual affliction.

Maybe it is the stroker oil that does it.

R

[Andy M]

So not all owners of "jap classics" have the chromosexual affliction.

Maybe it is the stroker oil that does it.

Explains us MZ riders too :-))

Andy

[guest18]

Nah, NOTHING explains you lot ;P

Never understood the crowd who don't allow period fixes.. like the fork brace on the Kawa turbo. Mid 80's bikes got fork braces, people who ride tritons often like to wear sea boot socks, jeans and a leather jacket because it's right for the bike. In the same way there's nothing wrong with riding or exhibiting an 80's big kawa (or indeed an elsie!!) with buckleboots, jeans a crap paddock jacket and either a Simpson or Aria helmet... and if you're gonna do that then what's wrong with rearsets and a "period" aftermarket exhaust and a fork brace etc etc.
Of all the bikes I remember from that period the only truly standard ones were in the dealers window, EVERYTHING else had some sort of variation, even if it was just the sort of tyres! So are they trying to recreate an 80's bike dealers floor (how awful!!) or are they trying to save some fab bikes in the manner which they were appreciated by real riders??

I've nothing against restoration/museum pieces... but once you stop using it it's just a bit of metal, however pretty. I also happen to like sailing boats and morse communications (amongst many other things!) and there are few things as sad as a drydocked "museum" boat or a key sitting gathering dust.. unless they are a one off and completely irreplaceable it feels like like looking at dead things

Explains us MZ riders too :-))

Andy

[002]

Explains us MZ riders too :-))

Well I've had close on a dozen MZs and a few Jawa/CZ's.
A couple of Enfields,all used and scruffy.
Mind the present Enfield is a little scruffier than the others.
I remember the Zed Cred in the owners magazine...a form of Inverted Snobbery.
I definately think I suffer from That !
Use it and let it evolve.
Thats why I got rid of my Velocette Cafe Racer....Too clean and tidy and I never really used it..!

Jethro

Jethro