Electric "motorcycles"

[Propellor]

Looks like the move to electric vehicles is gathering momentum and is inevitable in the not too distant future. But talk of electric bikes is notably absent from the main media sites. How inevitable is a move to electric bikes? How do we feel about it?

On a technical front, the main problem with electric bikes, as I see it, is packaging sufficient battery capacity for decent power and range and the overall weight. Battery weight will no doubt come down but what can be done to reduce the weight of an electric motor? Copper and iron are the two main ingredients! 

I can't say I'd relish the thought of riding an electric bike purely for pleasure tbh. But then I suppose don't knock it until you've tried it, maybe. I'm guessing as thumpers you probably feel the same?

[SteveC#222]

Range is always going to be the big issue - unless there is a massive increase in battery performance a bike is always going to be very limited ( That said I remember the the Harley 'Peanut'  tanks of the 70's which weren't exactly touring!)

The electric TT bikes prove that the performance is there, but I can't see an electric bike having 'character' or 'Soul' in the same way that you get with some  conventionally propelled bikes. .....purely a commuting option I think.

If electric bikes appeal and you have very deep pockets these are 'the best 10'

https://dgit.com/best-electric-motorcycles-496/

[timbo]

Unfortunately I feel that at 50, I will be one of the last generation to have the pleasure of motorcycling. The powers that be do not want motorcycles on the road at all, and are succeeding in that by gradually regulating motorcycles off the road. Just look at what's involved in getting a motorcycle licence now. There is only a trickle of younger people bothering with motorcycles at all. The government won't ban motorcycles. They don't need to, as it will just wither away. Discuss 

[Andy M]

I could fancy one of these

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/eu/

There is an Australian chap on HUBB who has one. Charges on solar at home and the mains at work. Says its a good ride.

Issues are price, how you deal with worn out batteries (I hate the idea of renting as they'll claim you caused the wear and keep your money) and generating capacity. They are already saying that they'll turn off the car chargers when the grid can't keep up. Imagine getting up on Monday morning after say a big football match or the X Factor final and finding yourself stranded for hours. Or, will everyone buy Honda generators to beat the system!

Andy

[SteveC#222]

Unfortunately I feel that at 50, I will be one of the last generation to have the pleasure of motorcycling. The powers that be do not want motorcycles on the road at all, and are succeeding in that by gradually regulating motorcycles off the road. Just look at what's involved in getting a motorcycle licence now. There is only a trickle of younger people bothering with motorcycles at all. The government won't ban motorcycles. They don't need to, as it will just wither away. Discuss 

Sadly, I think you've hit the nail on the head 

[Moto63]

Yes I would generally have to agree with Tim and Steve on the face of it, now at the age of 54 I genuinely feel very lucky to have come up thro biking the years I have. However I would also go with wot big bro (prop) says in "don't knock it till you've tried it". When one sees the Likes of the mugen at the TT it's pretty clear to see that the performance isn't really going to be the issue, performance +range maybe but I personally think I'd need a bike to have some "soul" to it. But hey like we say you just never know until you try one.
Cheers..Michael

[timbo]

Apologies Prop, by the way. I didn't mean to hijack your thread. I have an open mind towards the electric bikes. I think it is inevitable, but can really only see them as congestion busters in large cities. I don't think governments will allow us to ride them on the open road for fun 

[Steve Lake]

Hey!!.... back to my first love ...  a combination!.... design the batteries flat, so they lie underneath the sidecar. hey presto .. 
AND... no need to ballast the chair when unoccupied ... (as i used to, to stop me flying the 3rd wheel on lefthanders )

[timbo]

And, so long as they are made in a Slavic state, and are unreliable...... 

[Propellor]

Apologies Prop, by the way. I didn't mean to hijack your thread. I have an open mind towards the electric bikes. I think it is inevitable, but can really only see them as congestion busters in large cities. I don't think governments will allow us to ride them on the open road for fun 

Not at all.

Traffic congestion. Another brain teaser!

[Propellor]

I could fancy one of these

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/eu/

There is an Australian chap on HUBB who has one. Charges on solar at home and the mains at work. Says its a good ride.

Issues are price, how you deal with worn out batteries (I hate the idea of renting as they'll claim you caused the wear and keep your money) and generating capacity. They are already saying that they'll turn off the car chargers when the grid can't keep up. Imagine getting up on Monday morning after say a big football match or the X Factor final and finding yourself stranded for hours. Or, will everyone buy Honda generators to beat the system!

Andy

They're suggesting that vehicle chargers will be a kind of stored energy bank. Perfect for smoothing out transients, when taken as a whole "system".

[CrazyFrog]

I'm open minded about electric bikes, but the range and re-charge times are obviously the current( ) issues.

I do have issues with the green credentials though (and I think this also applies to the latest generation of IC powered vehicles that are packed full of complex electronics too). The biggest environmental impact any vehicle has is when it is manufactured. In fact the rule of thumb that I've seen is that the environmental impact of manufacturing is equal to the environmental impact of running the vehicle on fossil fuels for ten years. therefore to be truly green you want the vehicle to stay on the roads for as long as possible. Something like a small light IC engined fibreglass bodied car, with conventional ignition systems, economic to run and simple to fix would seem to fit the bill. Cheap and easy to manufacture, but nobody does.

Current IC vehicles (cars in particular) seem to be highly susceptible to being scrapped quite early in  their potential lives due to problems with the complex electrical systems making them uneconomic to repair. Regardless of the lower emmissions etc, this hardly makes them green. The same of course applies to electric vehicles, but there you also have to add in the environmental impact of making and disposing of the batteries and generating the electricity at some sort of power station. The green thing is a big con IMHO.

I'd like a go on one of the Zero electric bikes though  .

[Propellor]

I'm open minded about electric bikes, but the range and re-charge times are obviously the current( ) issues.

I do have issues with the green credentials though (and I think this also applies to the latest generation of IC powered vehicles that are packed full of complex electronics too). The biggest environmental impact any vehicle has is when it is manufactured. In fact the rule of thumb that I've seen is that the environmental impact of manufacturing is equal to the environmental impact of running the vehicle on fossil fuels for ten years. therefore to be truly green you want the vehicle to stay on the roads for as long as possible. Something like a small light IC engined fibreglass bodied car, with conventional ignition systems, economic to run and simple to fix would seem to fit the bill. Cheap and easy to manufacture, but nobody does.

Current IC vehicles (cars in particular) seem to be highly susceptible to being scrapped quite early in  their potential lives due to problems with the complex electrical systems making them uneconomic to repair. Regardless of the lower emmissions etc, this hardly makes them green. The same of course applies to electric vehicles, but there you also have to add in the environmental impact of making and disposing of the batteries and generating the electricity at some sort of power station. The green thing is a big con IMHO.

I'd like a go on one of the Zero electric bikes though  .

I look at it this way. Electric vehicles are only as green as the power generation source anyhow. The term "green" is somewhat confusing in itself, but if we concentrate on co2 emissions then if the entire grid was supplied by renewables there would be no co2 emitted either in driving electric vehicles or in making them. So the effort in cutting co2 needs to start at the point of generation.

When it comes to cutting what I see as actual pollution, particulates and nox etc then that's a connected issue but separate  from the co2 issue.

[Propellor]

Plus you're going to have to emit co2 to make machines that don't emit co2! The process gotta start  somewhere tho.

[CrazyFrog]

Plus you're going to have to emit co2 to make machines that don't emit co2! The process gotta start  somewhere tho.

Yes, exactly. I'm not suggesting we should ignore pollution, either of particulates or CO2 but it just annoys me that modern hybrid / electric vehicles are sold as a 'green' transport solution, whereas the truth, as always, is far more complex than that.