Sunday discussion - Would you go electric?

[SteveC#222]

You can be done for being drunk in charge of a bicycle But ( and don't quote  me) I don't think it can effect your driving license.

[Propellor]

Scorshh. Scorsh I can... hic.... zzcontrol thiz mo der skooder occifer hic. 

[timbo]

Under the affluence of inchahol your honour 

[Steve Lake]

Yes Steve, that's how I understand it, and the Toff on the Sinclair C5 contested that very point, and kept his licence..... but.... it's more than likely that DVLA/authorities have plugged that loophole.... might be worth checking somewhere... like wiki.. or something

[johnr]

the law is quite complex on the fine definition of what is an electrically assisted bicycle and what is an electric motorcycle, its all down to design speeds and weights. as has been said, 18kph iirc for the current law, and there are some distinctions betweeen electrical assistance, in that you need to keep pedaling and the motor assists, or electrically powered, where you just twist the grip and its away. my daughter has a powabyke which can be switched between the two settings and can do an electric power only speed of nearly 15mph, with electrically assisted speed as quick as you can pedal it. the law was changed last year to complicate stuff a bit, and you can still buy electric assisted mountain bikes on ebay with a top speed getting on for 30mph, technically its a moped and should have tax insurance mot, reg doc, etc, but how does plod at the roadside prove that?
as for electric bikes, id have one if i needed to commute on a bike every day, simply so i can then save my normal bike for the weekends and holidays, saving wear and tear as well as running costs. and as ive got 4kw of solar power at home, i can charge it with green power too.

[guest564]

I love riding it myself without a helmet and the looks people give you for NOT wearing a helmet and of course being stopped by the old bill and then explaining to him it is legal and showing proof.

My girlfriend's son had one of these but stopped using it because of the abuse he got from people when he was riding on cycle paths. He found it too slow for road use, I think people will expect a bicycle to be doing 15mph but have less patience when it looks like a moped.

I have an electric bicycle but it weighs more than an old butcher's bike, despite its alloy frame.

[Propellor]

Electric motors need lots of iron and copper. Poorly cooled electric motors need to be large. But solve the cooling problem and the size shrinks a lot.

I believe some industrial motors where space is an absolute premium, have hollow copper windings. Cooling oil is pumped through. They are considerably smaller than a motor with solid windings and rated at the same power.

Water cooling the casing would help, but the windings are where the heat really builds up. I guess.

[xbr500f]

I've had a fully electric car for the last 20 months. It costs me less to lease than my last car (a Skoda Yeti) did. The lease is £230 a month over 2 years for 24,000 miles.

It costs about £1.20 to charge up the battery on Economy 7 overnight. A full charge has lasted over 90 miles on numerous ocassions although I try to stick to 85 miles (or less) between charges. For 1000 miles a month it costs me about £18 in electricity costs at home.

The furthest I have travelled was from Edinburgh to St Ives (with a detour to South Wales). Charging on the motorway services cost me £0. Largest one day trip was Portsmouth back to Edinburgh, which I think was about 520 miles. Obviously there were a few stops to charge but they coincided with comfort breaks anyway. I've also taken the car to Silverstone where I rescued another (diesel) car by giving them a jump start from the 12v battery on my car. The look on the drivers face was priceless.

Servicing costs are less than £70 every 18,000 miles.

The way these cars pick u speed away from the traffic lights is addictive. I've easily kept up with Range Rover sports and also a few bikes. A TT600 rider was shocked to see me keep up with him, at least for a little while, away from the lights.

Still not convinced about Electric engines, then give yourself a treat and take a test drive of a Tesla Model S . I'm not so convinced about Electric bikes as yet, especially with the high purchase cost. I wouldn't mind a shot of one though.

[xbr500f]

I forgot to say that my car is a Nissan Leaf. Goes without saying that I would love to lease a Tesla with it's greater acceleration and battery capacity but the cost it too prohibitive for me just now.

[timbo]

Thank you, great to have real world info from the horses mouth. Very interesting 

[xbr500f]

Thanks Timbo.

One point I should have made is that when the car is serviced you get a factory trained mechanic to carry out the work who must have a certificate for high voltages. Those 400 volts lurking around the orange wires and the 24 kilowatt battery pack do not take prisoners. Something as simple as a brake pad change could kill.

For a witty perspective on electric cars check out Robert Llewellyn's (presenter on scrap heap challenge and red dwarf) videos on you tube. On one you'll find out that electric cars have roughly been around for as long as petrol cars. They were used as taxi's where the battery trays could be swapped out in 4 minutes for a fully charged set. In the olden days there weren't many petrol stations so ICE drivers would get range anxiety😄

What killed off the electric car then? Apparently Henry Ford's wife did not like the starting handle to get the ICE working. The electric starter was the solution. Electric starters killed off the battery powered car! Not any more ..... those electric engines are far more efficient. As for them being too quiet - I've been beside the road when my wife was driving past in the Leaf. With the road noise from the tyres it was a noisy as every other car going past.

[SteveC#222]

The Radio 5 programme gave a very similar impression - the current range of electric cars are very useable with some planning but we are still a few years and a couple of battery generations away from them being the norm though they will definitely be so in the future.

My main worry with the current range wouldn't be so much with the range of the batteries - most journeys are less than 40-50 miles - but with the life of the battery pack. Any re chargable battery system has a finite life before capacity drops off and they must cost a lot of money to replace - must be in the £0000's - while my 100,000 mile van and car still have some value, surely an electric car nearing the point of needing the battery pack replacing would be worth practically nothing? ( rather like trying to sell a car with a knacked engine & gearbox). If so they are going to have a relatively short lifespan compared to a conventional car ( or 17 year old van).

Also looking at them from a commuting point of view - I assume that if you use the lights ( evening commute) that would reduce the range?

Still don't think electric motorcycle are going to be viable ( beyond commuting scooters) until they come up with a smaller more powerful battery with a short recharge time.

[guest2020]

I wouldn't be interested in a electric bike as I love tinkering about with engines (2 or 4 stroke) and get as much enjoyment out of that as I do riding my bikes. However, for a car, I'd be tempted, cheap running costs etc sounds good to me 

[Propellor]

Did I understand right, that the power for the leaf is 24kw?

[xbr500f]

Yep, the battery pack is 24kw with 21kw of usable power. The lights and all the usual electrics are fed by the normal 12v battery. The drain by the lights is negligible really. The electric motor and the heater are the biggest users of power. There is no alternator to charge up the 12v battery, that is done by an invertor fed by the 24kw battery pack.

As for the life of the battery. I know a taxi firm in St Austells who have a fleet of Nissan Leafs. One has gone over 100,000 miles and I think it has only recently dropped one bar on the battery display. Each bar is 8%. Thei firm have their own rapid chargers and use these 6/7 times each day to charge the taxi's.

Taking everything into consideration the Leaf has saved me over £4,000 when compared to the Yeti. Other benefits are that I don't have to wait for the engine to warm up before using the heater. In icy weather I defrost the car by using a phone App. No more scraping the windscreens and fighting with frozen doors