Sunday discussion - Would you go electric?

[SteveC#222]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p039d5x9 ( sorry can't post the video direct)

"Biker Adrian Chiles gives electric bike a test drive

Would you buy an electric vehicle? With more than 40,000 electric and hybrid cars and vans on the UK’s roads, it seems more people than ever are prepared to make the change.

Lawrence Marazzi, co-founder of British electric motorbike maker Saietta, says Britain is “going through a real change moment” – for two-wheelers as well as four-wheel vehicles.

“It’s like the moment that everybody adopted mobile phones or the moment everybody adopted the internet," he says.

But what are the bikes actually like to ride? 5 live Daily’s Adrian Chiles agreed to swap his petrol guzzling model for Saietta’s electric racing bike on a test track in Oxfordshire.

This clip is from a 5 live Daily special coming up on 1 December 2015."

Personally no -

While I can see the 'green' benefits it's only as green as the power source charging it up!

Also ( no doubt) range will be an issue - a lot of people use their bikes for long mileages at weekends so 100 mile or so range isn't going to be much use.

Lastly the noise - or lack of it. Takes half the fun away and no-one will hear you coming - there use to be a slogan " loud pipes save lives" and to some extent I think that is true.

What do we think?

[xbally]

Very interesting..........I wouldn't like to commit myself until I've had a go.....I certainly wouldn't be prepared to pay the premium price you have to pay for an electric car though.

[Steve Lake]

there's 2 issues that currently stop me considering an electric vehicle, price (predominantly batteries), and capable distance on one charge, and charge time. oops that's 3.

so the whole thing revolves (hmmm) round the power source.... it'll all take off (hmmmmmm), when battery development makes a break through, and once development costs have been covered.

[Smithy]

Never. No. Not a chance. They will have to prize my dead, cold hands off the bars of a proper bike before I ever thought electric. My lifelong love affair has been with the internal combustion engine not electricity.

I think that states my case adequately.

[Andy M]

No problem with it. Don't care about noise or having a different tool kit.

It will however have to improve on the performance of internal combustion. I want a 300 mile range, 5 minute recharge available in every town, a 15 year life before I have any major work to do and then I want to do that myself.

Not that I'm particularly green but the jury is still out on total life effect. Scrapping working petrol vehicles to make batteries that contain lead and last 5 years seems wasteful.

Andy

[Propellor]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p039d5x9 ( sorry can't post the video direct)

"Biker Adrian Chiles gives electric bike a test drive

Would you buy an electric vehicle? With more than 40,000 electric and hybrid cars and vans on the UK’s roads, it seems more people than ever are prepared to make the change.

Lawrence Marazzi, co-founder of British electric motorbike maker Saietta, says Britain is “going through a real change moment” – for two-wheelers as well as four-wheel vehicles.

“It’s like the moment that everybody adopted mobile phones or the moment everybody adopted the internet," he says.

But what are the bikes actually like to ride? 5 live Daily’s Adrian Chiles agreed to swap his petrol guzzling model for Saietta’s electric racing bike on a test track in Oxfordshire.

This clip is from a 5 live Daily special coming up on 1 December 2015."

Personally no -

While I can see the 'green' benefits it's only as green as the power source charging it up!

Also ( no doubt) range will be an issue - a lot of people use their bikes for long mileages at weekends so 100 mile or so range isn't going to be much use.

Lastly the noise - or lack of it. Takes half the fun away and no-one will hear you coming - there use to be a slogan " loud pipes save lives" and to some extent I think that is true.

What do we think?

I pretty much go along with you across the board Steve. Thinking about electric vehicles in general I could see the biggest benefit being city use. Benefits (as I see them) being no local pollution, very good low rpm torque from the motor and (I assume)  no need for a gearbox (at the speed range typical in city use) and the fact that refilling is done while I sleep. All these benefits pretty much become a hindrance once out of the city and onto the open road and/or wanting to cover distance.

Regarding pollution, as you say that's only as good as the power source, but to be fair a proportion of this is "green". I'm hesitant to classify nuclear power as "green" though! Regarding efficiency, that's ultimately only as good as the power source, but I'm betting that, overall, the efficiency is higher than an "personal" internal combustion engine.

Another, more philosophical point is, if we all converted to electric vehicles overnight, the power stations wouldn't cope. So we'd need a lot more of them. I think it's good to have a balance of electric and non electric vehicles.

From a totally selfish angle, given that the vast majority of my motorcycling is undertaken for enjoyment, there's no way I'd want an electric bike! But then if I was commuting daily through a city I'd say yes I would want one, but only specifically for that purpose.

Good topic for a lively discussion!

Cheers

Andy.

[SteveC#222]

I can see the argument for a scooter style city commuter bike where mileage would probably be reasonably low and the instant 'power' would be an advantage at the lights. I still think the lack of noise could be dangerous and you would need an accurate gauge of battery life, from experience of lithium ion's ( on my camera) it seems to be full-full-full-full-full-full-dead.  Also weight and cost of replacement could be an issue - I don't think many of the current electric/hybrid cars have been on the road long enough yet to require replacement batteries which I imagine  would be well into 4 figures.

[Andy M]

I had a Honda hybrid as a company car. The tax was better than diesel and performance fine. The company later banned them as it was doing 30 mpg on unleaded rather than 55 on diesel and the hire company upped the rental once they realised a 4 year old 100000 mile hybrid was worth about 2p while a diesel still has auction value.

Higher fuel use and recycling the used batteries doesn't seem green. I guess the pollution tests don't allow for the fact you can use a "city" car for cross country if you arent paying anything except the company car tax.

Andy

[Richard]

Yes, but doubt I could afford it given the premium.

Mind you I'm a tight old git who runs around on two stroke MZs.

[Moto63]

"Loud pipes save lives"  here ,here. Great example of this was this weekend, just got back from weekend away in (not so sunny) whitby. The amount of people that walked out in front of our car (a reasonably quite petrol merc) while driving thro the town centre was quite frankly breathtaking. If I,d av been on/in something with a fruity noise I,d bet at least 90% of those people would av heard me coming and not stepped off the kerb, or at least looked first. (Which none did)
Regarding the electric bike debate/topic the lack of noise alone would stop me buying one, personally for me a big part of my biking enjoyment is going up and down the gearbox and listening to the engine/exhuast note "singing" away beneath me. I like most can understand the "green" issues involved but until I,m forced down that particular route I,m afraid i,ll be sticking to something with a good ol fashioned fossil fuel burning engine. Preferably one with a fruity pipe attached to it. (Oh and possibly a supercharger, looking forward to seeing joolz,s project)  Got to say tho what a good/interesting topic, looking forward to seeing/reading how it goes.  Cheers.  Michael

[JOOLZ]

Im not a huge fan of electric vehicles, I can see the benefits from an engineering point of view but the technology for batteries is still very poor with long charge times and short duration, they are also hideously expensive, and unless its being charged from a green source of power, you are just moving the exhaust from the vehicle to a central power generating facility.

[Propellor]

On a slightly related topic.  Regenerative braking. Or even just the process of slowing down for that matter......

Any thoughts?

[Andy M]

Makes perfect sense on a vehicle that already has the hardware and would have a retarder anyway. Busses for example.

They do stupid things though. There is a certain hybrid bus that needs the Diesel running for the heating and air con 

Andy

[Propellor]

Could the electric motor double up as a generator?

Apply throttle, you draw current from the battery.

Throttle off and you put it back. Apply the brake lever and you put even more back.

The conventional brake would need to kick in at a certain pressure I guess.

Dunno.

[Steve Lake]

Erm.... isn't that KERS (as used in F! cars)?... can either store kinetic energy in a flywheel, or to batteries...

has been promoted on Top Gear for quite a while... still, who takes any notice of willy wonker Clarkeson....