Author Topic: Top dead centre  (Read 1197 times)

Propellor

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2015, 05:39:16 AM »




......We're taught this stuff at school so clearly somebody thinks the ideas or principles are pretty fundamental to our society.

Or are we? I was taught it between '75 and '76, but to assume they still teach it was wrong of me. Is Euclid finally dead and buried?

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/574/full
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Andy M

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2015, 05:27:50 PM »
I wrote a method sheet for graduate trainees. It shows a mouth, nosed and lungs and has arrows with the words IN, OUt, REPEAT.....

Many aren't taught to sharpen the pencil - Elven Safety Mite ( and they might get upset) .

 ::)

Andy

Propellor

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2015, 10:28:06 AM »
Centre of gravity. This seems to be another example of the phenomenon.

It's not actually where the mass is, but a POINT in space where the mass can be considered to have effect. A point! How small is this point? ...... Aargh. Infinitely small. So of zero area then!

Hee Hee. Makes yer think.

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Oldtimer

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2015, 12:16:30 AM »
I think the piston speed gets to maximum velocity midway between tdc & bdc and will be stationary at the point of which the piston changes it's direction of travel. Now the time elapsed depends on the distance of the crankpin to the flywheel center, ie a long stroke and large flywheel the piston would be traveling slower to the opposite end of the scale -short stoke small flywheel. Oh what the f*** does it matter?????
Mike
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Propellor

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2015, 05:46:14 AM »
I think the piston speed gets to maximum velocity midway between tdc & bdc and will be stationary at the point of which the piston changes it's direction of travel. Now the time elapsed depends on the distance of the crankpin to the flywheel center, ie a long stroke and large flywheel the piston would be traveling slower to the opposite end of the scale -short stoke small flywheel. Oh what the f*** does it matter?????

Im not sure it occurs at half stroke. Half stroke certainly doesn't equate to 90 degrees rotatation.

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/piston_motion_basics.htm

It's difficult to argue that at tdc and bdc the piston speed isn't at zero, but my point was that the length of time it is at zero appears also to be zero! For the reasons I've put forward (which may be wrong).

The position of maximum velocity, which equates to zero acceleration, is just as strange. That too apparently occurs for zero length of time. Regardless of rpm.

Anywhere on a pure sine wave will occur for zero length of time, because there are no straight portions on a sine wave. By definition, anything occurring as a sine wave is constantly changing so it is never at a value for any time! Weird. It seems to be the nature of geometry. But you can see the phenomenon everywhere where positional contrivances are in place. Distance measurement, for example, and even time itself. For example, how short is the present? Zero! There is no present. So what are we experiencing, the past or the future? Weird ain't it?

Or is it just me.....

 ;D
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Oldtimer

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2015, 01:25:03 AM »
It's like the old saying if you are traveling at the speed of light and you put your headlights on what do you see?
Mike
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Propellor

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2015, 05:42:20 AM »
It's like the old saying if you are traveling at the speed of light and you put your headlights on what do you see?

I read that we are to treat the speed of light as a kind of cosmic speed limit. Nothing can go faster. So one version of logic says that if you're already going at the speed limit and you try to project something else forwards it won't move. But then there's the logic based on newtons discovered laws (or was it Galileo), which says that moving things are relative. Is it the same kind of question as the firing a bullet forwards from a gun when you're travelling at exactly the same speed as a bullet fired from a gun would travel? Or how about if you fired it backwards?

Can we treat light as an object?

What we see is light reflected anyway, so there would have to be an object for it to bounce off for us to see anything. What about the Doppler shift? What would happen to that?

The bullet scenario I can get my head around. The light scenario I find tricky!

What is your take on it?
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Propellor

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2015, 06:02:55 AM »
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CrazyFrog

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2015, 04:53:09 PM »
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Steve Lake

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2015, 08:00:22 PM »
my head hurts.... :(

Propellor

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2015, 08:32:35 PM »
http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae169.cfm

 ??? Does all that mean I can keep my cake and eat it? I do hope so......

Where light is concerned I guess maybe that is one way to put it!  ;D

As for quantum theory, you can have several cakes and eat em all at the same time in different places. Or summat like that.  ;D

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CrazyFrog

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2015, 07:56:47 AM »
As for quantum theory, you can have several cakes and eat em all at the same time in different places. Or summat like that.  ;D

Trouble is, they aren't real cakes, they are just the probability of a cake being there.  :(
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Propellor

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Re: Top dead centre
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2015, 08:13:24 AM »
As for quantum theory, you can have several cakes and eat em all at the same time in different places. Or summat like that.  ;D

Trouble is, they aren't real cakes, they are just the probability of a cake being there.  :(

It's no more weird than lines that aren't really there and the boundary of which is elusive. In one way quantum seems to make the precise boundary of these lines make more sense. In other words, there is no such thing as a precise boundary.

Anyway, the probability of a chocolate cake is quite sufficient to have me reaching for the percolator. ;D

Cheers.

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