Author Topic: Why ?  (Read 2194 times)

Steve H

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Why ?
« on: July 27, 2011, 09:00:17 PM »
Are the Tokico sliding calipers fitted to Suzukis so Shite ?

002

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 11:31:49 PM »
Are the Tokico sliding calipers fitted to Suzukis so *******e ?

Dont forget the Nissin Shite,Brembo Bollox and all the others that stop sliding,then seize !

Jethro
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Mark

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 06:04:16 AM »
And the Grimeca sh1te
There exists a set of people who believe 2>4

Steve H

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2011, 07:02:56 AM »
Its the rubber grommet which the slider pin goes through, the aluminium around the grommet corrodes so the pin gets tight, which stops the slider sliding. DR had the same problem. STUPID design.

Richard

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 08:14:09 AM »

And the pivoting caliper ATE design on /7 Beemers that just don't work.
Note to Self: Shiney side goes UP.

Mark

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2011, 09:42:11 AM »

And the pivoting caliper ATE design on /7 Beemers that just don't work.

Agreed, got to be the worst.
There exists a set of people who believe 2>4

002

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2011, 11:14:17 PM »
They all use that design Steve ! Absolute Shite !

BMW ATE calipers Bollocks !  Honda had a similar idea aswell.....Guess What ?   
That was total tosh too !

Jethro
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johnr

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2011, 09:01:04 AM »

And the pivoting caliper ATE design on /7 Beemers that just don't work.

utter cobblers! the ate pivoting caliper works just fine when its set up as bmw reccomend. it often gets the blame for bm boxer brakes being shite, but the truth is more connected to the vanity of the design team at bmw rather than any fault with the ate caliper. ive had several beemers, and whilst the brakes arent upto modern standards its not the ate caliper thats to blame, but the disk itself. bmw at the time couldnt bring themselves to fit iron disks to their bikes, cos when they got wet they rusted. not a huge problem, first aplicationof the brake would clear it, but bmw wanted the bikes to be clean and rust free. so the bikes got stainless steel disks, these were worsened by heat because they had a tendency to crack if they were overheated too often. ive ridden an ate equipped bmw with cast iron rotors fitted to the stock disk centres, and the difference is such that you can easily lock the front wheel in the dry.

the honda one was pretty pants, but not as bad as the cable operated caliper on a pivoting mount as on the cb100 amongst others.

Steve H

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2011, 10:41:42 AM »

And the pivoting caliper ATE design on /7 Beemers that just don't work.

utter cobblers! the ate pivoting caliper works just fine when its set up as bmw reccomend. it often gets the blame for bm boxer brakes being *******e, but the truth is more connected to the vanity of the design team at bmw rather than any fault with the ate caliper. ive had several beemers, and whilst the brakes arent upto modern standards its not the ate caliper thats to blame, but the disk itself. bmw at the time couldnt bring themselves to fit iron disks to their bikes, cos when they got wet they rusted. not a huge problem, first aplicationof the brake would clear it, but bmw wanted the bikes to be clean and rust free. so the bikes got stainless steel disks, these were worsened by heat because they had a tendency to crack if they were overheated too often. ive ridden an ate equipped bmw with cast iron rotors fitted to the stock disk centres, and the difference is such that you can easily lock the front wheel in the dry.

the honda one was pretty pants, but not as bad as the cable operated caliper on a pivoting mount as on the cb100 amongst others.

Odd, most manufacturers seem to be able to produce calipers/pad materials that work with stainless discs.

Andy M

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2011, 03:12:37 PM »
15 years as a brake engineer, including two BMW related projects (cars) here. The reason the callipers stick and misbehave is down to the priorities of the vehicle manufacturers and hence the materials:

1. Must meet minimum legal performance ; can't sell without it.
2. Must feel safe to some ****ed up MCN employee who's got to ride it at least a mile to qualify for the next all expenses paid junket to Spain or Bali.
=3. Must be cheaper to buy than the last one.
=3. Must meet the latest showroom trends, so no rust, radial mounting, lots of slots and holes
4. (New Entry) must be good enough not to result in internet chatroom damnation, but needn't be so good as to stop the manufacturer selling a £500, nineteen calliper floating tripple disk upgrade.
5. Must eat pads at a rate sufficient to satisfy the aftermarkets sales target.
6. 80% of the first production run should still be MOT passes when the model goes out of production (rebuilds allowed).


They don't care less about 5 year old bikes.

BMW have a bigger problem. You get a job there because Uncle Herman had a job there. You go into the brakes section because old Werner retired a week after you started. You work there for 50 years and never talk to anyone outside the brakes team, especially sales. You change as little as possible. When some bloke in a suit tells you stainless is required you say "Zis is not possible, cast iron is best" because that's what old Werner told you to say. When the suit says stainless is required or the company will go bust again you are shocked and ask why. To prevent the corrosion that will cause the destruction of the company, you do not pick the barely rust proof cast monkey metal Yamaha chose, you pick medical grade 316. This has the braking properties of a greased apfel strudel, but at least the company did not go bust again.

A brake engineer would pick plain cast iron and the callipers would be smaller as a result. Marketing would hate it. The brakes on our bikes are the equivalent of Primark copies of red Gucci Stilletoes not the army boots we really want.

Andy
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 04:17:26 PM by Andy M »

andy230

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2011, 03:54:11 PM »
 ;D

Are we ranting??!    :-*

a

Richard

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2011, 04:00:33 PM »

Loving it.
Note to Self: Shiney side goes UP.

Mark

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2011, 06:11:35 PM »
;D

Are we ranting??!    :-*

a

Or you go and buy a De Lorean when what you really need is a sensible family car. :D
There exists a set of people who believe 2>4

guest24

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2011, 07:50:37 PM »
On my CBR400 last century, I replaced its worn out OE discs with some 'cheap' pattern iron ones. As detailed above, they grew some temporary rust on the swept area, but by golly they worked well! I agree, aesthetically they were not as pretty as the Honda ones, but I liked them.

andy230

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2011, 02:04:46 PM »
;D

Are we ranting??!    :-*

a

De Lorean when what you really need is a sensible family car. :D

It will be sensible.  When she divorces me and I get the kid for saturday afternoon!!   ;D

It is up on stands just now.  No rust on the body, but I just managed to catch the chassis in time.  Epoxy dipping mild steel is great idea.  Till clutch fluid leaks on it, and the owner changes the master cylinder, and thinks "Oh thats fine"

2 years later andy is chipping off soft plastic and getting out the POR-15!  Honestly, another year and I'd be making up plates and going to see the welder man.

Oh, and the duff steering?  Ball joints, wheel bearings, steering column bush.  All available and not too dear.

Fiat 127 (also Yugo 45!!) front wheel bearings.  not exactly exclusive, eh?!

cheers

a