winter rider stuff

[guest7]

All good stuff and to summarise (as I see it)

Wind protection is essential, muffs and screen are ideal and legshields are well worth fitting too.

Buy clothing that is loose-fitting (but not too baggy).

Heated grips are de rigeur

The one thing you shouldn't skimp on is good boots. I also use Daytona boots (roadstars) and they are the best value for money I've ever spent in biking (although they are £240+ to start with). I made the mistake of buying a pair that fitted snugly, but my second pair are a size up and they are perfect with a couple of pairs of good (thin) socks.

Eat well for energy to aid body warmth.

My personal choice for riding kit in very cold and/or wet weather is thin layers of warm clothing under a goretex layer. If it's wet I put on a one-piece nylon rainsuit. All my fancy Dainese Goretex gear works really well, but after a couple of hours of the outer being wet it starts to wick up the cuffs and ankles. It's better to delay this by wearing a thin waterproof outer layer... although it makes pee stops a trial  

For my last two winter rallies I have worn a body warmer over my goretex jacket It stops the wind getting to your jacket zip and gives a little more warmth to your torso:

I use this as a sort of sacrificial layer, it catches all the crud and light rain (and still fits under the rainsuit if the rain gets heavy enough for me to put it on).

To be honest the only reason I wear my biking goretex trousers and jacket is because of the crash protection that's built in. The collar on the jacket doesn't actually do up very well, which it seems to have in common with most other modern winter motorcycle jackets.

Did anyone mention a balaclava? I use a very good one made by Dainese, it's thin enough to be comfortable under a lid, but still warm. It's also long enough to tuck into your collar to stop the worst of all draughts, that nasty cold one that gets down the back of your neck. I also have a Frank Thomas (spit!) one that is nowhere near as good so I'd say make sure you get a nice one and spend a bit more to get it if necessary.

Thin silk undergloves are great at keeping your hands warm.

From  my experience I'd say that if you stop the windblast (screen, muffs, legshields, etc.) then you are more than halfway to being comfortable on the bike. Address these first then find clothing to suit.

GC

[robG]

Boots wise, I'll continue to use Altbergs though have pressed a pair of Lidl boots into winter duty. My last pair of Altberg Field and fell lasted around six years continuous use, both for work and bike. That works out less than twenty pounds a year.They are rebuildable therefore may well be sent off, to the factory, for resoling and relining, for the cost of fifty quid. In addition, I now have a new pair .

Apologies Richard, Aldi not Lidl. As above, I'm wearing a pair of their boots back and fore to work and given the weather recently they have so far failed to leak. This is despite the dog eating one of them.Definately a well spent £29:99. The only problem with them is the sole is very soft and they can be painful when placing the model on the centre stand.

I also, like others make use of a muff around the neck. I prefer this to a balaclava.

Rob.

[guest18]

Yup, in agreement with 99.9% of the above, the other 0.1% is personal preferrence!

I use a thermal long sleeved T shirt under sometimes a normal T-shirt and a "norge" pile shirt over the top. All cheap and available in surplus stores  snugpack sleeka jackets are brilliant though I tend to save them for something to wear once I've arrived (a black one looks more "normal" and less bikey if that bothers you).
I use a normal ballistic nylon bike jacket as it's warm and has some crash protection, you *will* want a cheap pvc waterproof jacket to go over the top though as the manf's all lie, they are NOT waterproof! Try millets or similar, you want, cheap, non-breathable and expendable ;-) same for the overtrousers...
Talking of the lower half, as already pointed out tights are very good, and if it's very bad stick some long johns over the top. Trousers are up to you but avoid jeans as they hold water and get cold, and chafe(!)
Socks, many and loose and boots for me are Altberg.
I used to use a scarf but now I use a neck tube that came free with a bike mag a few years ago, tucks into the helmet and down into my collar and eliminates all draughts 
Heated grips.. oh yes, but ensure your bike/battery can deal with it, and handlebar muffs may not be stylish but they are your friends, just ensure you fit some sort of brush guard first to avoid the clutch / brake dragging and spoiling your day 

Finally, any sort of wind deflection will help, screen, handguards, fairing, legshields, whatever. Have a look at some Elefantentreffen photos for a host of homebrewed ideas 

[guest868]

For a long trip I don a fleece onesie; I use a Crewsavers one designed to be worn under sailing drysuits, but you can also use caving onesies. Really does help keep the warmth in.
Aside from that, lambswool insoles and making sure I've got a buff or something around my neck to keep the heat in. Never had heated grips, and don't get on with muffs.

[guest18]

Hadn't used heated grips until this winter.. maybe I'm getting old but I'm converted! 
Good point about the one piece thermals, worth a look at "diving" websites for the thermal suits designed to be worn under drysuits, a bit bulky but *very* warm. (Commonly nicknamed "wooly bear" suits for some reason?!?)

Edited to add: Andy suggests "For the winter rallies, it's unfortunately better not to get ****ed on the gluhwein or drink gallons of coffee, both dehydrate and make digestion less efficient. For older gents, consider half an aspirin, thinner blood gets round easier. There are side effects such as more mess when you cut yourself, so read up/see the quack before you try, but it does have the desired effect."

Whilst I bow to your experience over winter rallies and whatnot mate, I must add a little note of caution here, the principal problem with alcohol and cold, (in the trainings I've had), is that amongst other things it thins the blood a little, like aspirin, and so retains circulation to the extremities longer. Whilst this *sounds* like a good thing, what it means is that you lose core temperature faster and your body is less able to protect your core temp by closing down the blood supply to the less critical extremities. If you're sitting in below freezing air at 60/70mph for any length of time you *are* at risk of hypothermia, deliberately thinning your blood by any means is increasing that risk so I would have to counsel against it. (google Vasoconstriction, and hypothermia for more info) After all, can you tell the difference in yourself between enduring the cold on a freezing motorway and getting a bit drowsy because you're tired or getting a bit drowsy because you're becoming dangerously hypothermic? (bet you can't.. it's like O2 starvation, obvious to an outsider but very difficult to identify when it happens to you). I've seen people become dangerously hypothermic in the UK in a surprisingly short time, it is a real risk on long bike runs in the winter and you probably wont be aware of it happening to you if it does, 
Oh and hydrate with warm fluids, cold ones take too much energy to heat up. Hot fruit juices are good, as is hot chocolate and similar.

Everything else is smack on the money though, oh and another quick addition, keep a woolly/good fleece hat to hand and as soon as the helmet comes off whack it on your head. Makes a surprising difference

[Richard]

You just reminded me that I still have my woolly bear in the attic, haven't worn it on the bike for years but may drag it out and back into service.  That under the Norgie could be spectacularly warm.

Richard

[robG]

Richard,
      Does this mean we will see the green herringbone one piece undergarment and matching flat cap at the Dragon this year?
 

Rob

[Richard]

The flat cap is almost definite, I just wore it to the supermarket.  If it is guaranteed to just snow though I would wear the fleece, or the real, cossack hat.  Not very waterproof though.

One should always wear a hat.

Once off the bike at winter rallies and the like what is the favoured headgear then ?

And I know what the elefantisti will write............

Richard

[robG]

I think this could become a theme for the Rally.

Shall we have an undertaking for members to attend the Rally in whatever headgear they see fit, traditional or otherwise. We could perhaps move away from the wooly hat brigade and adopt flat caps, trilbys etc. I know Graham may have a bowler tucked away.
The smoking jackets went down well a few years back.

Shall we see what we can do?

Rob.

[squirrelciv]

I'm up for that. Now where did I put that dearstalker??

[Andy M]

. If you're sitting in below freezing air at 60/70mph for any length of time you *are* at risk of hypothermia, deliberately thinning your blood by any means is increasing that risk so I would have to counsel against it. (google Vasoconstriction, and hypothermia for more info)  head. Makes a surprising difference

The best hypothermia test I know is to put the letters of the last car numberplate that passed you into order. So, Y407KCB has to be read 047BCKY. If you start umming and erring and running through the alphabet you need to stop. The last time I "failed" the test was back in 2004 heading up the hill towards Regensburg. GC decided to stop too and we were both stupidly cold.

The thin blood thing is a double edged sword. Poor circulation means cold hands and feet sooner than needs be with ultimately frostbite. Same goes for tight clothing. If the core is warm and the feet are stuck out in the slipstream with no circulation you feel cold sooner. Of course, if you let yourself get so cold there isn't any heat to circulate it's a waste of time and as you say you made it worse. I really do only suggest this to people who know their circulation isn't up to it, not as a general rule. I'm into comfort not crazy adventures, when anything starts to feel uncomfortable I stop, there is no way I'm getting anywhere near hypothermia or frost bite. I am talking about riding a motorcycle in countries where there are service stations and hotels every few miles, not walking to pole. I'd take a different view if I thought I couldn't walk to somewhere warm or get picked up inside an hour.

Andy

[guest18]

Absolutely  not meaning to criticise what you do, just warn off people who may use the trick inadvisedly 

[Richard]

Just tried the test whilst sitting at the computer and failed.  Probably something to do with the Barley Wine.

Richard

[Richard]

"Apologies Richard, Aldi not Lidl."

Not necessary Rob, in any event the more I think about it I think you may be right and they could be Lidl.

The only bit of their kit I haven't got on with at all was their helmet.

Still looking for a good/cheap winter boot that I can walk about in as well.  I used to wear jackboots but they are very uncomfortable to walk in.  I was always amazed that the German s so nearly got to Moscow on foot.

Richard

[guest27]

Just tried the test whilst sitting at the computer and failed.  Probably something to do with the Barley Wine.

Richard

Me too but no barley wine.

Now going back to an earlier post - how does food keep you warm? - Discuss.

Cold drinks - how do they chill you and over what period? A short essay.

Please remember to take into account relative volumes, metabolism, retained glycogen and body fat.

R