Is buell's demise a great loss to the motorcycle world?...discuss

[Steve Lake]

IMHO no, I don't think Erik was a great innovator, most of his 'innovations' were adaptations of previous designs (fuel and oil in frame ...... vincent/triumph/norton. underslung silencer....our very own SRX) and i don't see that putting the oil into the swingarm somehow reduces the unsprung weight, quite the opposite in fact......just a gimmick I think.
and he'd lumbered himself with an engine so large, heavy and outdated that no amount of 'clever' design work was ever going to improve.

AND..knowing 2 owners of modern MV's (both would never buy another, and only keep the ones they have 'cos they can't get a decent price for them) and the interminal delays they have experienced waiting for spares (not to mention the cost of same) I don't see too many mourners if the MV banner goes the same way.... any guesses on who might buy MV?

[Ian]

Hi Steve
Dont forget the old TT/XT/SR family of bikes with oil in the frame too!
Im with you on this one I think...but only after reading your comments tho...if that makes sense? I wont be at all surprised to see HD cut more jobs etc. The ("Marmite")bikes/engines they are producing don`t exactly seem state of the art do they?
Perhaps Im too cynical? Or even that I dont know enough about them!

Ian

[SteveC#222]

I must admit that I always did like the look of Buell's especially the earlier models ( not the last one though).  I always thought they made good use of the Harley engine - even though as I understand it, most of the Harley internals were uprated and they did sound very nice.  It'll be a shame to see them go, but, no, overall I don't think it'll be a great loss to the motorcycle world, there just weren't enough of them about.

As for MV - a very pretty technical exercise but only a handful of people are ever going to daft enough to pay £14k for ANY motorcycle.

I think the real story here is the fact that parent company Harley Davidson's profits are down by some 84%!  Wether you love 'em or hate 'em, Harley are a major global player and if they are struggling in the current economic climate, what does the future hold for 'lesser' manufacturers like Triumph, KTM, Ducati etc? 

[Richard]

OiF - what about Triumphs then................

I just think its a shame that Harley have retreated to the paleolithic.

The only option left to wind up the Hog owners is now the two stroke Cagiva.

Richard

[robG]

guesses on who might buy MV?

From and unnamed source close to the firm..........

Norton are in talks to secure the name, with a view to producing four cylinder superbikes under the ' Mortons ' name. They plan to produce a tourer called the ' Marrowfat '.

Employees at Fisher Price are also watching developments closey as the main supplier of electrical items to the Italian marque.

Rob.

[guest7]

I'll say one thing for Eric Buell, who ever would have thought that anyone could use that engine and make a sharp modern-styled sportbike that handled? Add to that the fact that he not only acheived this but also managed to produce the bikes in large numbers that sold well.

Yes it is a loss.

GC

[Mark]

I recently parted with my S1 White Lightening, what a cracking bike! I remember the day I travelled up to Leeds to buy it, I was going to take it out for a test and by the time I had ridden it the length of the sellers garden 20 meters in 0 secs I knew I was having it.

Not too keen on the fuel in frame, oil in swing arm models but I loved mine. It gives you that feel of what only thumper owners can understand.

[guest27]

Looking at the sales and prfit graphs for HD, they dropped a big one a few years back and have reacted now by dumping the fluff from the edges.  I think they had desires to become something they are not.  HD sell a lifestyle and toys to go with that (I guess all the major bike firms do), and they looked outside that with the 'radical' Buell's and the sporty MVs - both also targeted at a pretty small client base and one that overlaps with HD - so good choices I would guess.  Dont think they took account of the view of HD from outside USA, where HD is as a niche market for paleolithic technology.  I think in the US they are seen as pretty mainstream.  Looking at the data they should have got out 2 or more years ago, and good on them for sticking with it, but probably bad business.  Now they have an economy where niche high value prducts are being squeezed and a badly damaged business from the losse on Buell and MV.  Will be intersting to see what they do.

Is Buell a loss - who knows - nice ideas and often the real innovation is not in a new idea bu te combination of a number of old ideas into a new package (Innovation and entrepreneurial rather than creative and new) and I think Buell did this, but was so much about what an interesting set of components could be wrapped around a HD lump.  Maybe a Buell with a MV lump would have been more challenging to the market and break open niches that the HD lump would close.

Someone will buy the MV name and loose a pot of money trying to make it work, the Italan marques are as evocative as the British and the American, and people seem to want to throw money at them.

John Bloor did this well, he took a name with a history but did nto try to build that history anew until they had a reputation of their own.  Dallied with 4 cylinders etc before hitting on a USP of the triple.  Now can afford to make the 'Bonnie'.  Had he done this first - as would be the temptation - I think they would have sunk.  Mind he was not a motorcyclist but a business man who wanted to move some of his time from building into manufacturing.

What wold be interesting is if some one like Dyson were to take on an old marque with the intent of making innovative electric bikes.  Mind the idea of a bike with a 2000rpm spin speed... 

So is the demise of any manufacturer a loss - depends on your point of view.  Yes - it is a pity as some of the variety has gone from a very conservative sector, and the no - the demise of any business is never a loss it is evolution, if the ideas were any good they will be picked up by others.

R     

[tj63]

From what I understand, it's the finance arm of H-D that's in the deepest trouble and dragging the rest of the company down with it.  They finance about half of all Harleys sold.  Now buyers are defaulting on the loans and of course the reposessed bikes are worth next to nothing.

Spiralling debts meant something had to give.

I won't miss Buell, but then again I've never ridden one - anything with that agricultural H-D engine puts me off straight away.  It's a shame that an innovator such as Erik Buell no longer has his own marque, but he won't disappear.


Trevor