Club Direction

[squirrelciv]

Surely we need to agree a direction for the club before we start planning show stand equipment. To my recollection Uttoxeter was the first show attended in at least 2 years. While we're chatting about it, what is the purpose of displaying at shows anyway?? Is it to boost members?? If so, members to what exactly?? I mean what is the Thumperclub?? Do we have a commitee?? When does it meet?? Who elected the members?? What subs do we pay?? What do members receive in return?? Are we affiliated to MAG still?? What events do we attend?? Do we have any form of formal agenda/meeting/reason to exist??

Yes we have a forum lurked at by many but used by the few, but there really isn't anything much past that is there??

Personally may I suggest we solve the bigger questions first before we spend the only funds we have on display equipment we may never use. I mean, who going to be responsible for storing this stuff?? Who is coordinator?? (might have prevented the ticket fiasco if we had an events organiser) What do we wish to achieve and what events (per year) are we targeting?? If we go off half cocked I fear another 'Best bike of 2007/8/9' competition scenario.

For my 2p worth, I like it as it is. A great forum well used by the trusty few (and lurked at but the rest), a casual club of chaps who meet up (or not) at events around the country to camp, talk bollocks, and have a laugh. And we don't need an advertising display for any of that.

Just my opinion mind, you crack on if you want.

[robG]

Well said, Pat . We are in danger of rehashing an old debate here which wasn't resolved the last time.

Rob .

[guest7]

See THIS (recently thrashed out and about to be sent out, although I added a couple of clarifications after reading Pat's post).
All opinons gratefully recieved.

I realise that the membership is in a state of limbo at the moment, but then so too are the subs. My intention is exactly as stated in a previous debate: to start asking for subs again after the next newsletter.

The club is MAG-affiliated, but our latest batch of cards were only sent to the treasurer around 12 days ago. I planned to send them out with the newsletter.

Ticket-fiasco? I'm not sure I'd go that far. George Beer only sent ours out in the week preceding the show. Some of the people who displayed bikes had bought tickets already and hadn't considered showing their bikes until I asked them. However, the tickets did get used by people who attended the show. I had some left over but not many.

I was asked fair few times over the weekend to consider making a return to the Stafford show and I agreed that it was a good idea, especially if we don't get into the mad rush and hassle of making fancy one-use-only stands. The general viewpoint is that, as I stated in my post, the shows are a good beano for those people who show their bikes because they are entitled to free entry and camping. We also picked up 17 trial memberships at the show* and I have been receiving more by post every day since.

Hands up to the comp disaster (although all the free magazine space wasn't a waste). It fell down when I asked for votes and that turned into a long and mostly fruitless wait for replies.

I'd expect members to use the club for what they want. If, like you, they prefer to visit the forum and turn up at casual meets then that's fine, do that and ignore the more organised side of the club such as committees and the like. Others prefer the more stuctured events like Steve D's fantastic annual rallies and they go with that sort of thing.

GC

* For the show we gave away free trial membership that included one free newsletter and 6 months full site access - and yes I still have to iron this out with Steve H, but that's for us to sort.

[guest27]

* For the show we gave away free trial membership that included one free newsletter and 6 months full site access - and yes I still have to iron this out with Steve H, but that's for us to sort.

I have had salesmen do similar things, usually a good kicking behind the bike shed dealt with the issue.  So Steve H if you need me to hold him whilst you kick whilst chanting the mantra - "Only AFTER I have agreed!" a couple of dozen times should suffice.

 

R

[Steve H]

The topic had moved from "club stands" to "what is the thumperclub" the original comments was likely to be lost so I have split it

[squirrelciv]

Fair point GC, fiasco was a little tough but the point remains that there was a lack of coordination and firm commitments in advance of the show.

I think before we start charging any membership fees and offering any sort of service or schedule we should be damn sure we can fulfill our side of the bargain. If you make a statement such as there will be 4 news letters a year/an annual rally/attendance at 2 shows etc etc and charge someone £XYZ I think it's only right that you deliver. To do this you'll need a strong, committed base of people ready to organise and do those tasks and I just wonder whether we do.

Maybe a member's poll might throw some light on the subject. Who would commit to some sort of role, be ready to turn up and man a stand. My bet is very few and of those that say they would fewer still will actually turn up. It'll be an interesting benchmark to see how many positive replies this thread or the 'Manifeso' achieves. (penny says less than a dozen different names)

I'll be honest, I'm not going to volunteer, not at this stage. I have helped in the past and would help again, but not until things are solid and sure.

Like I say, the casual manner we have currently suits me fine. Meeting up informally at organised events and chatting here on-line is all I want from the thumperclub. Others may want more, I just think before you go off advertising yourselves and expecting money, you sort out what it is your selling.

[themoudie]

I concur Pat.  themoudie X (my mark)

[guest7]

Good points Pat and I understand your concerns.

One simple fact to consider is that the club cannot host any sort of event without Public Liability Insurance. I'm not risking my house on the chance that an 'informal' meet advertised via the club goes horribly wrong. Bad things have happened to other clubs.

If we need PLI we need funds. Even members who opt for full website access will have to be charged a fee that covers their PLI cover, imho.

Newsletters - I've comitted myself to the terms of the manifesto, it's as simple as that. In the past I've been too proud to send out thin newsletters, but now I realise that anything is better than nothing. It will be done, six times a year, not four.

Annual Rally - The annual rally is, as proved by Uttoxeter, as easy to organise as you want it to be. In the past Steve Dalby, Boyd Brooks, Steve Hayward and I have put huge efforts into individual rallies. These rallies were a success, but the cost in man hours is too much for anyone, year after year. On the other hand, Uttoxeter was barely organised at all and we all had a nice time, didn't we?

Shows - The decision to invest in lightweight display materials was made so that it would be easier to transport and assemble a showstand, making it easier to attend such events. If club members have an objection to this then I will fund these items form my own pocket. If I have to man the stand myself then no worries, I've been at most of the shows over the last decade.  As it is, experience shows that people are always willing to lend some time over a weekend to man the stand, especially if they are at the show for free.

I think the best thing members can do is enjoy their membership at the level they choose. The best thing I can do is to stick to the schedule laid out in the manifesto.

What I am not prepared to do at the moment is to create a committee structure to administer the club. This is for two reasons: nobody will volunteer and it won't help to achieve the aims of the manifesto.

Here's a proposition, if you want to renew your membership when asked to do so then pay the funds. If you are not convinced that the fee is justified, as an existing member you can opt for 6 months free internet membership to give you time to see if things have improved. This would only apply to members already on the list.

Seems fair enough to me.

GC

[guest27]

To some extent we are a virtual club, although we do exist. ummmm So we can be anything our membership want us to be and that may be more than one thing.  Our membership is more than appear on here and many may be happy with a newsletter 6 times a year (newsletter, not magazine or newspaper) Others may just like a blather on here.  SOme will want to meet up.  All that I will nail down, is if you want something you have to be prepared to do it.  I would love to come to rallies, camping weekends etc, but frankly at the moment kids, lack of bike that works, wife working all hours etc etc probably means that I will not make it along.  Thus I will read the reports with a tinge of envy but neither vote for or against them as I am not willing to make them happen.  I am not convinced about banners etc at shows, but that is not my thing.  However if it is stuff some members want to do and they will make it happen and the club be a better place for it, then I have no real worries about my 'membership' being spent that way.  Ditto PLI - I may never make use of the potential, but I love the pics and the blather - so OK by me.

R

[robG]

Annual Rally - The annual rally is, as proved by Uttoxeter, as easy to organise as you want it to be. In the past Steve Dalby, Boyd Brooks, Steve Hayward and I have put huge efforts into individual rallies. These rallies were a success, but the cost in man hours is too much for anyone, year after year. On the other hand, Uttoxeter was barely organised at all and we all had a nice time, didn't we?

The over riding thing about Uttoxeter was that the Thumper club attended an existing show and merely put up a stand ,using it as an annual rally,under the umbrella of the VJMC .We all appreciate the efforts of those in the past who have organised the club annual rally in the past .As a result I will always have a soft spot for Dent ,for example .
Let's not kid ourselves , Uttoxeter came about following a lot of debate regarding the lack of annual rally ,born out of sheer frustration  and to my mind was an easy option.The touting of Uttoxeter came about following the Srx event in Cologne being mentioned as an alternative .A number of people voiced an interest ,me included.For various reasons only two members were able to attend.There is no escaping the fact that at the beginning of this year we as a club were incapable of organising our own rally .I would have loved to attended at Uttoxeter ,but would have gone as much to see what else was there as wishing to renew old friendships and meet new members.
Surely the later is what makes a club annual rally .?

Rob .
 

[squirrelciv]

You are right GC, Uttoxeter was a great success, but it would have been no lesser a success if we didn't man a stand. We could all have turned up as individuals, pitched our tents in a circle, seen the show, had a few beers and had a laugh without the need to run a stall. We do that at the Dragon. No need for PLI if we just turn up is there?? I mean the 1000's that walked through the turnstyles didn't have PLI did they?? Also if you're going to put on a rally why not charge £10 for a ticket?? 20 turn up and you have £200 toward the premium of a one-off event.

No problem with paying subs to host the forum, though I believe the bank account is/was full enough to cope for a few years yet, but coughing up for PLI and a newsletter that may not be needed/arrive...

All I'm saying [and bear in mind what started this debate] If you wish to spend the clubs reserves on advertising displays (£100 a pop!) make sure you're going to get your monies worth! If membership fees after costs generated £5 profit, each advertising display would need to rake in 7 new members per year (if they last 3 years) to cover their costs. How many members do we get from shows?? When we did Stafford I don't recall bagging that many and we discounted membership, reducing the profitability of each of them.

Yes you're right, I'm talking cold, hard cash. Not very spiritual. But that's what you're talking about here. Spending the memberships money on club material that may not be any benefit or get used 6 months down the road.

This is why I'm saying sort out the other stuff first. What is the Thumperclub?? What does it's members want?? and where is it going?? If the answers to that lot is shows, stands and a greater membership knock yourself out and buy Sach & Sach.

BTW only 5 commentators so far. My 1p bet is looking safe

[mini-thumper]

At the risk of offending Graham, who I know has the clubs best interest at heart, I tend to agree with Pat. There just isn't enough support within the club to be organising events as we did in the past. Even the hardcore supporters, myself included, have sought other things to waste their money and spare time on. The still on-going, and confused, membership debate is certainly not helping matters either.

IMHO I think it's time to move on. We had some excellent times at the Annual Rally, but times have changed. If it's the same few people constantly propping up the same problems then as Dylan Thomas put it: "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got!".

I'm very keen to support the club, as I've met some very good people through it, and if you need the occasional few quid for the web site let me know. But I think all the other trapping annual rally, newsletter, t-shirts etc. need to be let go. This forum is now the heart of the club and should be kept going as the main focus! There are unlimited possibilities for us to meet under the umbrella of other events - no organising needed, less s**t to carry, plenty of potential etc. etc.!

Steps of soapbox and exits stage left.

Boyd 

[SteveC#222]

I’ve been sitting back watching how this thread goes.  I also tend to agree with Pat & Boyd.  Having been involved with clubs at a committee level before I know all too well how much time and organisation is needed to run a successful club and successful events. With committee meetings, AGM’s, print deadlines and insurance matters it can easily end up with you spending far more time organising things than actually getting out there and riding a bike!!

All clubs seem to have a ‘hard core’ of members who are ‘active’ in contributing in one way or another to the club. The Thumper Club is no different – look at the forums and the majority of the posts are by the same 15-20 people the rest are happy to browse from the sidelines.  Same thing with rallies, most of the time it will be the same people attending club events.

As I see it the Thumper club is now already an internet based club.  We have a great website with a very lively forum and the capability to arrange informal get togethers without too much effort. Personally, I much prefer this sort of informality to the traditional clubs with its committees and politics.

I think we should bite the bullet and say we are an internet bike club.  Do we need to charge any membership fee as such? Steve H has said in the past that the actual cost of running the website is minimal and I’m sure that if money were needed to maintain the site that the ‘senior members’ would contribute – I’d send £10 anytime  because I enjoy the site.

Do we need to advertise ourselves through bike shows? – Probably not.  How many actual members did Uttoxeter get us? Many people who picked up a leaflet or magazine probably won’t take it any further – we are a minority interest group after all.  Personally I usually carry some business cards in my wallet with the clubs website address and when I see a nice looking thumper when I’m out I put one on the seat or bars. I’m sure if a few of us did that we could probably recruit more members than a bike show.

Do we need a newsletter/magazine? Maybe.  I used to be magazine editor for the COC and I know that a magazine is usually the single most expensive drain on a clubs resources. If we decide we are an internet club the magazine could be published online as it is now and save a lot of money for the club.

As Boyd said, it’s time to drop the trappings of the past. Keep the website, keep the forum, keep the informal meet up’s  and go forward.

[robG]

As Boyd said, it’s time to drop the trappings of the past. Keep the website, keep the forum, keep the informal meet up’s  and go forward.

I'm inclined to agree ,Steve .The only difference I would see is some form of club merchandise . A selection of stuff that can be ordered money up front and then the order placed with the supplier.If no one wants this job , I'm happy to take it on .Monies raised from this can support the running of the website.
In terms of this , surely there is enough money in the coffers to support the site  for a while at least.

Rob .

[Andy M]

As we seem to be looking for input I'll step in at this point. I was trying to avoid undue input as I am not able to volunteer my time with anything like the regularity GC, the Steves, Boyd, Pat etc. put in (and apologies to the people covered by the etc.  ). Thank you for your work.

What I see as the club's strong points are that we ride and we talk bikes. There is little in the way of the politics, paperwork and comittee guff that makes me avoid other clubs of which I remain a member. I'm happy with the enlightened dictatorship, I'm happy to pay my subs (don't want bits of paper sent; can I be a full member and opt out of the paper magazine?), I will attend as many meets as possible and do what I can there. The PLI is important and we should have it, plus I'll happily pay for this site.

I think I'm with Rob (was it?) who questioned the payback of kit for a club stand, but that's only an opinion. Maybe we look at this again when we've got numbers on new members from Utoxeter? Can I make another suggestion? Lets get some business cards we can dish out to prospective members anywhere?

Merchandise is risky, Stock can be on the books forever but it sounds good. Can I suggest we need something humorous/different along the lines of the MZ club "wouldn't be seen dead on one of those" or our own "Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow" rather than your basic club logo on a mug? If we all buy a shirt or mug and profits go to the stock, we start at break even? Paypal waiting here, especially if I can pay my subs at the same time. Super membership with a T-shirt?

Andy