Any rugby fans out there?

[guest7]

I read today about the Lions 1974 SA tour that featured the monumentally fantastic tactic known now as the '99 Call'

Basically because the SA teams were playing very dirty rugby and the match officials weren't clamping down on it, the Lions decided that at the call of '99' every member should hit the opponent nearest them. The thinking being that you would get your retaliation in, draw attention to the violence of the other team and stop the ref from sending anyone off because they wouldn't be able to single a player out.

Genius 

Not being a rugby follower I hadn't heard of this before, but I've been laughing at it all day. Apparently JPR (Williams) ran 20 metres to hit an opponent during one 99 call, now that's commitment to the game 

GC

[guest27]

Yup - Always be careful when ordering an "icecream with a flake" whan any of that era are about...

R

[guest7]

Old JPR has only recently retired from the NHS. As a doctor he was famed for a complete lack of bedside manner and judging from his performance 'off-ball' in film from the '74 Lions tour, you wouldn't want to argue with his diagnosis.

GC

[robG]

It wasn't 20 metres,they didn't exist in those days unless you crossed the channel . It was roughly the length of the pitch he careered in order to snot the opponent,if memory serves me right . The film of that incident is quite something.

The world of television rugby is all the quieter for the lack of Bill Maclaren . Who else would describe someone as 'the mumbles light house ' or another player as' charging like an angry hippo ' .Sheer poetry .

Rob

[guest18]

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Actually I think it was a bit of a low point for British Rugby Union  Normally we can rise above that sort of thing and leave the thuggery to the "professionals" of the round ball. Now don't get me wrong, I know some of what goes on in the pack, and I have a little experience of what can go on amongst the backs, but it's always (in my experience) been part of the game and done without personal malice, and not descended into a deliberate fight  I don't see that lot laughing about it in the bar later and buying each other drinks if you know what I mean.

I much prefer to look back at some of JPR's stunning play rather than what was (to my mind) a very ill judged and sad incident.
But that's just me 

[mini-thumper]

Funnily enough just watched an excellent bio-pic on S4C (Welsh channel) about Carwyn James - he of famous Lions (1971) and Llanelli (1972) victories over the All Blacks. Quite a tragic story interspersed with vintage rugby highlights. I doubt if it will make the main Channel 4 schedule as it's in Welsh (with subtitles).

Boyd

[Steve Lake]

Those were the days.....I seem to remember that one Gareth Chilcott (prop for Bath and England) was selected purely for his ability to intimidate and if needed,  mangle opponents....I can't see too much of a problem with the way the game was played then....and there were'nt the catalogue of serious and sometimes life threatening injuries that we hear about today....maybe I'm wearing my rose tinted specs?....

[robG]

I much prefer to look back at some of JPR's stunning play rather than what was (to my mind) a very ill judged and sad incident.
But that's just me 

Smudge , JPR was just one of a whole team of Welsh wizards then ,who regulary populated the Barbarians as well as the British Lions.However as well as playing magical rugby in the seventies,they could , when required stand their ground ,it was part of the game then.It never did and never will detract from the way in which JPR ,or any other of his contempories played ,regardless of their country .

Rob .

[guest18]

I much prefer to look back at some of JPR's stunning play rather than what was (to my mind) a very ill judged and sad incident.
But that's just me 

Smudge , JPR was just one of a whole team of Welsh wizards then ,who regulary populated the Barbarians as well as the British Lions.However as well as playing magical rugby in the seventies,they could , when required stand their ground ,it was part of the game then.It never did and never will detract from the way in which JPR ,or any other of his contempories played ,regardless of their country .

Rob .

Indeed, it was an amazing period for Welsh rugby, and the Lions whom so many of them played for with distinction. I just feel that the "99 call" went beyond the usual standing their ground, dominating the scrum or however we choose to phrase the more direct aspects of "asserting your presence" on the field.

Enthusiastically assisting someone out of the way with the studs, or dark deeds in the ruck, were common practice then (and still go on!) but that is completely different from running twenty yards to punch someone in the face, off the ball.
Even by the slightly more relaxed standards of the time the 99 call was met by shock and widespread condemnation. Certainly in my experience of club rugby in the eighties (and watching internationals naturally)punching someone in plain view would normally be met with a sending off at least. My father was a prop all his days as a player and laterly a referee and I'm fairly sure his attitude to that sort of pre-planned attack, had a club team done it, would have been to send off the entire team and award the win to the opposition! (I've seen a referee threaten it more than once but can only remember it done once mind you..) and that from a man well versed in, and quite happy about pokes, gouges, kicks, punches etc etc etc in combatative areas of the pack.

It's tempting to look back with the comforting gap of time and slightly rose tinted specs and treat it as a jolly jape, or even a well deserved putting into place for the recipients, but it was looked on as going too far by many, many rugby fans then (I hesitate to say the majority as I'm not in a position to make that assertion) and I still *personally* feel it did nothing but harm to the game.

However that is only my own opinion, and we're agreed they were amazing players, so I'll shut up now and leave you all to it 

[guest7]

My understanding of the 99 call was that it was a desperate reaction to some very dirty play from the SA teams during that tour and, in particular, the way in which the (host nation) referees ignored it.

GC

[guest18]

Could be.... I was very young at the time so I may have to bow to your knowledge on that front 

[themoudie]

IT'S A GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr JPR et al were provoked, but the retaliation did them and the game no favours. To have boycotted the series would have shown more b***s and increased my regard.

The 'professional' game is now played by many pumped, steroid filled, padded, loons and it shows.

I'd like to see play for the full 80 minutes with the same 15 man team. Subs after 30 minutes or 60 minutes, just increases the similarity to the American Football 'spectacle'! Increase the duration of the 'Sin bin' or 'send off' numpties who think gouging, punching, raking etc. is OK! Increase the duration of match bans, for persistant offenders.

Rugby League or Union 7's are now more exciting and skillful and my preference, than the 15 a side Union game.

Having played in the pack for 10 years, I enjoyed the Union 15 a side game a lot. Two cracked skulls and the 'Thug' element finally ended the enjoyment. 

After reading this, you may think I suffer from permanent concussion  and you may be right!

Toodle pip and have an enjoyable weekend, Bill.

[guest27]

Hi All

The modern Union game is so impact filled, I look at some of the players and realise that I would not make it into the pack now ( 6' 3" and 16 1/2 st when I was playing regulaly) I am too small.  Some of the abrasive elements have been outlawed - cleaning your boots on an off side flanker did more to keep them honest than any amount of reffing - and we were happy that there was a difference between stamping and rucking a player. I used to chip on and goad my opposite number and the half backs, being happy if I got one of them to swing for me before the match finished - if they did they had lost their cool.  It was a hard game played within rules - written  and unwritten and only ever once did on the pitch needle spill over into the clubhouse - an England colt playing well below himself seemed to think it was his job to hit all these old guys and the ref was too scared to deal with it.  Even playing against lifers in Wellingbrough nick never carried over.

7s is great fun but is rugby for backs, slow donkeys like me never really got a look in.  Rugby League is a simplified one size fits all game, played it a bit and found it boring, find watching it boring as it is so stop start - mind I do enjoy a good old Union forwards scrap, when most of the viewing public have probably switched off.

The 99 call is a bit like Bodyline, more seems to be built into it after the event.  The Bokke have always been big beefy guys - I met some when the RUWC was in Cardiff (hah like hell it was...) and they made the Welsh guys look tiny, genetics not drugs and they do have a history and an acceptance of a more 'robust' style of play.  I can see why a bunch of public school boys from the UK would need to have some way of countering it.

As to whether boycotting the tour would have been better than 99? Maybe picking a load of players of non-European decent would have done the job, but then at the time there were not that many as RU was very much a white persons game in the UK.

Modern RU is getting just to kinetic, No1 goes to school with the sons of Ospreys coach Sean Holley, he refuses to let them play RU as he "wants them to be able to walk when they are 30".

Still there is more honour on a RU field than on pretty much any other sporting arena.

R

[themoudie]

Aye Rog,

Fair points and see where you're coming from. As for being a lightweight, I'm a bl***y feather duster! Even now soaking wet, I'm ~14.5stone (95kg) and 6'2", used to weigh 12.5stone (85kg)max then.

Here's wishing the Lions well.

My regards, Bill.

[guest18]

You can imagine why I stopped playing as a teenager at 5'5" and 10 stone (then, wish i only weighed that now!  )
Didn't take too many moments of being caught by 6'6" 18 stone flankers to realise long life and happiness did not involve being tackled like that  Enjoyed it while I played and still enjoy spectating though