Author Topic: Oz & James drink to Britain  (Read 4844 times)

Bill Rutter

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Oz & James drink to Britain
« on: February 23, 2009, 12:25:11 AM »
Last episode this week of a series that has been a joy to watch. (catch it on BBCi if you can) The Somerset and Cornwall episode last week was a delight, especially James May's rendition of the Blackbirrrrd song....."I'll 'ave 'eee"

themoudie

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 12:34:29 AM »
Aye Bill,

It's alright, but my comments are not acceptable, I suspect.

Another you might try to clock, but it might be for STV only is Mr Connelly, stravaiging around Canada via the North-west passage. Started in Nova Scotia last week (including some motorcycling, fishing, whale watching, iceberg 'eating', statuary gawping and some 'Newfie' Highland Games. Very chilled and he appears to have mellowed, just a wee bitty! ;D

Finish my Greene King IPA, then off to 'sheet alley'!

Toodle pip, Bill.

guest7

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 06:51:39 PM »
If we're talking about telly, did anyone see the Timewatch show (BBC2 Sat 21st) about raising the cannons from an Elizabethan warship?

It turns out that they had begun using uniformly sized cast iron cannons much earlier than had been suspected, giving the Royal Navy a massive advantage against the Spanish.

They cast two new cannons as exact replicas of the ones found on the wreck, then they shot the bloody things at oak planking. These cannon were considerably smaller than some found on the (earlier) Mary Rose wreck, but were still more than capable of firing a ball through the oak. In fact they measured the muzzle speed as being close to the speed of sound.

The Royal Armouries also made a replica of a musket found on the wreck. They fired it at 2mm steel plate, this being the thickness of Elizabethan body armour. First they fired a shot from a pretty large calibre modern pistol that dented the plate. Then they fired the musket and the ball went straight through  :o

A bloody good watch and you can catch it on 'catch up' if you are on cable (and Sky?)

Cheers
GC

guest27

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 08:52:38 PM »
And muskets replaced the longbow not because they were better, had more range, were more accurate or better penetration ( none of which they have) but because it takes about 10 mins to train a musketeer and 10 years to train an archer.

Now they were scary - 180 - 200lb bow, 1/2" to 1" thick ash shaft, bodkin head and a hole through plate at stupid range, 10 times a min!!

R

Andy M

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2009, 07:40:55 AM »
Didn't see the programme, but i've seen the armouries fire cannon (they are about three miles away in Leeds with free entry, well worth the visit). At the same event I fired a replica Land Pattern musket (brown bess) and 1953 pattern Enfield rifle (sort of thing used in the Crimea and American Civil War). Scary things that blast half burnt powder in your face, choke you with smoke, kick like a mule and then drop the shot about 6 foot in every hundred yards. My only hit on an archery target 50 or so yards away was right on the bottom edge after I aimed a full target height above (demonstrator guy was ****ed off, I was supposed to miss). This was my last shot with the rifled enfield and it'd taken me ten minutes to get off three shots. Didn't hit a thing with the musket, but got gold with almost every arrow from a modern bow and was getting off three shots in under 30 seconds. The bow is a lot lighter to lug about too.

It's not surprising back in the Napoleonic wars people were talking about training regiments of archers. From what the armories people were saying the guns first matched the bows in every sense from about the 1860's.

Andy

Paulgertie

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2009, 10:17:25 AM »
Well, I think they got the drink that defines Britain right. Tea, for those who didn't see it.
Paul

guest27

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2009, 09:43:31 AM »
I guess if you are hunting down Napolionic bods you would not need your archers pulling 180 - 200 lb, as there was no armor to pierce - apart from a few breastplates here and there.  a 90 lb bow seems to send the arrow into the tatget with quite a thump, and even my 50 lb baby bow - being a weakling myself - puts an arrow a fair distance and through quite alot.

Mind it was raining at Waterloo if I remember rightly and all the hemp strings would have streached rendering the bow useless...

R

Andy M

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2009, 11:42:56 AM »

Mind it was raining at Waterloo if I remember rightly and all the hemp strings would have streached rendering the bow useless...

R

It rained the night before Waterloo, so the ground was soggy enough to stop round shot bouncing and slow horses, but it stopped before the actual battle got going. Flintlocks don't like the wet either, hence the saying "keeping your powder dry". I'm guessing you'd keep a bow unstrung in the same way as you'd keep catridges in a box until you were going to use them? Wet weather performance was solved with fulminate of mercury for hunting in the 1800's, but the military didn't switch until the 1830's when brass caps with the fulminate in were introduced instead of powder in a priming pan (another common phrase: "going off half cocked" refers to forgetting to pull the hammer off the priming position before trying to fire).

One problem with a bow I guess is lack of a bayonette. You'd need pike men to keep cavalry off if the volume of fire didn't get them. That or try the "stake in the ground" a la Agincourt?

Waterloo (just south of Brussels) is well worth a visit BTW.

Andy

Bill Rutter

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2009, 02:09:51 PM »
Waterloo is worth a visit up to a point. That Lion monument with it's huge earth "plinth" completely distorts the battlefield (I wonder what Lord Wellesley would have made of it). Can you imagine us doing that at say, Bosworth Field or Senlac?

robG

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2009, 05:20:55 PM »
I can endorse Andy's comments regarding the Royal Armouries in Leeds . Visited some time ago and it was a great day out .I was reading the Sharpe books at the time and thoroughly enjoyed  a presentation from an actor dressed as a Rifleman , giving a monologue from a diary written at the time by a serving Rifleman . Really was history coming alive .

As regards Oz and James , the incident where they changed the language on the sat nav to Roumanian , whilst driving in Ireland ,was superb.

Rob . 

002

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2009, 12:37:30 AM »
.

As regards Oz and James , the incident where they changed the language on the sat nav to Roumanian , whilst driving in Ireland ,was superb.

Rob . 

Roumanian !!!!! 

 You Been on the Sauce ????


Jethro
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Lee Enfield
ELG

guest295

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2009, 08:31:20 AM »
Does anyone know why the British didn't adopt compound bows? They had more power with lower draw weight, and were shorter than longbows. Was it just a matter of "not invented here" syndrome? Or were the gentry afraid to let such a weapon loose amongst the common herd?

guest27

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2009, 08:26:14 PM »
Ahh rain and bow strings - well keep this under your hat... but that is what it means.  In the rain archers would remove the bow string and coil it, pop it under their hat.  Used a spare string to tie hair back etc, also kept dry, could be used for stringing the the bow (a second string or another string to their bow.

Benefit over the crossbows of the mainland was that a long bow could be strung by hand, whilst a cross bow with all the poundage they pull could not, thus the crossbowmen had to keep the whole bow out of the rain as opposed to just the string.

Compound bows - horn, bone and ligament laminate etc.  Not sure but I do not think the made it into Europe, let alone off the edge of Europe and into our sodden land.  Some of them had to be kept dry else the laminates would come apart.

Great bow (longbow) originated in Wales (allegedly) and was made of elm or witchelm rather than yew.  The good yew came from Spain or Italy, not the UK and there were laws requiring the importation of bow staves with other goods.

Bayonets - a bow is pretty pointy :)  and most of the archers would have a variety of daggers etc for despatching the wounded - so I guess something could have been arranged, mind fitting a spike to a bowstave should not be too difficult.

BIkes - wot are they?

R

robG

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 12:15:52 AM »
I remember the Crossbow calender........................................... ;D

Rob .

guest27

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Re: Oz & James drink to Britain
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 09:29:07 AM »
MMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Seem to remember there were some nice bikes too

R