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[guest7]

Do you secretly like the silly stereotype of bikers that non-bikers tar us with? Do you play off the 'tough guy' image?

Given the wide scope of experience and knowledge displayed on this forum, doesn't it seem a little daft to stick to a narrow idea of what biking is and to deny that bikers are basically just ordinary people who enjoy a certain mode of transport. Surely we're not really special? Surely we are not privvy to some mystical 'truth' that car drivers are unaware of?

Or is part of your biking enjoyment the sense of being an outsider? "What are you rebelling aginst Johnny" etc.

I'd say I was firmly stuck between the two. On one hand my rational self says that being a biker means nothing other than I ride a motorcycle. On the other hand my more romantic self likes the idea that riding a bike makes you a member of a minority, a little community of like-minded rebels.

Perhaps for me the simple fact is that I have trouble separating biking from rock and roll, the two being closely bound in my slightly skewed view of the world. For me it's all about sticking two fingers up and having a rocking good time (daddy-o).

If we try and keep biking as a minority activity with a threatening image then does that bode well for future inclusion in rapidly changing transport policies?

GC

[Andy M]

You've been on the Chuck Berry havn't you 

I think my generation lost that link with music and the rockers. The bikers were more likely to be dentists on their day off wearing a leather baby suit and riding a plaything rather than your actual hard case fix anything, go anywhere, put 6d in the jukebox types. The musical people seemed to just switch between whatever their managers told them to put in the video. My loss IMHO.

The members of this club are probably an oddity (ok, we know they are), in that many run a bike as transport and as a means to getting places. We could I've no doubt be said to be rebelling against the consumer society of something, but I still can't really see that either. I'm just too mean to buy a Volkswagen or something 

For inclusion in transport schemes you need to be simply big (for example you can get Ken Livingstone to make people buy new trucks!). I work in the truck industry. We know railways and canals are more efficient, but we are bigger than they are, so green or not trucks are here to stay, they'll buy the people who say otherwise. There are lots of really big industries that will happliy kill bikes. Safety and leisure status are the biggest excuses they'll use, the anti-social/rebel image isn't really needed and is too likely to backfire IMHO.

To chuck another idea in there, anyone care to comment on the image produced by the likes of American Chopper etc, on the telly. I find the idea that rich Americans who seem to do most of their travelling in pick up trucks in order to build utterly impractical bikes even weirder than the idea that my Grandad on his Bantam might have frightened old ladies with his redition of Chantilly lace and a greasy ex-RAF jacket, but maybe I missed something there 

I think I am a "biker" because I ride a bike. I ride a bike because I like to be self sufficient and actually understand how everything works. I like adventure and in these days where nearly everything has been done before, being short of a wheel adds to the journey and puts you in a position where you are more likely to actually talk to people. This seems to place me as a mean adrenalin junky on the pull? OK, I call the trick cyclist and quit while I'm ahead 

Andy

[Richard]

Biking has changed with my years, I have been at the median point, agewise, since I turned 18 (I am now 46), and the biking world has changed with me.  It has attracted all sorts.  Commuters, rockers, greasers, Chromo-sexuals (nice one SE), off roaders, sports bikers, mods.  Some of us cross boundaries too - no GC thats not the same as cross dressing.  I enjoy 60's Rock Music and the Cafe stylee, but don't think I'm a rocker.  I'm also as far from tough as it is possible to get really, I would have joined in a bike chain fight once but it was over before I'd been able to dismantle the shaft on the Beemer enough to hit somebody with it.

Some folk are more individualistic than others.  The Harleyesque crowd always make me laugh at this stage.  I loath riding in groups, most members of my local bike club in Lampeter love it.  I still went to the IoM with them and enjoyed it enormously.

At the end of the day I enjoy riding bikes, talking b****ks about them and reading magazines about them or even working on them, especially with a mate and a mug of tea to hand.  But its nothing mystical or spiritual nor does it put me on a higher plane than others.  I just like bikes and its just my hobby.


Its nothing special really, but it is mine.

[guest7]

I think what I was trying to say is that despite us all being quite level-headed about what biking is and means to us, I'm sure some of us (myself included) do sometimes enjoy being associated with the rocker/loner/rebel/misfit image of biking.

And let me say, what a delight it is to read good debate (er... if that makes sense). I've been working on-site for the last few days with scores of ill-mannered, monosyllabic sprogs in yellow hi-vis vests and hard hats. It's been really depressing seeing the construction industry live up to its poor reputation (which almost brings us back to the point).

What sometimes scares me is how effing daffy I am about bikes. I've been sat in disciplinary hearings at work, fighting for my job, and still looked out of the window to see what bike was going past the office. Today the site foreman let on that he owned a Norton Dominator and we got talking for bloody ages about bikes... and he even told his boss to wait until we were finished 

I have to say, though, that I am still a little bolshy on a bike. Today the dual carriageway from here to my job (about 5 miles) was solid with traffic, so I filtered all the way to work... on the sidecar outfit 

GC

[guest18]

Why? Beats traffic, and it's fun.
I saw a car the other day with a baby on board sticker in the back window which said "Baby I'm Bored"  good effort but it just sums up commuting in a car to me. It's boring and slow and feels like being a couch potato. At least on the bike I can feel the weather and smell the grass, the rain on hot alloy etc etc.
A gnarly old Sergeant once said to me "don't worry about the rain or the cold son, enjoy it, it means you're still alive!" and cliches aside he has a point... for all the miserable scary/cold/unpleasant moments I get as many joyful moments swinging through the bends feeling like things are good even when they're not... and that can be on a Monday morning on my way to work  when I'm in the car I feel like a drone, insulated from everything and baby... I *am* bored!

GC rambled:
"Surely we are not privvy to some mystical 'truth' that car drivers are unaware of?"

If you don't know by now..... 

Solo: poetry in motion, existential joy... mystical truth (  )

Outfit: Designed by a lunatic, most dangerous thing on the roads, good for carrying gear and reminding you of the tightrope we daily trip along between alive and dead... but still a damn sight more interesting and fun than any boring eurobox! 

[Steve Lake]

My biking is almost genetic....grandfather and father before me were bikers....but where theirs was necessity (the only form of transport they could afford)...my father didn't get a car until after i'd left home.. so i'm the first in the line to bike predominently for pleasure....but being brought up amongst bikes and biking people I'm comfortable with just being a bloke who's into bikes and biking......as is my Son....I certainly enjoy the company of like minded people, but not to the exclusion of others, and I don'd consider myself a rebel (I may have done so in the 60's though)and yes, biking is considered a 'minority' interest, so what, most of the passtimes and sports I've taken part in over the years have been classed as 'minority' (badminton, squash, cycle racing, triathlon, ice hockey, speedskating) the important thing to me, with all those passtimes has been the social aspect....
anyway...i'm just rambling on here when i should get orf ta bed

pip pip

[Steffan]

I just love motorcycles! Some people are made nervous by bikes and those of us who ride them - like the lads in the Hostel in Bettws when Richard and I walked in all wild eyed on a dark and stormy night. I did consider  chasing a car down the motorway for 15 miles with the intent of inflicting bodily harm to the jumped up, arsehole occupant on more than one occasion. I have also pulled along side cars in tail backs and tapped on the window and instructed people to put down there mobile phones whilst driving, and I did used to fantasize about carrying a long cosh for dealing out a bit of justice to wings and mirrors but I don't think that makes me a rebel or anything.

No, the mystique such as it is, is a product of film and advertising. Although that said a long run on a nice day, on good roads, with a minimum of traffic does have a certain transcendental feel to it - almost out of body.

Steffan

[pigafetta]

My bikes are my only transport. I can't drive a car, never quite got the knack of it despite my efforts. I just can't seem to see properly in a car and it feels too remote like watching the world on telly. This is possibly because I became so used to riding bikes when I was a lad but whatever the reason I'm an absolute menace behind the wheel. For most of the 1990s I never had a bike after losing a couple of good friends in accidents and to be honest, I was usually under the influence of something or other anyway.

There was always an association between rock music and bikes for me when I was a teenager. My group of friends got into bikes from older brothers etc and we were all into our music. I was never the 'tough guy' greaser type though, more of a hippy really. I don't think I've ever intimidated anybody and I couldn't fight my way out of a wet paper bag. I'm not sure that the rebel minority image is really that relevant any more except for the backpatch clubs and the big beardy Harley chaps (an image which has become a bit of a parody of itself and has the potential to look really gay). So many bikers seem to be well-to-do, expensive sports bike owning weekenders these days. It's become a bit like yachting, a weekend hobby when the weather's nice for anybody that's got a few quid. I'm not knocking them, it's just that they've lessened the whole 'outsider' thing that bikers had when I was young and impressionable.

I don't feel special now although I felt like a proper rebel when i was 17. I just love bikes. I love the fact that it can be pissing down, freezing cold and I really don't want to go to Sainsbury's but as soon as I stick my panniers on and get moving I always enjoy the ride. I love working on them even though I throw stuff and swear a lot and I'm not actually very good at it.

I tend to be a bit antisocial but I do like the sense of comradeship. I like the fact that most bikers still nod to each other on the road no matter what they're riding. And if I go down to the bike shop I'm inevitably there for hours because, whoever happens to be there, there's always something to have a good chinwag about. I'm sure my Gran experienced the same sort of thing in the knitting shop though.

If I'm an outsider it's because I'm a geek, not because I'm a biker.

Dave b

[Steve H]

I tend to be a bit antisocial but I do like the sense of comradeship. I like the fact that most bikers still nod to each other on the road no matter what they're riding. And if I go down to the bike shop I'm inevitably there for hours because, whoever happens to be there, there's always something to have a good chinwag about. I'm sure my Gran experienced the same sort of thing in the knitting shop though.

If I'm an outsider it's because I'm a geek, not because I'm a biker.

Dave b

Ive been following this thread, thinking I ride a bike cos I like it, I dont need to analyse it.
However the two quotes above are a bit to close to the truth for comfort.

[Steve Lake]

I agree Steve...also Steffans comment about a truncheon made me laugh.....I remember a story my Father told me......before the war he was in a cycling club near london (kentish wheelers i seem to remember, quite a famous club in its time).... de rigeur clothing for racers in those days was a kind of black woolly stuff (was it called alpaca?) and the shirt had a pocket in the front bit like a kangaroos pouch where the rider could put his jam sandwiches, tyre levers, etc.......my Father also kept a catapault and half a dozen marbles in there.....specifically for motorists who 'cut them up' as he put it.......the thaught of him riding 'no hands' like the clappers on some old boneshaker whilst taking aim at some old austin or morris with his catapault always makes me smile.....aparently there were traffic jams on the brighton road at the weekends, even then

pip pip

[Steffan]

my Father also kept a catapault and half a dozen marbles in there.....specifically for motorists who 'cut them up' as he put it.......the thaught of him riding 'no hands' like the clappers on some old boneshaker whilst taking aim at some old austin or morris with his catapault always makes me smile.....aparently there were traffic jams on the brighton road at the weekends, even then

May his honoured memory live for ever!!

This is the sort of mettle that seems all bred out these days

Mr Lake sr I salute you!

Steffan

[squirrelciv]

For me it's about solitude. I love the peace I get when riding cocooned in my own world inside my helmet. Don't particularly like group riding cos someone else has influence over what I do (with the exception of riding with SteveH who generally buggers off at a rate of knots and waits at major junctions ) Not particularly interested in what colour paint should be on headlight shell of a 1965 B44 either. A bike's a bike. If it looks pretty, then it's a pretty bike and no more.
Not particularly interested in image. Yes, sometimes people think your 'cool' cos you ride a motorcycle, but then sometimes people think your an arse for the same reason. I think it just says more about them than it does about the rider.
Like I said, when I'm riding along it's all about me, me, me.

[guest18]

Did get a smile tonight,
I was kitting up and about to fire up the chariot in Cupar when a couple walked past, all burberry and tattoos and fortified wine...
"F***in h*ll look at that" said the bloke, and I was waiting for some derogatory comment when he followed it up with "that's f**king well cool!"

  I must confess I was pleasantly surprised, and rode away feeling rather "cooler" than I have for a while 

[Steve Lake]

you da man smudge

[guest24]

Image is in the eye of the beholder...

I dont act tough when I am dressed up in my gear. However, I have had other people try and act tough against me!! Worst culprits are chaps in suits near where I work. I am obviously some low-life who needs to be swept away as I am a disgrace and might sour their Starbucks! Pah!

Like Pat, I ride for me. I ride whenever, whatever the weather 99.9% of the time. I am even happier riding now I've got my SRX back on the road. I found using someone elses bike not quite as nice as using your own. Sounds like a cue for a song (based on the 7 Dwarves)

We'll thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, we'll thump the whole day through!
etc etc. I 'll leave the rest of the lyrics to someone who knows the tune.....