A cold blast on a warm day!

[Steffan]

I was musing about the elefant and I was wondering which of my bikes would be most suitable if at all - and before the usual suspects predictably pop up and start blathering on about chairs and combos - no I am talking about the possibility of going on a solo.

So, the question is what sort of speed do I need to hold once over the channel? Bullet or MZ stroker?

Steffan

[002]

Depends how far you want to go in a day !
We usually  pop along holding a steady 70mph and cover about 500mile in a day.
But of course depends on the weather.

Couple Elafants ago GC invited a person called Mike Cater and he came along on an MZ 250 and managed quite well.
When he had petrol in his tank and wasnt thowing his bike onto the Hotel owners scooter.
Amongst a few other misdemenours.

Fare Dos he did Germany through France in one go to the Ferry going around the Paris ring-road twice.
I dont think the constant motorway speeds would do the Enfield any good at all.

Now your Scorpion No Problem.


Jethro

[squirrelciv]

Always fancied doing the Elefant for some strange reason. Which year were you thinking of going Steffan?

[Steffan]

Well it won't be this year, parents have confirmed that they are coming over this Jan and I have a MA dissertation to complete so that's that..maybe the year after???

Steffan

[Andy M]

To me there is a miniumum speed then it's only a matter of time. There is no way to do the Elefant from the UK without using the motorway, they simply don't clear the minor roads. Now I know some people will happily sit at 75 kph with a truck 18 inches off their tail light but I'd consider it a must to be able to hold 90 kph on pretty much any gradient, in anything except heavy snow. The snow is just a factor on if the solo bikes complete the rally or not. In 2004 I'd have thought any solo would have made it although getting up the site before the Saturday would have been a slog. The 2007 event was impossible on the Bonneville, there was no way you could do 200 miles on deep snow with road tyres and the weather set to get worse. With knobblies and a storm moving out rather than in it'd have been worth trying for longer. This is where the sidecar boys have a huge advantage, they will keep moving even if it is very slow. The limit with distance per day is the cold. After about 7-8 hours riding you've really had enough. A heated jacket adds maybe an hour to what you can take, or at least gets past the "coffee needed every 30 miles" thing. This means the Bonneville or BMW outfit gets 5-600 miles in while the Bullet or MZ might only get 3-400. It's only proper light 6 hours a day, so expect to need full lighting on all the time. You've also got a lot of gear to carry, especially if you intend to do the full thing rather than sprint in, collect your badge, have a gluh wein and scoot. You'll be wearing a lot of kit too which doesn't help.

So, the MZ is good as it'll cruise at 90 kph and has a decent alternator (MZ-B I assume). It's not so good on tyre choice or the ability to carry a lot of kit. Snow performance i'd rate as average as the inverted banana frame does seem to give a higher C-of-G. Lightness is good.

The Bullet's ability to hold 90 kph for hours at a time on the motorway I'd question and I'd not rate the alternator as up to the job. The load carry ability isn't fantastic either. The good part of the Bullet is the snow performance and choice of tyres.

Either way I'd allow at least three days in either direction, while something like the Bonneville or a BMW GS can do it in two.  I'd also want something more knobblie than Bridgestone road tyres.

I won't be making another attempt until at least 2009 (wedding etc.).

Andy

[Simon#83]

I don't think there's such a thing as the "wrong bike" to do the Elefantentreffen on. I think it comes down to your own personal comfort level and attitude!

Most of the trip there and back is on the motorways. For a more comfortable ride it would make sense to take a bike that is good on motorways, but clearly this is not mandatory. Just ask GC about his XBR oufit! Factors here include cruising speed, wind protection, tank range. Personally, I've found my DR650 to be ideal for the motorway, cruising comfortable at 80-85 and adequate wind protection from the half fairing. Tank range is a decent 150 miles to reserve, just about at the limit of how much cold I can take in one run. By the time I've filled up and munched on a Mars bar, I'm revived enough to carry on and do the next 150 mile stint.

Obviously, speed will depend on conditions. Tim Berry and myself were reduced to crusing at 30mph on the autobahn coming from the site this year in blizzard like conditions. Lorries overtaking you at this speed is quite nerve wracking!

Bar blizzards on the autobahn, the crux is the 12 miles or so from the autobahn to the rally site. It is quite a climb, and there are a few steep hills. Some years we've done it and the roads have been gritted, but this is no guarantee. I was glad I'd fitted Continental TKC80s to the bike this year as I found they performed brilliantly in the snow covered roads back to the autobahn. 

You will get cold on this run. I have not invested in heated clothing, I simply wear about 7 or 8 layers of clothing around my torso. I have fitted heated grips to the DR, which help. Riding at a slower speed has it's advantages on the coldness front!

It was my intention this year to make the rally site in a day, from Reading via the Eurotunnel. I didn't quite make this, having to resort to stopping at an hotel about about a 100 miles short of the rally site. I'd covered just over 700 miles, I think. I think I'd have made it if I hadn't broken the headlight bulb in stupid petrol station dropping of the bike incident. As someone has mentioned, there's potentially a lot of time spend riding in the dark (especially if you're doing long stints) and decent lights help.

Luggage-wise I always try to travel light (ask GC, Jethro how much luggage I had for the 2000 rally!), but I would recommend a decent sleeping bag and ground mat, and plenty of layers of clothing above anything else you want to carry. As long as I'm warm, I'm happy!

So, to answer the question on which bike, I'd consider:

- How comfortable to you want to be?
- How quickly do you want to get there?
- How suitable is each bike to motorways?
- How suitable is the bike for the 12 potentially snow covered miles up to the site?
- Will you be travelling with someone else and what comfort level/tank range/speed have they got?

I'd have thought either bike will be fine, but I'd consider tyre choice for the short stint to and from the rally site. I'd imagine full on knobblies will probably not have much tread on them after all the motorway miles though!


HTH,
Simon


 

[guest27]

So what you are saying is a full dresser Goldwing with the top box replaces with a carry rack for a small traily with full on knobblies and space for the tent etc.  Park the Dresser near the Autobahn and ping-ping-ping up to the site on the tender...

R

[trophydave]

As you douptless know people have done the Elephant on 2 smoke MZs.I seem to recall a story from MZ rider about four years ago where a chap set off for home early sunday and made it back the same day on an ETZ250.He must have just kept on riding with hardly any time off the bike at all.Also he may have lived about two minutes from the ferry port,it didn't say where he lived,unlike yourself.
As for keeping warm, my ETZ with a standard alternator would power my home made heated vest no bother.Add on some hand protectors and a small screen and it was fine for winter use,however the furthest I ever went on it was the Dragon in 2004 and 2005 not the far end of Germany.
Now my own dilemma.The Transalp I have just bought has an Elephant sticker on it,so although I have never been the bike may well have done.Does this mean I must remove the sticker or go to the rally to justify having it :-)

[guest27]

The sticker also says Elephant - despite it being a bike rally.  Should allthe bikes be replaced with Elephants?

Remove it and sell it on Ebay

R

[002]

The sticker also says Elephant - despite it being a bike rally.  Should allthe bikes be replaced with Elephants?

Remove it and sell it on Ebay

R

Tut Tut ! The Rally is named after a motorbike !
The Zundapp KS600 was known as the Green Elefant.
A group of owners decided to have a get together in the 50s and name it The Elafantentreffen.
And so it grew from there.
Now you have Two the rally that we go to near Passau and you have the Alte(old)Elefantentreffen which is held at the Nurbugring later on in February.

Jethro

[guest27]

Mmmmm My surname is "Key" and whilst my family in memory come from Lincolnshire, Key probably comes from Cornwall and is from the mining there - the Key was the guy who put in the roof trusses or the like.  So I am named afer a Cornish tinminer.  My Dad however was  a Post Office Telephones engineer.  If I was named afer my Dad I would be called Roger GPOengineersson as it is I am not.  The rally may have been for a bunch of Zundap Green Elefant riders, but being as the bike gets the name 'elefant' from somewhere and may be due to its porkiness being more than porkie.

The name for the bike was not a unique new name - the rally was named after the elefant in the same way as I am named after a tin miner.  NOW had the rally been in Iceland that would be a different matter.

Strangely though - I have what is probably a Cornish surname from my Dad, but Cornwall was the last place in the UK to give up the Celtic matrilinial form of naming, in which case if I have Cornish heratage I should take my mothers name and be Rog Brookman - but that is a name from a patralinial culture so I should take my Dads..... quark spin antispin interface error - Hah Roger Noname!!!!


R

[Frankunfurter]

Mmmmm My surname is "Key" and whilst my family in memory come from Lincolnshire, Key probably comes from Cornwall and is from the mining there - the Key was the guy who put in the roof trusses or the like.  So I am named afer a Cornish tinminer. 

 "Key"....as in Wind-Up !

Das Frankenfurter

[002]

Dont forget a "Gas" cooker aint gonna work very well !
You may need a Petrol/Paraffin/Diesel cooker for a decent heat.

I use petrol myself as I tend to have plenty with me.That is a good drop in the tank of the bike.   :-)

Stalwart (TM)

[Andy M]

If you decide to take the ZED, I calculated the following (prior to my engine sieze and switch to the Bonneville):

Leeds-Rally-Leeds via Rotterdam is 1293 miles (From GPS)
I decided to do this over 4 days: Rotterdam-Wurzburg, Wurzburg-Rally, Rally-Koln, Koln-Rotterdam
40 mpg, 50:1 means 3 litres of stroke oil.
1.3 in the tank means 1.7 to buy or carry.

Carrying a 1 litre Sigg bottle means only having to buy stroke oil on the Rally-Koln leg, a probable saving in time and effort, plus next to no risk of running out. The litre bottle sit's nicely alongside another holding stove/spare fuel on the outside of my Army issue panniers.

If you want the spreadsheets with this plan, drop me a line.

Andy

[Steffan]

I am definately contemplating it for 2009 as next year is out and as much as I would love to take the bullet, I think it will be a Zed probably my black one or maybe if it is ready my birthday project from the wife my soon to be ES250/2.

If I can persuade Mr Marshall then we could take a squadron of Zeds over, are you interested?

Steffan

On the other hand there is always the Alt-treffen, no one been yet?