Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: Andy M on February 23, 2011, 07:59:21 AM
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So, I left the Dragon, turned right, headed up over that little pass and the lake. I soon catch up with a group of about 10 bikes, mix of big traillies and sports bikes. What really struck me was how slow they were and how rigid their positioning was. Left hander, I'm out on the line or over it if I can see to look and be seen as far as I can. Matey in front is halfway between the line and the gutter. Right hander, I'm over to the left, big traillie guy is right where we left him on the tram lines. Double S, downhill, you can see for miles, I cut across the lot wide racing line, our friend brakes and follows the railway ??? Now I was going to have a rant, but maybe his hangover was bad, or he was a new rider or something. I don't do group riding, but these guys couldn't do 40 and had a trail of cars after me.
Yesterday I'm going to work on the back roads. There is a set of lights where a CBR-something is waiting. We set off together, but he gets to 60 before the MZ, so there is a gap. Theres are two farm gates. One on the left, so I head to the line for a look, one to the right, so I pull left. CBR man is on rails down the middle of our side until he see's the tractor in the second gateway. He brakes!!! I was off the throttle before he even saw it.
So, what do we think guys? Lots of hangovers? People who own shares in the brake pad suppliers? Or, dare I suggest it. lack of skills and training? Is this still a taboo subject for the weekend litre-bike brigade? Should we stick to talking about wearing the knees out of our trounsers?
Andy
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Probably, largely inexperience. If you are the right age and have enough money it's very easy to get a big bike licence these days. You can take an intensive course to pass your test in a week - a course that teaches you how to pass your test NOT how to ride a bike - and if you have the money you can go straight onto the bike of your dreams- or at the bike that MCN tells you should be the bike of your dreams that week. Add to that the fact that 'real bikers' don't need training and you have a receipt for disaster and the reason so many born agains get killed. A lot come back into biking after 20 years only to find that a 750cc these days is a very different beast to the 750 they had in the 70's.
Anticipating potential hazards is largely something that comes with experience - using the whole of your side of the road to look around corners, to see hazards before you get to them. Where I am in Lincolnshire we get a lot of bike/tractor accidents especially when the tractors come out of the fields. As soon as I see a few lumps of mud on the road I am automatically slowing down getting ontothe centre line and looking for the tractor that left it. With experience you don't really think about where you need to be you are just there. Also 10 years of commuting on a small bike taught me to read drivers minds to some extent - 9 times out of 10 I would know which ones were going to do something stupid...trouble is it's the other one you have to worry about! :o
The Police training manual is worth a read.
As for group riding, I hate riding in groups. You often cant ride where you want to be and have to rely on the skills of those in front of you. Last time I went out with one of the local bike clubs it seemed to be go like the clappers for 30 minutes overtaking anything that gets in your way, stop and have a fag, natter etc cos you've got a sore ar5e from your racing seat, go like the clappers again overtaking the same cars you overtook before and so on until you reach your destination. Not my way of riding. I never went with them again ( nice enough people but crap riders).
OK, another question. You are on a quiet motorway section doing a steady 70mph in the inside lane ( no rush). As you go along you come to a car doing 60 mph hogging the middle lane. You gradually catch up with him and , still in the inside lane and without increasing your speed go past him. Are you technically guilty of undertaking? Should you have gone right out to the outside lane, overtook, and then returned to the inside lane? never been really sure how you would stand with that. :-\
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OK, another question. You are on a quiet motorway section doing a steady 70mph in the inside lane ( no rush). As you go along you come to a car doing 60 mph hogging the middle lane. You gradually catch up with him and , still in the inside lane and without increasing your speed go past him. Are you technically guilty of undertaking? Should you have gone right out to the outside lane, overtook, and then returned to the inside lane? never been really sure how you would stand with that. :-\
Guilty! However, I think you'd be hard pushed to find a copper that was a) actually looking for such things and b) could be bothered to do you. Now, as a law abiding citizen meeting the plod from hell, you would possibly refuse to comment other than to confirm your details and them politely enquire as to why the bloke plonking along in lane 2 had not been pulled as well. A dab of brake as you try to prevent the undertake would no doubt help your case.
Move from the second lane to the first, pass, move back into lane two and you are in big trouble. Get another car to follow the first one and you can claim it's a queue and therefore perfectly legal.
They'd never thought of the M62 when they drew all those Ford Angulars on the back of the highway code!
Andy
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OK, another question. You are on a quiet motorway section doing a steady 70mph in the inside lane ( no rush). As you go along you come to a car doing 60 mph hogging the middle lane. You gradually catch up with him and , still in the inside lane and without increasing your speed go past him. Are you technically guilty of undertaking? Should you have gone right out to the outside lane, overtook, and then returned to the inside lane? never been really sure how you would stand with that. Undecided
Not undertaking as far as I understand (but could be completely wrong), to undertake you need to make a deliberate manoeuvre- such as changing from the middle to the inside lane to overtake, whereas in the situation you described you are just keeping pace with the flow of traffic - as you would in a traffic jam when one lane moves faster than the other.
Whether I'm right or not, it's what I do (and have done quite a lot over the years because there are so many f###ktards who can't use motorways and think the middle lane is there to bimble along having tea and cakes in) and have never had any trouble from "the rozzers" - probably 'cos even if it is illegal, it isn't going to be the worst peice of driving they see!
Having said that I'd be dubious about doing it on the bike, as the vast majority of mouth breathing plebs that tend to get handed driving licences will neither check blind-spots nor indicate before pulling back across to the inside lane.
Sorry I think I might have turned this into a bit of a rant :-[ ;)
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I quite often go up the inside if its quite obvious that the car in the middle is just unaware of their surroundings. I see it as the "going with the flow of traffic" exception.
Not so sure about on a bike though just incase they suddenly realise what a plank they are and move over as mentioned above.
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I do the odd undertake on my comute, but reckon the "He started it!" defence will save me. ;D If I'm getting past someone stuck in the middle lane at my leisurely 60mph cruising speed they're usually either to old to moan or actually dead already, but haven't realised. If I had to move over in to the far right lane [and stick to my 60mph] I'd be a far bigger hazard.
As for the original thread... Lets be generous and put bad riding coming home from the Dragon down to excessive beer consumption. Though I must admit, even I past a couple of guys riding like toddlers on a push-a-long rocking horse and I'm sh1t at bend swinging when the XT's loaded.
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Quite obviously a bunch of blokes on their annual outing, whatever (if any) skills they pick up are lost by the next time they venture out.
Living within 10 miles of snetterton (roll on the new circuit layout) i get a lot of cheap track days, just by turning up 'on spec' and offering cash to fill a slot....
As you know, snetterton has the longest straight in the uk (and still will have when the revised circuit is opened).... now....me on my old srx track iron, and my old fashoined ( no knees flapping about in the breeze) riding style, can still leave a lot of 1000cc kawayamonda plastic missiles behind over 6 laps.....purely down to maintaining corner speed with correct entry and exit....on what look like bicycle tyres compared to some of the stuff you see these days (ye gods....a lot are using tyre warmers on track days!!!)
Now my skills are decidedly average as far as i'm concerned, but the yoyo's i see on track days literally go round the corners 'threepenny bit style' then hammer off down the straights at silly mph..... (as Barry Sheene said....any twat can go fast in a straight line....sounds like one of his quotes anyway)
But...fairs fair....maybe the yoyo's of last year will now (thanks to their track days) will now be more confident and skilled, and use the roads properly....
I can remember being a point and squirt hero (admittedly on a bsa bantam ;D) once....
the best single thing i did to improve my skills on the road was the bikesafe course, run in norfolk by the police at their hq in norwich.
i can't reccommend it too highly.... should be part of everyones skills portfolio... in fact i'd go so far as to say that it should be compulsory.... say within a year of passing your test....i really do believe itis a lifesaver.
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Riding Welsh roads and not taking full advantage of road positioning would be mightily foolish.
I have been to a number of accidents in which a 'born again' has taken a left hander, strayed over the white line and met an oncoming vehicle.
The lesson being that positioning has to be all about improving visibility and ACTING ON IT.
Having said that I am sure we all ride on autopilot sometimes and just follow the tramlines.
Richard
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The lesson being that positioning has to be all about improving visibility and ACTING ON IT.
Richard
I did my IAM test when I was 19.Most of it has probably long been forgotten but the one thing I remember was the stuff on positioning,vanishing points etc.I do my best to position myself so as to be able to see as far up the road or into side roads etc as possible,without wiping myself out on oncoming traffic,obviously.
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MMMmmmm!
Use the full width of your lane (not sure about straying over centre line as a matter of course), wobbly cyclists with panniers front and rear, scenery gazing are still awful slim.
Slow in, fast out.
Observation to the vanishing point of the road, with a 'fly' look over the hedges as far as you can see.
Confidence, in grip of tyres and effectiveness of brakes. You can read the road, but not have the confidence of taking tyres and brakes to the limit of adhesion and retardation (My weakness, after throwing it away on a diesel 'lubricated' road, 30+ years ago!).
Undertaking, no, just steady progress, but tuck to the left and accelerate clear. Occasionally, they 'wake up'! :o If it is really quiet, treat as a high speed chicane, four lanes is better than three and helps prevent squared off tyres!!! ::) A wee wave of acknowledgement/indication with the left hand as you pass the right wing often stirs people from their tauper! ;)
After the inability of local authorities to repair the damage of winter 2009/10 and the extended 10 weeks of permafrost damage up here 2010/11, GO CANNY! ??? ??? The 'buck passing' of the tw*t from the CONDEM's, whom passes for the Transport Minister on the Radio 4 news programme 'Morning', was laughable if it wasn't so serious (LINK: Potholes, 1:23.00 from beginning of prgramme for ~6 mins. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00yqp8b/Today_23_02_2011/)). Please listen and consider! :( :( :( :( :(
Start a new thread if you prefer.
Just be careful when ear 'oling! ??? ???
Toodle pip, Bill.
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Not many folk will agree with me here but I quite appreciate potholes. My bikes cope well with them and it keeps the oiks away from Mid Wales. Less race replicas, more adventure bikes.
My last car was brilliant with them too.
If I could find a way I would have our local tarmac roads ploughed and all plans to put a motorway into Mid Wales cursed.
<cue moving this to the rants sections>
Richard
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Glad I wasnt the only one !
Like Andy tuned left out of Dragon site pootled along for a while and then had to slow down to snails pace behind sports bike in middle of lane bolt upright around all of the corners.
And like Andy I'm on an outfit with several more behind me all going dead slow.
Did manage to get past eventually,stop for petrol in Betws.And then behind a group doing the same.
I think lack of experiance and common sense !
Have spoken to several Born Agains and Novices and they believe a Track day the way to go to learn to ride properly.
Cant see it myself...not for the road. Something like Bikesafe or other Advanced type courses are specifically for the road and its varying circumstances.
But there again have been riding for years,all year round and done a couple of courses.
Not a weekend warrior with the latest whizzbang thingy,concerned about looking good or like my hero on the race track !
But the Tossers do pay my wages !
Jethro
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Good topic, and I did learn something to put to good use.
Steve C222 stated a 750 of the 70's is not a 750 of today, is right on the mark and goes as well for the 250's too.
One of our concerns with the club is to update a newbie reborn rider to a current level while out on rides with us.
It is not only the bike though, but also riding conditions that have changed. More cars and trucks, more congestion, more dickheads that don't indicate lane changes, mobile phonatics that don't care if they are driving in a dangerous manner, speed cameras reducing concentration on riding while concentrating looking for them. Poor road signage and surfaces and government indifference to motorcycles. All these combine to make a sizeable barrier to getting on a bike and reliving the past. Our club also subsidises approved (re)training courses to anyone wanting to improve their skills.
We cringe every time we hear about senior riders being involved in accidents, as we tend to see ourselves in those situations.
We as a whole cannot be complacent about road safety.
Squids (underclothed riders thinking they are invincible) will always use smarty answers and comments when their lack of appropriate clothing is brought up.
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Personally I believe riding a slow bike helps to improve your lines.
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'Tis true, what skills I've got have been learnt the hard way over many years of numptie riding. SteveLs' quite right, go back 30 years and I was an ar5e on a bike. I sometimes look back and wonder how I'm still here. Even now I must admit to a bit of auto-pilot poor riding, never more so than travelling up to the Dragon fully loaded and unable to steer the bike round a corner. Took till the home trip to fully (re)master how to enter/exit a bend and hold road speed.
My view of born-agains has changed somewhat. Good on 'em I say. Sadly we need pleasure riders to drive the bike industry forward as bikes are no longer considered (in the West at least) as utility vehicles. An ar5e on a bike is firstly an ar5e. The bikey bit is insidental. I just hope they 'wise up' quickly for all our sakes.
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interesting topic this one. Aside from the nc30 i've just got rid of and and 85 gpz6 fighter i built about 10 years ago i've only ever had road bikes, and most of them have been singles or twins of the old variety. now i don't know about any of you lot, but in my experience older road style bike crash a lot better than racer type ones, be that because of the speeds travelled or the construction of the machine in question. This i have found very useful, as in the last 18 years of riding i have come off a lot and like sqirrelciv says, was a complete ar5e when i first started riding. admitedly most of my offs were slow speed and pretty harmless, ie the odd bruise and bent lever but these are what teaches you, the rider, respect for the road, your machine, and other road users. modern riders dont seem to get that as they buy very expensive new machines as opposed to how i started off (and i'm sure i'm not the only one here) on old sheds that was all i could afford. I had to keep it on the road as i couldnt afford to have someone else work on it, and therefore had to find the best way round a corner else it would fall over and crash. it is,however much easier to find the limit on a gs250t than it is on a cbr900rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. When i found the limit i could back off, when matey on his cbr900rrrrrrrrrrrrrr finds the limit he's lucky if he escapes a trip to hospital. i think a lot of rider skill is missing these days but i also think its down tho the culture that surrounds newer biker types, that being they dont go through the kak bike and crashing phase, they just get a million horsepower space ship. however,it is bloody good fun passing people who are on the latest and greatest, on an old srx on the brakes with the back wheel skipping off the deck :) :) :) :) :)
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I train people to ride bikes for a living. Or to be specific I train them to pass their bike tests. To pass a DSA test on the road you need to take a central position within the lane. The reasoning is that safety for novice riders is more important than road position. Their logic is that if you can't see far enough around a corner then go slower.
This works well enough in a training/test scenario but doesn't prepare for real life riding when most riders wish to "make progress"
I stress to all my successful candidates that they should undertake some kind of further training either with qualified DSA instructors like myself or others to understand how to ride more safely in the real world.
A couple of you mentioned Bikesafe. This is absolutely brilliant value for money and I guarantee that whether you're a novice or an cynical "done it all" type you will benefit from the day(s) if you can approach with an open mind.
With regard to riding back from the Dragon. For the first 30 miles I was riding like a twat, I just couldn't get into any kind of groove,my lines were aw full, I was slow and frankly a bit of a danger to the North Wales wildlife.
OZ
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With regard to riding back from the Dragon. For the first 30 miles I was riding like a *******, I just couldn't get into any kind of groove,my lines were aw full, I was slow and frankly a bit of a danger to the North Wales wildlife.
No Change there then OZ, you were lucky, most had a hangover!!
Furry
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Interesting thread. I had a good trip back across north wales from the dragon trying to find as many castles as I could. Making progress as they say. Passed a lot of bikes in the rain but none passed me. I ride to work most days in the rain so am used to it. If you are a fair weather biker then it can seem a bit frightening not having the same grip with cold wet tyres.
All my driver/ bike training is based observations, interpreting them and then acting upon them, road positioning is just an aid to increasing the distance that you can see not an aim in itself. One of my instructors wanted to even know what was on the horizon 15 miles away, I think he was a bit anal. What I mean to say as Richard pointed out, is that it is what you do with this information which is important not the information itself.
Mud on the road means it is slippery also what left it there, slowing down and altering our lean angle should come as a natural reaction. Is it natural though? I have been on the roads since 1976 and like most of the club members have also learnt in the school of hard knocks. Falling off hurts and is expensive. Remember common sense is not always common.
IAM training and bike safe days are a great way to improve our riding none of us are perfect and we all slip into bad habits.
I too am not a great lover of riding in groups either they are too slow or too fast. I do however like riding with the odd motorcyclist especially if they are good as I try to learn off them or brush up on my own riding. Following a rider who correctly lines up a series of bends and overtakes in a safe manner making good progress is a pleasure to watch.
time for bed said zebideeeeeeeee
beeman
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As Beeman, I've been riding (and falling off) for lots of years. In the old days.. (time for a monty Python interlude... you were lucky!!!) learning on old Brit bikes with cr*p brakes you either learned lines and maintained cornering speed, rode very slowly or crashed a lot :o
I have picked up lots of bad habits, but 2 principles apply for me:
1. Assume all other road users either can't see you or want to kill you.
2. If the road is empty, its all yours to pick the best line.... and the best line usually gives the best view through the bend.
Really, "the line" is just logic... move over to where you can best see the way though a bend, and wind on the throttle as soon as you can see the exit... then hope that there isn't a diesel spill, wet leaves, black ice........ :D
I'm still alive and having fast fun 41 years after my first bike 8)
Pure luck, nowt else!
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Excellent thread and there's not much I can add to the debate other than to say that imho an IAM course is a fantastic investment for any rider, be they a relative novice or a grizzled old-timer. What I learned on my IAM course isn't always put into practice, but I know that it has saved my bacon on many occasions.
My brother made a good point a few years ago. He said that a lot of born-agains ride like they are driving a car, especially when it comes to overtaking. That's because all they have done for years is drive a car. Watch some born-agains this summer and you will see that he is right, a biker overtakes in a very sinuous, fluid manner, a BA will pull right out, maintain a rigid wide line past the overtaken vehicle and then do a sharp return to their lane.
All this talk of tractors reminds me of the Ixion biking forum term "fridge theory" meaning that you should ride as if a fridge has fallen off the back of a lorry around every blind corner ;)
As for squids... they are idiots. (edited to remove offensive remarks 27/02/11))
GC
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As for squids... they are scum. Any ******* on a bike in t-shirt and shorts gets what they deserve.
GC
Sorry you think that way.
Do you applaud all the "safety" legislation all us suckers have to comply with?
Ready to wear your compulsory airbag suit that could be on its way?
T-shirt, shorts, no helmet; most of the guys where I live ride that way in high summer. Are they scum?
When the temp is warm I ride fast wearing cargo pants, t-shirt, gloves, minimal scooter helmet.... I don't hope for the worst for those who sweat and look miserable in their full body armour, I just think "hey... where's the fun in that?"
I prefer not to be called scum because I like to have fun riding comfortably dressed. (just like sex without a condom is soooo much better)
(think it's time I left this site :'( )
As a vegetarian, I think that anyone who eats the flesh of or wears the skin of a dead animal is... ??? Wrong, misguided, but not scum!
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When I was 16 with my first moped (Puch Maxi), one of the lads in the village had a Malaguti Olympic sports moped ( remember them) and was the envy of all us 16 year olds. He thought he was really the kiddy, and during the summer evenings would thrash around the village in shorts and sandals being Mr cool. Unfortuantely one day he was trashing round the village when he found out the hard way that bikes and newly graveled roads don't mix...fell off at 40ish straight up the road on his back ...no t shirt.. he literally skinned his back, looked like he'd been attacked with a giant cheese grater and spent the rest of the summer laying on his stomach while his back healed.
Since then I've always made at least a token effort to cover up even in the hottest summers, not always full safety gear, but at least some sort of jacket over the t shirt, jeans and gloves.
(http://digilander.libero.it/gipp1/motori/malaguti/malaguti-olympique-40-RS-1975.jpg)
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"Scum" might be a bit harsh, but those who choose not to wear protective clothing do deserve what they get (and I'm including myself here as I don't aways wear full protective clothing). As I see it, you know the risks, you make your choice. However, it has to be said if enough go without and get injured as a result, then governments will impose it on us and we will be wearing air bags and shin guards.
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+1 Pat. I think I'd have used the word idiot (or misinformed depending how much I'd had to drink).
If this weather keeps up, we'll have the summer roadkill season on us early. There seems to be a lack of joined up thinking. We have riders on machinery with a better power to weight ratio than early fighter aircraft, with "20-minuter" training and faith that leathers like Valentino Rossis and a £500 lump of polystyrene makes them bullet proof. We have guys who think that something with bad brakes and bad handling should be ridden at 40 mph, three inches in front of a hacked off lorry driver while wearing a fashion jacket and fake plastic bosch helmet. We then have a huge fight over the shop-to-be-safe versus slow-to-be-safe ideas, the think-to-be-safe minority being ignored as not macho enough/too much like hard work.
Like it or not we operate a layered defence. The decision to ride or not that day depending on conditions, our own physical state, the state of the bike. The way we ride and how much training we've had and can put into practice. The level of comfort and how much of a reduction on our ability to detect threats our riding gear puts on us, with finally the level of collision protection it provides. To ignore training and ability and totally rely on racetrack crash protection (The race track is a different enviroment unless they've started chucking cow **** on the chicanes and using ****ed up tractor drivers to add a bit of variantion) is to me just a mad as a total reliance on your skill not to crash. The balance is different for each trip and the hideous yank ATGATT matra is over simplistic.
If we don't control the extremeists ourselves, our nanny state will do something pointless and impractical. It seems to be hearts and minds though, convincing riders that if they could ride like Valentino they'd be on the track, not at a cafe ten miles from home watching the ambulances roll by.
Andy
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(think it's time I left this site :'( )
I think this is one of those classic forum moments when I forgot that perhaps only I knew what was in my mind when I typed ::)
Sorry if my post came across as bombastic and offensive. I think I should have qualified the statement. When I said Squid I was thinking of the riders who (in the Brief British summer) ride very high powered sportsbikes at high speed dressed completely inappropriately. I'm not a safety nut, but I think part of having some sort of civic conscience (let alone any love for your family) is in not engaging in very dangerous activity without taking reasonable precautions. I'm sure others here have seen the consequences of bare skin hitting tarmac at speed and the cost, emotional and financial, is massive.
Every time one of these cheerfully optimistic speed merchants hits the deck it bumps up our accident statistics a treat. What would have been a slide, roll and embarrassed walk back to a lightly damaged bike becomes an ambulance ride and (god forbid) possible fatality.
Of course each and every one of us is free to make their own decision about what to wear when riding a bike, but is it unreasonable to suggest that if you intend scratching the B roads of Britain then perhaps bare legs and arms are not ideal?
So, to summarise my rambling apology, when I said Squids are scum I had a very specific rider group in mind and would never imply that all riders are scum because they choose to wear light clothing when they ride. I apologise if I offended any of the good souls on this site.
GC
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AND...
(think it's time I left this site :'( )
DON"T GO!
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5211/5478105807_9afdc3a27a.jpg)
GC ;)
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I've just been checking out the issue of 'undertaking', which I've never been sure about. Wikipedia says this:
Highway Code rule 268 advises against undertaking on a motorway: "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake"[4]. On other roads you can "only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right" (rule 163). On all roads, undertaking is permitted if the vehicles in the lane to the right are queueing and slow moving.[5] Undertaking in an aggressive or reckless manner could be considered Careless Driving or more seriously Dangerous Driving, both of which are legally enforceable offences.
Elsewhere on the net I found a case where a motorcyclist had been charged with dangerous driving for undertaking a solitary car on a motorway. In court the charge was reduced to the (less serious) charge of careless driving, and he was advised by his brief to plead guilty, which he did.
It seems that we probably shouldn't undertake those solitary dozy drivers. Unless we're quite sure there are no coppers about, anyway....
Martin
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Well that's as clear as mud.
So, at the risk of displaying my ignorance toward the whole biker lingo thing, what the hell is an ATTGATT and what have you fellas got against cephalopods?
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" All The Gear All The Time"
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cephalopods are not in danger,
Stupid
Quick
Underdressed
Imminently
Dead
are, and they give the rest of us a lot of shyte because they make up for a lot of the statistics for the govts worldwide to make us look like a high risk group that needs to be mollicoddled and discouraged by inane legislatipon. OOOPS rant coming up!! Sorry!
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Final post:
58 years old, a squid, still alive and riding after 41 years.
Would give up biking if I had to be like you.
Goodbye all!
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Stay with It "El V". It's only peoples Opinions and you can give as much back as you want don't forget. 8)
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Final post:
58 years old, a squid, still alive and riding after 41 years.
Would give up biking if I had to be like you.
Goodbye all!
Bye bye.
Sad to see you go, but not surprised. You did display quite a self centred attitude so a bit of [generalised] critisism was never going to be well recieved. Shame, people here have big hearts and a great deal of collective wisdom that even 58 year old 'know everythings' would do well to listen to, even if they don't follow.
The very best of life to you and I hope you prove to be right. With you health and well being at stake, this is one debate I'm glad to be proved wrong on.
Should you ever decide to get off your that rather tall equestrian creature of yours please be assured of a warm welcome back.
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Steady Squirrel, if we weren't a bunch of opinionated gits would we be here? and would the forum be as interesting as it (sometimes!) is? :)
Broad church and all that ;)
As I have pointed out elsewhere, if we can all agree to still be friends even when we discuss what's the best camping stove fuel* then we must be doing something right.
And just to qualify my original post, I take the term Squid to mean someone who rides in a very very stupid manner when wearing inappropriate bike clothing. I didn't intend it to cover the riders (er... all of us surely?) who, when they choose to wear light clothing, ride accordingly (i.e. that don't pull 100mph+ wheelies or razz sportsbikes along dual carriageways at 130mph). Within the limits of my understanding of the term Squid I stand by my original post, but I will return to it now and replace 'scum' with 'idiot' because I was wrong to use that term.
In conclusion can I add that this has, despite its troubles, been a very interesting thread.
GC
* for forum newbies, camping stove fuel has been a long-running topic of conversation that, despite how often it comes up, never changes either side's opinions. It's a bit like the old Lancs/Yorks thing, but may run on for longer ;)
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Steady Squirrel, if we weren't a bunch of opinionated gits would we be here? and would the forum be as interesting as it (sometimes!) is? :)
Broad church and all that ;)
I think that's my point isn't it? ??? Lots of wise men with strong views on all topics... A great place for an open mind to test its own 'A priory' or gain valuable insight from others.
As for the liquid/gas stove debate... A fine example of some 'opinionated gits' getting it hideously wrong... and not backing gas! ;D ;D ;D ;D (side cars are wrong too :o)
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Steady Squirrel, if we weren't a bunch of opinionated gits would we be here? and would the forum be as interesting as it (sometimes!) is? :)
Broad church and all that ;)
I think that's my point isn't it? ??? Lots of wise men with strong views on all topics... A great place for an open mind to test its own 'A priory' or gain valuable insight from others.
As for the liquid/gas stove debate... A fine example of some 'opinionated gits' getting it hideously wrong... and not backing gas! ;D ;D ;D ;D (side cars are wrong too :o)
I was with you there for a while Pat. If El Vencejo doesn't want to consider that advanced riding techniques and better kit are possibly a good thing then so be it, we'll agree to differ. I'm certainly going to agree that there are certain times I do ride like a prat and others when I just grab a lid and go, I just try and think what I can do better when I look back at each ride. If I ever catch myself sounding like a Superbikes Journalist (Knee down Knee down, wheelie, knee down), you can shoot me though. If you won't discuss this, what's the point in joining a discussion group?
Anyway: Landrovers are ****, Petrol stoves rule !!
Andy
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(side cars are wrong too :o)
There are so many things in my life that have been 'wrong', but by God I've enjoyed them :D
I was going to quote some examples, but maybe best not to ;)
With a slight veer back to the thread, I rode up to Hereford yesterday via the A466 out of Monmouth, a minor A road. I haven't ridden it before and I attacked it using the 'system', good sight lines and proper road positioning, etc. However, the overly stiff aftermarket shocks on the ER5 made it really difficult to maintain decent lines over the bumps. A salutory lesson in why bikes should be properly set up to get the best from them.
GC
And yes, Landrovers are shite, but that's their 'charm'.
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Yes Andy Landrovers are **** , I had one once though I must admit it was terrific on bush tracks. It still is, out there somewhere near Walhalla.
BTW GAS rules!!
why f@#$ up around with something that can leak out all over the kit?
The word is fuel, not f$#k, OK!
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******* Off !
I like my Land Lady...! A bit Thirsty....but I like her.
Petrol Stoves and Sidecars are Great !
I have ridden....and fallen off whilst wearing a T-shirt.......Yes it Hurt....and I am SCUM !
Ridden with out helmet for several hundreds of miles....on a Trike !
Still ride without Jacket and gloves wearing soft footwear,but only on an outfit or trike.
Jethro......thats it I'm off !!!!!!! :P ;)
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Ooh, look what I've found....
.... A dummy! ;D
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Hang on, I've found something too...
(http://starsinfashion.com/Prada-handbag-photo.jpg)
:D :D :D :D
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Thank You Guys !
I can now Spit it out and Beat the pair of you around the head for upsetting people.
Then Run over you with my Land Lady,set you on fire with Petrol stove and finally drag you about by the Outfit !
Jethro :P :P
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Jethro, when you leave....
SHUT THAT DOOR!
(http://www.ukgameshows.com/p/images/2/29/Larry_grayson_bw_headshot.jpg)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
LOL. I have to say, my mood has lightened in the last few posts. It's good to be back with frivolous banter, cheap insults and
silly jokes.
Ahhhhh, order is restored :)
GC
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As for Squid, a Google images search of the term 'motorcycle squid' turned this up:
(http://vfrworld.com/photos/data/718/squid102.jpg)
It would be nice to think that the big rucksack will cushion her fall, but in reality it's going to do a number on her collarbones :( The irony being that their jackets are probably in it.
GC
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Nice handbag. Good place to keep my two stroke oil.
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Nice handbag. Good place to keep my two stroke oil.
Now, imagine that being the subject of a police search...
"'ello, 'ello,'ello, what do we 'ave 'ere then?"
"But it's for my bike"
"Of course it is sir...
;) :D
GC
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(side cars are wrong too :o)
There are so many things in my life that have been 'wrong', but by God I've enjoyed them :D
I was going to quote some examples, but maybe best not to ;)
GC
Go on, what was your wifes mother like? ;D
[/quote]As I have pointed out elsewhere, if we can all agree to still be friends even when we discuss what's the best camping stove fuel* then we must be doing something right.
GC
[/quote]
Careful now,,,,don't bite. :D
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Way up the situation and wear what you feel suits your situation and mindset at the time.
On busy wet british roads I'm happy in my leather trousers and waxed cotton jacket, never had the inserted protection and never will as I find it uncomfortable and restrictive. I have many years of experience and feel I no longer ride to the limit so am confident in my chances.
When in rural Spain I have travelled in shorts and t shirt but always army boots and gloves(my mam said I always had to wear these cos she aint gonna wipe my butt) but you can see for miles, no traffic and taking it easy all adds to the experience.
When it comes to the BA brigade whether wearing t shirt or full leathers when they have an accident they are dead, the leathers just makes the end package a little bit tidier.
Mark
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As for Squid, a Google images search of the term 'motorcycle squid' turned this up:
(http://vfrworld.com/photos/data/718/squid102.jpg)
It would be nice to think that the big rucksack will cushion her fall, but in reality it's going to do a number on her collarbones :( The irony being that their jackets are probably in it.
GC
From the position of the front wheel the next move looks as though it will be very painful indeed and I dread to think what will happen to naked flesh at that speed when it meets the tarmac.
I for one always wear all of my bike gear because I very rarely do day rides and when I go off it's usually for a weekend and the weather is usually cold and I have quite a few miles to travel. I feel comfartable and warm in the gear that I have and usually use it when trailing as well. I haven't had an occasion to try out the effectiveness of the crashability of the gear but my opinion is that if the situation arose then wouldn't I be silly to have a good set of gear at home when I really needed it!
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" I feel comfartable and warm "
Nothing can compete with gas fired underpants when it comes to warmth hey SteveD. Funny, I thought you were a liquid fuel guy. ???
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" I feel comfartable and warm "
Nothing can compete with gas fired underpants when it comes to warmth hey SteveD. Funny, I thought you were a liquid fuel guy. ???
I thought that's what the dry suit under the gear was for! No need for the 'comfart break' either! ???
More beer for the hot water bottle! Ideal rally wear. ::)
'Nightly'