XBR 500 Chain and Sprockets.

[welland99]

Thanks everyone. 

Steve: that's a really handy website.  Just what I was looking for.  And handy that the XBR is already listed. 

Bill:  I can understand the theory of giving the chain an easier life by increasing the sprocket size.  And, an increase in the front sprocket in particular will help the front sprocket life.  An increase in 1 tooth at the front is approximately the same as reduction in 2 at the rear.  I'll see what sizes I can find, but at the moment, fancy just increasing the front by 1 tooth to 16. 

[themoudie]

Aye welland99,

You may find that without extra grunt from the motor, the bike is a bit sluggish in acceleration, not achieve the same top speed up a gradient or with a headwind and will probably run happier in 4th than 5th on some the restricted road speed areas like 50mph or down the 'B' and 'Unclassified' roads, if they are your preference. You may also find that in the 30mph areas you have to come down the box a cog more than at present.

All the best, Bill

[welland99]

Hi Bill,
Yes, I fully understand that I may need to change down to a lower gear than present to achieve the same acceleration I have now, but I don't think that will be a problem. 
Peter

[SteveC#222]

Wemoto stock rear sprockets at +1 +2 & +3 teeth and front sprocket at -1 tooth. Just watch the front sprockets as there were 2 different ones and I don't think they are interchangeable.

http://www.wemoto.co.uk/bikes/honda/xbr_500_f_g/85-87/

[themoudie]

Aye Peter,

I didn't think it would be a problem    but sometimes I'm no too sure about the written word conveying the results of my synapses firing off! 

All the best, Bill

[Propellor]

With respect to what bill has done in keeping the same ratio but using larger sprockets, one thing (a benefit) is that with larger sprockets for any given torque the load (pull) on the chain decreases. So does the load on the supporting bearing and even the shaft (oo er). The trade off is increased circumferential speed (chain speed). Larger sprockets (and/or smaller pitch) can only help minimize the  chordal effect I would imagine?

I wonder if a heavier chain with a higher inertia value might actually be of some benefit on a thumping single?

I prefer a lower geared bike, but that's just my preference.


Cheers folks. 

[themoudie]

Aye Propeller,

Used to run 5/8 x 3/8 (530) Renold's best that is standard pitch, on the Duke 450, with a 12 tooth gearbox sprocket and a 32 tooth rear sprocket, and found that I had reduced it to knicker elastic by 5,000 miles. Going up to a 13 tooth sprocket on the gearbox and 35 tooth rear gave about an extra 1,000 miles and similar gearing. However, there was a time in the mid to late '90's when 450 13T 530 gearbox sprockets were not available and the gearbox sprocket from a Honda CD175 with 17 teeth was a direct fit + a spacer to space the sprocket out from the gearbox. This is a 428 chain and with a 45 tooth rear sprocket readily available for the 250 - 350 Ducati racers, this provided the desired ratio and good mileage, 6,000 - 7,000miles before the knicker elastic syndrome returned.

Lack of lubrication and 'thumping' in a high gear, I believe, wreck havoc with a chain and maybe the increased mass of the individual components in the 530 chain could contribute to it's greater longevity on the bigger sprockets. I also know that Ducati singles taken out to 490cc for racing, run 428 chain very succesfully, without increased wear on the chain or sprockets. Good lubrication and not lugging the motor make all the difference.

Happy cantering, Bill

[Propellor]

Aye Propeller,

Used to run 5/8 x 3/8 (530) Renold's best that is standard pitch, on the Duke 450, with a 12 tooth gearbox sprocket and a 32 tooth rear sprocket, and found that I had reduced it to knicker elastic by 5,000 miles. Going up to a 13 tooth sprocket on the gearbox and 35 tooth rear gave about an extra 1,000 miles and similar gearing. However, there was a time in the mid to late '90's when 450 13T 530 gearbox sprockets were not available and the gearbox sprocket from a Honda CD175 with 17 teeth was a direct fit + a spacer to space the sprocket out from the gearbox. This is a 428 chain and with a 45 tooth rear sprocket readily available for the 250 - 350 Ducati racers, this provided the desired ratio and good mileage, 6,000 - 7,000miles before the knicker elastic syndrome returned.

Lack of lubrication and 'thumping' in a high gear, I believe, wreck havoc with a chain and maybe the increased mass of the individual components in the 530 chain could contribute to it's greater longevity on the bigger sprockets. I also know that Ducati singles taken out to 490cc for racing, run 428 chain very succesfully, without increased wear on the chain or sprockets. Good lubrication and not lugging the motor make all the difference.

Happy cantering, Bill

It's true what you say Bill, although what I had in mind with respect to the higher inertia is the reluctance to react to the on/off pulses of a thumper. Especially running on larger diameter sprockets (more momentum).

One can imagine two scenarios. One with a lightweight chain of high material spec and hollow pins, the other much heavier, lower material spec and solid pins. Both capable of meeting the load requirements but having widely different inertia values. There'd be pros and cons with higher inertia but I can't help thinking that, on a thumper, the higher inertia value pros would outweigh the cons. Dunno. Speculation really. 

[welland99]

Wemoto stock rear sprockets at +1 +2 & +3 teeth and front sprocket at -1 tooth. Just watch the front sprockets as there were 2 different ones and I don't think they are interchangeable.

http://www.wemoto.co.uk/bikes/honda/xbr_500_f_g/85-87/

Thanks Steve,
I had heard that there are two different types of front sprocket, and I'm just trying to work out which I have. 

All the options for front and rear at Wemoto will lower the gearing, rather than raise it. That's a shame. 

[welland99]

Wemoto stock rear sprockets at +1 +2 & +3 teeth and front sprocket at -1 tooth. Just watch the front sprockets as there were 2 different ones and I don't think they are interchangeable.

http://www.wemoto.co.uk/bikes/honda/xbr_500_f_g/85-87/

Thanks Steve,
I had heard that there are two different types of front sprocket, and I'm just trying to work out which I have. 

All the options for front and rear at Wemoto will lower the gearing, rather than raise it. That's a shame.

I just realised that for the F and G variants, the wemoto site shows 16 teeth in the diagram for both the standard front sprocket and the "less 1 tooth" variant. 

No matter, as mine is an H, and they do offer a "plus 1 tooth" variant with 16 teeth.   

[guest2083]

Just out of interest, can you over-oil a chain? I brush on chainsaw oil, and how I know my chains are well oiled, is that the rims of my back tyres are black with oil. Helps preserve them too 

I'd say not, and it's interesting to me to find someone else using chainsaw oil as well, although I thin mine a little with old engine oil thinking that might penetrate the links a bit better. Always trying to save a little money as well. It all helps to preserve the bike through the winter for sure, back wheel cleans up pretty good come the spring

[themoudie]

Aye Hondapartsman,

You are not alone with using chainsaw oil for your chains, in my trade it makes sense and is relatively cheap these days. However, I would advise that the veggie alternatives are a "NO! NO!", as they do not have the lubricosity or protective qualities of mineral oil and can reduce the chain to a clagged up, rusty mess in short order. Similar to leaving castor oil in your sump over the winter! 

As for "thinning" it out, I wouldn't bother, it just means more oil gets flung off, rather than sticking to the bits you wish to lube!    Also the abrasive carbon particles etc found in old sump oil aren't going to help lubricate rollers, pins and little rubber seals, if you use that sort of chain.

Linklyfe on the kitchen cooker is still used by some of us on straight chains. The aroma is marvellous and masks, smoked fish dish or vindaloo dish smells!    Just don't spill it or drip the contents on the floor or your skin. Your partner/cohabitee may have other ideas! 

Power to your fleet.

My regards, Bill

[welland99]

Just out of interest, can you over-oil a chain? I brush on chainsaw oil, and how I know my chains are well oiled, is that the rims of my back tyres are black with oil. Helps preserve them too 

I'd say not, and it's interesting to me to find someone else using chainsaw oil as well, although I thin mine a little with old engine oil thinking that might penetrate the links a bit better. Always trying to save a little money as well. It all helps to preserve the bike through the winter for sure, back wheel cleans up pretty good come the spring

Does chainsaw oil have a viscosity grade?  I brush EP80 gear oil on my old chain.  When I get my new chain, should I be thinking of using something better / different?

[SteveC#222]

Just out of interest, can you over-oil a chain? I brush on chainsaw oil, and how I know my chains are well oiled, is that the rims of my back tyres are black with oil. Helps preserve them too 

I'd say not, and it's interesting to me to find someone else using chainsaw oil as well, although I thin mine a little with old engine oil thinking that might penetrate the links a bit better. Always trying to save a little money as well. It all helps to preserve the bike through the winter for sure, back wheel cleans up pretty good come the spring

Does chainsaw oil have a viscosity grade?  I brush EP80 gear oil on my old chain.  When I get my new chain, should I be thinking of using something better / different?

Get yourself a Loobman chain oiler - £20, works well, uses any oil ( I use the cheapest engine oil I can find) and keeps the chain in great shape. I've had one for years and hardly ever need to adjust my chain.

http://www.loobman.co.uk/

[guest2083]

Just out of interest, can you over-oil a chain? I brush on chainsaw oil, and how I know my chains are well oiled, is that the rims of my back tyres are black with oil. Helps preserve them too 

I'd say not, and it's interesting to me to find someone else using chainsaw oil as well, although I thin mine a little with old engine oil thinking that might penetrate the links a bit better. Always trying to save a little money as well. It all helps to preserve the bike through the winter for sure, back wheel cleans up pretty good come the spring

Does chainsaw oil have a viscosity grade?  I brush EP80 gear oil on my old chain.  When I get my new chain, should I be thinking of using something better / different?

Get yourself a Loobman chain oiler - £20, works well, uses any oil ( I use the cheapest engine oil I can find) and keeps the chain in great shape. I've had one for years and hardly ever need to adjust my chain.

http://www.loobman.co.uk/

Thank you, I'll give that serious consideration, they say buy three get one free, so that would be most of my bikes covered and the CD being a sensible bike with a FERC probably could do without one, the Ascot is shaft drive. All I'd have to do is find £60 in one go, that would be the hardest ask.