In the age of global warming......

[squirrelciv]

.......can we justify using fosil fuelled vehicles PURELY for pleasure???

DISCUSS!





(lights touch paper and retreats)

[hondamichael]

of course we can , my bike has a kat , i get easy near 100mpg out of it while doing 70mph on the motorway
so its very friendly to the enviroment compare to other bikes which waste more fuel , i mean you can`t justify 40mpg on a bike , there are already people carrier out there which have a better mpg

[guest7]

It's getting to the point where you'd have to say no. But then let's consider our individual carbon footprints. Sure, if we all gave up dirt biking and scratching then we might reduce our emissions by, erm, perhaps the amount generated by a number of jets flying holidaymakers to Marbella or the amount of fuel used to power all those offices that leave their lights on overnight.

Small strokes are important to the overall picture, but it's the larger strokes of corporate change that will make a difference.

There was a time that I cycled to work all week and used the bike on the weekend and it has to be said that I did feel a smug glow of satisfaction in offsetting my limited use of fossil fuels.

GC

[andy230]

I feel fine about it- ofsetting my current carbon footprint by running the garage off solar, and the van on veg oil.

Neither of which I do currently, but will do soon.

(sounding rather like a politician there, admittedly)

)

a

[Andy M]

Moderation and making sense of the big picture has to be the key IMHO.

How may flights to Florida or Spain do I get for a years worth of bike carbon footprint?
Should we ban beer? It uses fuel to make and it's a leisure activity?
How much energy does it take to scrap my bikes and turn out the hand carts and bicycles?
Should sex and gardening be the only leisure activities as in our greener past?

Panic is the key to making the whole thing a massive disaster. Lets scrap all the cars and bikes and build lots of electric buses, plus the Atomic power stations to charge their rare metal batteries. We can build a coal powered station to power the mine where the lithium comes from!

As the actual picture is so big and complicated the only way to deal with it is in small steps. Sure, new bikes should do 80 mpg and put out less than 100mg/km etc. New power stations should have the best technology possible. We should make it easier to recycle what it's worth recycling, keep using what works, make it easier for people to work at home and so on.

BTW, biking is not only a leisure activity. I ride to work every day. I only use a car for business trips (company forces me, can we have a law that taxes their low use pool car?) and shopping (VAT refund on deliveries by greener vehicle?). My "big" bike does 52 mpg, way better than the company MundaneO BTW.

If you want to start a fight, I can think of a great way to save a fair bit of pollution. Get rid of that near empty bus (contains driver, 1 meths fueled nutter and a teenager with a large collection of rap music and a £1000 worth of mobile stereo) that I pass twice a day!

Andy

[squirrelciv]

Chaps, the question relates to leisure riding not biking in general. Sure, by using motorcycles, especially smaller, more economical ones, we are reducing our carbon output, and you could also argue that those of us still using 80's and 90's machines are helping to reduce factory emisions generated manufacturing new machines.

But can we now justify driving as well as riding purely for pleasure?? By that I mean hopping on the bike/in the car and going for a jolly. I'm not so sure we can. To be honest, I've never been that big on pleasure rides just for their own sake, but that's more to do with cost, time and family commitments plus I get to ride every day (near enough) with a just reason anyway (ie work/shopping/visiting etc)

I've been thinking about this quite a bit recently and am coming round to the view that at some piont we are all going to have to curb our pleasures for the greater good. If we don't something will curb them for us. I'm gearing up get my relaxation away from environmentally harming means and more from just the great outdoors.

[andy230]

Devil's Advocate, Pat!

I also don't ride much for "fun" these days, but am planning a jaunt round europe this summer.  I'm not flying, and its less pollution for me & the squaw than a car.

But presumably all motorsport would be deemed "pleasure".  I have thought that a weekend racing is pretty un-eco friendly (tho some grasstracks are using bioethanol I think).

-diesel for the van (veg oil?)
-engine oil
-tyres
-parts!
-the little bit of fuel that I get to burn

I agree completely that burning a tank of juice just for fun probably can't go on.  I personally don't, but as a scrawny(er) 17 year olds, we'd often get in a car or 2 & drive a hunderd miles in a night, just have a fire on a beach...  No longer!

Good debate tho mate!

a

[Paulgertie]

Guiltily I have to say no, but carry on doing it until forced otherwise. I feel my carbon footprint is smaller than most peoples, but I like my bikes and have an MG Midget and I ride/drive them for pleasure, though I do feel guilty about it sometimes. But I don't drink much, don't get out much, so might as well top myself now (burial, not cremation) and stop the guilt and any future polluting I will do. Would welcome the opportunity to do both activities in a less polluting way, even writing this is an indulgence and not necessary.
Paul

[steveD]

Yep, agreed Paul. I need my Transit for my business, it's a necessity and I ride my bikes for fun when I get the opportunity. I still recon my 'footprint' is smaller than the average household (all electric @£25/ month!)
I either ride my bikes (which do not congest the roads) or go sailing for my leisure and always camping. Just how far are we expected to go before we don't have a life at all? I work hard for a living and expect some free time in which I can relax and enjoy myself or what is the point?
Big businesses should take the lead in the 'carbon footprint' issue as they are the most polluting. Any person of intelligence can make some small impact on the whole issue and probably are more concerned than some of the big businesses that think only of profit before consequences.
Bottom line is that I will continue to ride my bikes purely for fun and consider any other means to help the environment.

........and if I get the opportunity I will get even more bikes!

SteveD

[themoudie]

I thought....................."Sod it!".

Or, feotal position and wait..........................!

The Chinese are coming and cockroaches will be here long after Homo sapiens.

The last one out had better turn the lights off! Bye!

[guest27]

Interesting thought - and one bound to occur to those who wish to curb pleasure.. moan moan moan.

However - it cannot be denied that we are part of the generations that have happily buggered up this place - we are all Nero's fiddling away.  Riding for pleasure - probably cannot be justified, but we will all try, as is being done.  We all need to make small steps towards being part of the solution, rather than paertof the problem, and I do not think we can just dump the infernal combustion engine just yet.

Big business - mmmmmmm - that will be the big business supplying us with the goods and services we demand at ever lower prices.

We are turning this place into a toilet, and we each need to take responsibility for our actions - rather than trying to justify them.  If you ride for pleasure - fine, say so, but do not try to say it is fine because you do not fly off to Florida etc.

The amount of fuel we use riding for pleasure does have an impact.  I will hold my hand up and say I would do it - because I enjoy it.

Seem to remember back in the 70's when there was the oil crisis, they looked at banning sports that consumed excessive amounts of fuel - intent to target motorsports, only to find that banning fishing would have saved about 10X as much fuel.

R

[Bill Rutter]

I try, I really do, to reduce my carbon footprint. Riding a pushbike or commuting by train is a good start. But then my Dawn leaves all the lights on and turns the heating right up if I'm not about and we use a taxi to get home from the pub for the sake  of a fifteen minute walk! Using my 650 for a bit of fun now and again seems insignificant when we are a two-car household. But the way I see it is I'm taxed to the hilt and I/we deserve to have some sort of leisure before I leave this mortal coil. Saving the planet is a concern for those that are really killing it....the big conglomerates(?)

[Andy M]

The human brain doesn't like inactivity and pretty much any activity uses energy or has some effect on the planet. If you don't ride your bike what will you do instead? Watch telly and use electricity, read a book printed on a cut down tree, go ride a push bike that's made in a factory, invent a new religion and plot world domination? Ok, the amount of damage varies but the alternative of sitting in a dark corner doesn't work either.

There are two ways to stop the disaster. We can stop what we are doing. This involves sitting in that dark corner for fun, stopping anyone in Asia or Africa having any hope of getting to our level of comfort, shooting 2/3 of the worlds population so the rest can live at our level and so on. No fun and honestly impractical as well as pretty nasty.

The other way is to get smarter. Recycle, use what we have better, share things out more equally. I have no problem cycling to work so I can use my share of the petrol for a trip to France if it means some hard working guy in China can have electricity 24 hours a day. I'd rather they invented fusion power so we can all have hydrogen powered superbikes, but not in out lifetime I guess. If I work harder than the guy in China I expect a bigger share, but it works the other way too. The problem is how we reach the point where there are sensible shares of the sustainable resources.

Small steps has to be the key, not massive revolutions based on one idea. A lot of motorsport is switching to bio-ethanol which is the most logical technology we have today (way better than the electric car brigade who seem to think the power for the charger comes from a magic imp). When we play we learn. Small steps hopefully filter to road bikes and make everyones share bigger. The sport in this case may or may not drive the change, so maybe we pay now for a gain later. The same can be said for thousands of touring riders demanding 100 mpg because petrol is £5 a litre. If the ideas don't come, motorsport and pleasure rides will die out naturally as people choose to spend what they are given differently.

OK, maybe we don't learn, but we wouldn't learn in that dark corner either.

Andy

[squirrelciv]

Some good points AndyM, but some awful assumptions too. Yes I would agree it is better to think our way out of the carbon crisis (after all we can't uninvent stuff) but to assume we can only sit in the dark without harming the environment is a little extreme.
Remember, carbon is an element and is constantly getting recycled by nature all the time. The problem now is one of volume and the planets systems for coping with it getting overloaded. Yes everything we do will create carbon emisions (even sitting in the dark, your breathing) it's a matter of degrees. Burning fossil fuels to travel from A-B puts more carbon into the air, than walking there. (bear in mind the human element is a constant as you will live the same amount of time and produce the same amount of carbon whether you sit in the dark or ride about on a rocket)
You can't sit there and tell me that it is as harmful to hill walk for a day as to ride a motorbike for the same amount of time.
To be honest here, I will still ride (a bit) for the hell of it and I can justify it because I've put in the effort to reduce my effects on the environment. I like to think it's like being on a diet and treating yourself to a curry at the end of the month :-)   

[Andy M]

I like to think it's like being on a diet and treating yourself to a curry at the end of the month :-)   

Brilliant analogy (mind if I borrow it elsewhere?)! We need to cut out the supersize burgers, eat more salad but have the odd curry so we don't go nuts.

Andy