Oil sudge in XBR engine

[richardeblack]

Hello All
Yet another issue with this bloomin XBR I am recommissioning.
I have finally got It nearly finished now with a good top end on it so hoping to be on the home run.
I took the engine covers off to polish them and found a lot of sludge in the engine, probably due to it standing for 20 years. As I found this after fitting the engine I can't face taking it out again and completely stripping it down.
I have bought some engine flushing treatment and was going to give it a try but wanted to see what others thought. Would I be better running with cheap oil or diesel engine oil for a few miles and giving a couple of oil and filter changes.
Any advice welcome.
Cheers
Richard.

[Itsme]

Hi Richard

I am certainly no expert on these matters but my thought is that if there are no metallic particles in the oil and if any filters, oil screens etc are clean and clear then I would be tempted to run the engine up to temp on cheap oil then change it. Then put cheap oil in again and do 100 or so miles then do an oil and filter change. If the oil is coming out clean at that stage I can't see a problem. But as I say I am no expert and I am sure more knowledgeable others will be along soon.

Oh and if I remember rightly the XBR is a dry sump engine so make sure the oil tank is clean also.

Spartacus

[themoudie]

Aye Richard,

For my pennysworth, I would disconnect the oil lines from the oil tank, strip it out from the bike and then give it a good flush with paraffin, until it runs clean, then a final swill with brake cleaner (BE CAREFUL WITH THE PAINT!!!!!!!!), before re-assembling onto the machine and oil lines.

With the bike on the sidestand, take the sump plug off and then using a syringe, flush the base of the sump out with paraffin, then get an aerosol can of brake cleaner, with a "straw", if possible and flush the whole of the sump out using the straw in the sump. If you have a magnetic "pick-up" sweep this around the sump and then, if you find no large ferrous 'bits'! If you do, may be another strip down to look at the gearbox is in order? Then give a final clean up with a lint free cotton rag.

Re-install the sump plug, torque up and fill up with a cheap mineral 10w/40 oil. Run the motor for a maximum of 25 miles to get everything hot and circulating and then dump all the oil. It should appear no more than slightly discoloured, if the paraffin and brake cleaner have done their job.

Now refill with a good motorcycle/wet clutch semi-synthetc 10w/40 oil and enjoy the fruit of your labours! 

This has worked for me on XT600, SRX600, Moto Morini 125 and other engines. However, it's much better to exercise your motorcycles regularly!

Good health, Bill

[Itsme]

See, I told you someone more knowledgeable would come along. If I were you I would follow Bill's advice as he certainly does know what he is talking about.

Spartacus

[themoudie]

Thank you for the compliment Spartacus, experience and fortunate trial and error! It doesn't always work out, but its nice when it does!

Good health, Bill

[richardeblack]

Thank you both.
I have taken the engine drain plug out and tipped the bike I've and will have a go with a syringe. I don't have paraffin but have diesel and heating oil. I assume there is no harm in substituting them.
I must say the sludge in the sump is not bad at all. Just what looks like combustion products separated out a bit leaving a combination of quite clean oil and some darker thicker oil. The sump drain plug is in the gearbox section of the cases.
I can't get the oil tank off the bike so will do my best with it in situ and the bike tipped over the other way.
Will it matter if there is some paraffin traces left in the oil tank and gearbox? I assume the first run with the oil will take that away and it will be a small quantity.
Is there any reason not to use the semi synthetic I normally run the bike on for the first run? The bike is not insured till Friday so will it be ok just running it on the stand till it is good and hot or will that not do the job?
Sorry for yet more questions.
Thanks again Bill and Spartacus.
As usual you are the fount of all knowledge Thumper wise Bill.
Cheers
Richard

[themoudie]

Aye Richard,

Will it matter if there is some paraffin traces left in the oil tank and gearbox?

So long as there are not puddles, it will probably be OK. Getting rid of the paraffin using the brake cleaner, is my way of doing it, as the brake cleaner evaporates after the sluicing.

Is there any reason not to use the semi synthetic I normally run the bike on for the first run?

None whatsoever, if that is all that you have and the bike doesn't require "running in"? It's because of the additives in the semi-synthetic oil provide such good lubrication that they can hinder the "running in" bedding in process of new components.

...... so will it be ok just running it on the stand till it is good and hot or will that not do the job?

Taking the bike out for a wee canter, will ensure that the oil gets sloshed about on all the bearing/contact surfaces, sitting on the centre stand may not be as effective. However, if you warm the engine through gently to start off and once up to temperature increase the throttle up to 4K to 5K, it will be better than doing nothing. Some might say it is a bit of overkill, but I think the wee canter near to home helps you familiarise yourself with the bike, you find any wee leaks or "strange noises", without being too far from home and you can dump the oil whilst everything is hot, all in one go. Nothing worse than finding a leak or weep, with the running oil in the tank and you have to drain it all off to cure the leak.

As a final tip, rather than paying silly money for branded oils try either 'Westway' [Westway_Oils_link], they sell direct or via eBay, or 'Smith+Allan' ['Smith+Allan'_link], who sell direct. Both produce good oils at very reasonable prices, IMHO, delivered to your door. On Friday last I ordered 20litres of oil from 'Smith+Allan' just before 14:00hrs and it was delivered this Monday morning to my door before 11:00hrs. All for under £75-00, whereas the Silkolene (Fuchs) equivilent, is just shy of £200-00 for the same quantity. 

Keep us posted.

Good health, Bill

[Moto63]

Evening gents, really enjoying reading this thread. As always some brilliant, sound advice given out. Some of which I knew, some of which is new to me. As they say. “Every day is a school day”
Best of luck with it Richard and as Bill says, “keep us posted”
Cheers, Michael

[richardeblack]

Thanks again Bill
I did as you suggested with paraffin an brake cleaner in the engine and followed with a flush through with clean oil.
I stripped out a spare oil tank to have a good look at where any detritus may collect. They are quite a thing.
 I decided that as it is a major job to get the tank off I took the feeds off and sorted out a system to inject clean oil down the supply pipe and a syringe with a tube on it to suck the oil and debris from the bottom of the tank. I had to do this as the sump of the tank is lower than the drain plug with no drain at the bottom. There is probably about 100ml left in the tank when it is drained. I kept going till the oil was coming out clean. I used about 300 or 400ml in the end.
I then primed the oil pipe and filled with oil.
I also primed all the oilways in the filter housing. Not sure if either are necessary.
Tomorrow it's out with the spark plug and spin the engine over to get the oil returning and feeding the cam box then start it. Unfortunately my insurance doesn't start till Friday so can't take it for a run.
I 'll update when I've had a chance to give it a run and let you know if the oil comes out reasonably clean.
Thanks for all the advice.
Cheers
Richard.

[themoudie]

No problem Richard. Reads as though the flushing is working well. Priming oilways with clean oil won't go amiss, you probably will achieve quicker oil return and feed to the cambox by doing it, than not. Oil is cheap, when compared with parts and labour costs.

All the best, Bill