Author Topic: Shine a light  (Read 1469 times)

iansoady

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2016, 11:51:52 AM »
Absolutely agree with both.

Do away with trident and use all those skills to build our own wind, wave and tidal generation then we won't be so much at the mercy of mad middle eastern or Russian dictators......
Ian.
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Propellor

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2016, 12:24:16 PM »
I'm "a fan" (pun) of wind and wave power. We're surrounded by both, so it should figure highly on our skills list.

I didn't realise that our present wind capability was as high as it is though. I do understand the problem with thermal generation. So common sense (which can easily be wrong!) would seem to say-right, fix the thermal input at a certain level of percent requirement, say 50%? Then use wind and wave and whatever else to constantly "trim" input to meet the constantly fluctuating demand. The problem, I guess, is that the pesky wind, can't be relied upon to be there, even though, once it is, the means of accurately moderating output is possible.

Here's a bit of a science fiction thought. We catch a certain amount of energy from the sun, whether we like it or not. But how much more of the energy kicked out by the sun escapes us? Kin huge amount. So, build craft which orbit the sun, harvesting the energy. Tether a docking port to the earth, into which these craft plug in and download their stored energy.
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iansoady

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2016, 04:42:16 PM »
You don't need to. Enough actually hits the earth to meet our needs many times over. I keep hearing people say we should develop fusion reactors - well there's a great big one hanging over our heads giving us all the energy we could ever want for free.

Wind is as you say unpredictable but tides certainly aren't. There's a tidal barrage at Rance in Brittany that's been pumping out power for decades - opened in 1966!

We could also make much better use of pumped storage such as at Ffestiniog and Dinorwic. Built by the publicly owned CEGB - can't see any of the privatised mob doing anything like that.
Ian.
1964 Norton Electra
1969 BSA-Suzuki-Steib S501 (the B'Zuki)
1948 BSA C11

Propellor

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2016, 06:37:14 PM »


There's a tidal barrage at Rance in Brittany that's been pumping out power for decades - opened in 1966!


You mean the one at dinard? I only knew that was there because my father in law told me whilst we were on a boat trip from dinan.

I don't know that much about these things but I'm guessing that the power produced depends on the head? If I'm right about that then the power produced will reach a peak at max head and dwindle as the head drops? But, if the turbines are designed accordingly, you'll catch it both ways, will you? All twice a day. The head will vary according to the lunar cycle?

How come we're not utilising it here?
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Propellor

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2016, 06:42:46 PM »
You don't need to. Enough actually hits the earth to meet our needs many times over. I keep hearing people say we should develop fusion reactors - well there's a great big one hanging over our heads giving us all the energy we could ever want for free.



I didn't realise that. So where is all the energy going then? Clearly we're not taking advantage of it, not on the scale you suggest is possible. Are we talking about the energy locked up in photons? Light.
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timbo

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2016, 08:17:19 PM »
A few years ago I read up about a Danish company called Vesta, the biggest producer of wind turbines in the world. It started off as a family run agri engineering business. Now multi million pound business, employing thousands all over the world. This should have, and could have been a UK company such as a shipyard struggling for new contracts, but yet again our short sighted government never gave it the push or incentives needed for this to happen  >:(
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 08:44:16 PM by timbo »
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johnr

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2016, 12:05:15 PM »
vesta have a plant in the uk building turbines, but its relatively small and the uk govt has set its course out against renewables because when you look at the companies who support the tory party and who sponsor and support individual mps, there are a hell of a lot of oil coal and gas companies paying the bills. wind has never made more sense, and we have lost the chance to lead in this field. and its not correct to say that the wind sometimes doesnt blow. what is more accurate is that the wind sometimes doesnt blow where you are, or where i am, but the reality is that the wind is blowing all the time somewhere round the uk, there isnt ever a stop in it, when the tide ebbs and flows, the wind blows, when the sun shines or it rains, the wind blows, its simple physics. on the occasion that i walk into the garden and its flat calm, then all i can say for sure is that its not windy in my garden at ground level. 50 or 150 feet up in the air it may be blowing, 10 miles up the road it might be blowing. but its never ever not blowing everywhere, thats just misinformation that the anti wind lobby like to put out there to help keep the gas oil and coal plants burning.

tidal power is a great resource because of the nature of tides. ok the power available tails off towards the slack at either end of the tide. but tidal limits vary with location, so high tide where i am on the fylde will come perhaps an hour before high tide off the cumbrian coast, and perhaps an hour after high tide on the welsh coast, etc etc, so the high and low tides will provide a constant variation arround the coast, meaning that there will always be peak tidal flow somewhere round the coast, 24 hours a day.

as for where all the solar energy goes, every living thing on the surface of this planet is where it goes to.

Propellor

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2016, 05:51:54 PM »
You don't need to. Enough actually hits the earth to meet our needs many times over. I keep hearing people say we should develop fusion reactors - well there's a great big one hanging over our heads giving us all the energy we could ever want for free.


So my other idea of floating helium vessels above the clouds to catch more of the radiation is no use either.  >:( ;D

I say vessels rather than balloons because the "balloon" would be made of the solar panels themselves.
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Propellor

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2016, 05:16:21 PM »
You don't need to. Enough actually hits the earth to meet our needs many times over. I keep hearing people say we should develop fusion reactors - well there's a great big one hanging over our heads giving us all the energy we could ever want for free.


So my other idea of floating helium vessels above the clouds to catch more of the radiation is no use either.  >:( ;D

I say vessels rather than balloons because the "balloon" would be made of the solar panels themselves.

Damn, this has already been done.

Going back to tidal power though, I'm struggling to see why we aren't making use of the free head generated by the moon twice a day? Seems daft not to take advantage.
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blew

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2016, 06:50:34 PM »
There has been talk of a barrage in Swansea Bay.Free tidal power,but the company that wants to build it is asking for a HUGE subsidy.It wants to be paid at FOUR times the normal rate for each Megawatt,or whatever unit the power is measured in.Free tidal power,but four times the money.And the job of building it has been arranged with a Chinese company.Free power is a joke.

Propellor

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2016, 11:14:04 PM »
There has been talk of a barrage in Swansea Bay.Free tidal power,but the company that wants to build it is asking for a HUGE subsidy.It wants to be paid at FOUR times the normal rate for each Megawatt,or whatever unit the power is measured in.Free tidal power,but four times the money.And the job of building it has been arranged with a Chinese company.Free power is a joke.

I take your point. I hate the corruption that goes with capitalism. Really mucks up a good idea.

But to be fair, I did say the head of water created by the moon is the free bit of the deal. It's regular and predictable and it will happen regardless of whether we take advantage of it or not. The difference between tidal energy and fossil fuel is that the moon is doing all the hard work for us! Well thats one way to look at it anyway?
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Propellor

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2016, 05:30:16 PM »
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timbo

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2016, 09:28:34 PM »
Yes, I was aware of similar set ups in the US. Unfortunately any bird that fly's within the area gets fried  :(
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Propellor

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2016, 09:38:50 PM »
Yes, I was aware of similar set ups in the US. Unfortunately any bird that fly's within the area gets fried  :(

Yes I recall a piece on tv about that problem. Wonder if they've solved it?
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timbo

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Re: Shine a light
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2016, 10:16:20 PM »
It was on Worlds Weirdest Events, a very good series, and excellently presented by Chris Packham  :)
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