Author Topic: Christmas  (Read 2890 times)

J.Y.Kelly

  • Guest
Re: Christmas
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2014, 11:28:40 AM »
I thought I was also an atheist and anti-theist, but it turns out that my obsession with single cylinder bikes qualifies as worship!

johnr

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Christmas
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2014, 01:30:58 PM »
My mrs thinks that my obsession with motorcycles in general borders on the edge of perversion!!!!

Propellor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
Re: Christmas
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2014, 06:34:32 AM »
and as an avowed atheist with no religious beliefs whatsoever, can i say, enjoy the time off work, and have a good time, but lets not forget the true meaning of 'christmas', the pagan midwinter festival celebrating the turning of the year and the aproach of spring, and lets not allow its meaning to be diluted by the hijacking of it by the christian church as well as the modern commercialized spendfest. so, have a few beers, put your feet up, and dont forget to go back to work in jan!!

Well John,
all atheists are religious, atheism is a religious position as your comments provide ample evidence... :P

By the modern definition of the term, that seems to be the case.

But on a more philosophical level consider this. A person is there and along comes a theist and plants the idea of god into his/her brain (usually at a very young age). So that person is then forced to actively counter that idea (meme?) or not. Once the meme is in there you've no choice but to either believe it or decide to not believe it. The meme might actually dissipate and evaporate if that person wasn't continuously and repeatedly exposed to the same meme, who knows? And thinking about the jungle book scenario, would a person in that imaginary case automatically think of a god, as if it is intrinsic in our nature? If they don't are they classed as an atheist? Or would they have to first think of the idea and then decide to dismiss it, to be classed as an atheist?

My point is that is it not more complicated than to just say that because someone is an atheist then that is their religion?

I know for a fact that my own religion is constantly evolving as my brain slowly shakes off the indoctrination of youth. Like walking through treacle.
BEIGE is all the rage

Andy M

  • Posts: 1709
Re: Christmas
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2014, 06:35:45 PM »

I know for a fact that my own religion is constantly evolving...

I shall avoid any mention of monkeys at this point, tempting as it is and simply revel in the possibilities for mayhem the English language offers.  ;D :-X   ;D

Andy
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 06:37:36 PM by Andy M »

Propellor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
Re: Christmas
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2014, 06:42:34 PM »

I know for a fact that my own religion is constantly evolving...

I shall avoid any mention of monkeys at this point, tempting as it is and simply revel in the possibilities for mayhem the English language offers.  ;D :-X   ;D

Andy

Primates.
BEIGE is all the rage

RonXBR

  • Posts: 272
Re: Christmas
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2014, 09:13:04 PM »
I think Mark is the Missing Link.

Ron.

johnr

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Christmas
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2014, 09:49:09 PM »
and as an avowed atheist with no religious beliefs whatsoever, can i say, enjoy the time off work, and have a good time, but lets not forget the true meaning of 'christmas', the pagan midwinter festival celebrating the turning of the year and the aproach of spring, and lets not allow its meaning to be diluted by the hijacking of it by the christian church as well as the modern commercialized spendfest. so, have a few beers, put your feet up, and dont forget to go back to work in jan!!

Well John,
all atheists are religious, atheism is a religious position as your comments provide ample evidence... :P

By the modern definition of the term, that seems to be the case.

But on a more philosophical level consider this. A person is there and along comes a theist and plants the idea of god into his/her brain (usually at a very young age). So that person is then forced to actively counter that idea (meme?) or not. Once the meme is in there you've no choice but to either believe it or decide to not believe it. The meme might actually dissipate and evaporate if that person wasn't continuously and repeatedly exposed to the same meme, who knows? And thinking about the jungle book scenario, would a person in that imaginary case automatically think of a god, as if it is intrinsic in our nature? If they don't are they classed as an atheist? Or would they have to first think of the idea and then decide to dismiss it, to be classed as an atheist?

My point is that is it not more complicated than to just say that because someone is an atheist then that is their religion?

I know for a fact that my own religion is constantly evolving as my brain slowly shakes off the indoctrination of youth. Like walking through treacle.

sorry i disagree. atheism is a refusal to believe in the supernatural. full stop. i dont care what creed your god is, by defenition they are all different versions of the same delusion. that there is some invisible omnipresent omnipotent supernatural being out there pulling the strings of life, taking credit for all the happy stuff and sidestepping the blame for all the bad stuff. i dont follow any of them. i dont believe in some invisible being conttrolling everything. full stop. now in what way is that a religion. i dont waste my time praying cursing or uttering incantations to someone in the sky. i dont blame the bad shit in life on some equally supernatural evil omnipresent being. i dont offer thanks for the good stuff to him/her/it/them either. i utter no entonements for luck good or bad, i dont believe in a heaven, nor a hell, nor for the catholics, a purgatory. in all honesty religious beliefs never ever figure in my life with the exception of when people who hold these beliefs either try to push their opinions onto me, or else take me to task for my refusal to believe what they do. now is that a religion to you, by your defenition? i dont lack compassion empathy or morality, but thats not due to any religion. its just normal human behaviour. now i dont really care if you hold these beliefs, honestly i dont, just so long as you keep your opinions to yourself. if other folks beliefs are put before me then ill point out my refusal to buy any of it.
now my original post was a tongue in cheek response to the original poster and the other replies. it was however seen as something of a provocation to be taken to task over. but its not really bothered me, how could it. was i supposed to have a lightning bolt revelation and become some sort of happy clappy follower of the faith?

Andy M

  • Posts: 1709
Re: Christmas
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2014, 07:31:24 AM »
I would share much of your logic, but would never be so presumptions as to tell next-doors kids that the tooth fairy and ironing elf are't real. Richard Dawkins style crusades have so many features of a religion you can see what is bound to happen. Aiming for converts either way just lowers the tone IMHO, the religious equivalent of a "what oil" thread.

Andy
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 07:33:01 AM by Andy M »

Moto63

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4176
Re: Christmas
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2014, 10:06:12 AM »
Hell fire,
You lot still rabbit,in on about this. Go outside into your shed/garage n get messin with some machinery, you,ve all clearly just got to much spare time on ya hands.  Ps not sure if it was the EASTER BUNNY RABBIT  i was thinkin about.  Pps happy new year to all in TC land.
Regards moto63

Moto63

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4176
Re: Christmas
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2014, 10:09:26 AM »
Oops I even mentioned the word hell.  So just to address the balance  "heavens above" insert which ever version takes your fancy.   Moto63

Propellor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
Re: Christmas
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2014, 08:56:44 AM »
I would share much of your logic, but would never be so presumptions as to tell next-doors kids that the tooth fairy and ironing elf are't real. Richard Dawkins style crusades have so many features of a religion you can see what is bound to happen. Aiming for converts either way just lowers the tone IMHO, the religious equivalent of a "what oil" thread.

Andy

I agree. Richard Dawkins seems to have turned defensive to the point of it becoming, as you say, a crusade. Shame. But then it's not such a free society as is made out. Not free from indoctrination at any rate. Isn't that what his crusade is about?

What about some of his earlier profound philosophical ideas or "slants" on nature? Such as the selfish gene (much misquoted and misunderstood, IMO), the counter argument to the "watchmaker", the extended phenotype and the meme?
BEIGE is all the rage