OT, fenceposts!

[guest18]

Afternoon all, Off topic question (again!) as I suspect you lot are the most likely to give me sensible and useful answers..

We've got fences in the back garden, or we did have until the recent gales  and I now need to replace about an 8m section, the posts will need about 1.8m above ground and we're in an area with very clay soil (dig down a bit and I'm sure you could make pots  )
No surprise, the old posts rotted at the base, and being in an area with strong west winds levering against the panels the result was a bit predictable.

Now I have a vague memory from a line wire course as a youngster that main posts should be two thirds above ground one third below, and you should pack it in with rocks as concrete makes the posts rot... but most of the websites seem to say 1/4 of the post below ground and concrete it in  (and my memory may be playing tricks as the course was a long time ago!)

Given that the bill for wood is going to be in the region of £200  and I don't want to be redoing the job in five years(!) I want to get it right first time. What do you guys reckon is the best technique??

Oh and last question (for now), last time I dug a fencepost hole I used the scissors type post hole shovels, I've seen a few augers advertised (but never used one), would they be a better bet?

Cheers chaps! 

[Richard]

You can buy steel post holders that go in easier, don't rot as quickly, and seem to brace better.
Never tried an auger as our main problem has always been rocks in the soil rather than clay.

Good luck Smudge.

[guest18]

Hi Richard, Yeah I looked at them but I doubt they're robust enough for a windy location like this  already settled on 100x100mm posts due to the stresses and strains! thanks anyway.

[themoudie]

Aye Smudge,

Been in the loft dealing with a leaking ball cock!

As for your fencing mate and knowing the 'past life'  then the following should help.

Materials; rather than cheap SS thinnings, dipped in a carcinogenic green substance, carted across the Irish puddle for you to rot the *rse out of in 5 years: http://websites.uk-plc.net/Plasti_Limited/products/Recycled_plastic_fence_posts.htm

You are correct in thinking 1 third below and 2 thirds above.

If you use the recycled product, then I would go with the concrete as a dry mix at 1 part cement: 2 parts sand: 4 parts ballast or purchase the ready mixed/rapid setting stuff at a bag a hole!

If you go for wood, use treated 100mm dia round posts rather than square sawn 100mm x 100mm posts, the sawing slices across the fibres and weakens the post structure. Place a 'pad' stone in the bottom of the hole, set the post on top, then pack loose stones/broken slabs, concrete around the post. If you can put a flat face stone on the winward side and then pack a large wedge stone down the leaward side with the bar it should all tighten up, keep using the 'button' end of the bar to ram the stuff in. Once it is all tight, put a good dose of creosote around the bottom and let it run down through the compacted rubble.

Alternative solution maybe to go for the redundant telegraph transmission pole solution and insert using the above method. Bit big, but it'll take a whore a lot of puff. Also consider a more 'open' or lower fence, rather than the dreaded 1.8m (6") 'larch lap' which act like a sail. Decking boards are cheaper than fencing panels (+ a go old lick of creosote) and I would check local sawmills/fencing suppliers for discounts. The market is competitive at present! 

I would definitely use the old GPO shuvhole and a good rabbiting spade. If the auger wanders offline or greets a stane your bu88ered. DONT USE A POWERED AUGER, IT'LL TEAR YOUR CORE MUSCLES APART AND FLING YOU SIDEWAYS LIKE A RAG IF IT 'CATCHES' A STONE! BAD BACKS

Long may your clay puddling continue, I've spent many happy hours digging holes in the stuff, trying to encourage silviculturists to do the same!

Hope all else is well and growing.

Regards, Bill.

[guest18]

Thanks Bill, that's grand info. I shall go and pick up a post-holer tomorrow. (About the only thing I remember about them is the backache after a day or two of starting to use them lol.)
This is the fence that survived (on the windward side, it's been previously replaced by someone who couldn't get fenceposts to an even height above ground!). Gives you an idea of the style though.

I reckon properly set posts about 2m apart, battening top, middle and bottom between them and then lots of planks in with a nail-gun is the way it was done, makes sense here as the slope is too severe to mess about trying to step standard panels.

Do you reckon plastic posts would be strong enough in 80x80mm? (The price for 100x100 is a bit steep with everything else going on!) I have no experience of them, I assume from the web description one can just nail battens to them?

[guest7]

It may be obvious but a 45 degree bracing post on every other post will make it absolutely rock solid. The brace doesn't have to be long and need only anchor a couple of feet up the post, but it makes all the difference.

To be fair, with this construction (vertical posts and horizontal braces) a post anchored with ready mix postcrete will do a good job and the posts, if treated regularly, should last ten years. As for the postcrete, I use at least a bag and a half for each post depending on the soil

If you've got clay then those scissor type hole diggers are great, as long as the stones aren't too big. It's still a tough physical job, but in the right conditions the tool works well.

You don't have to get the fenceposts an even height above ground - you just get them all in to the minimum height (or higher) and then cut 'em 

Cheers
GC

[Steve H]

Concrete posts, hard work but dont rot.

[guest7]

Been in the loft dealing with a leaking ball *******!

Yeah, you want to get on top of that. Had lots of calls last year to houses where a dripping overflow on a tank had frozen and caused all sorts of nastiness. Easy to ignore in good weather (as lots of numpties do) but vital to sort when the temperature drops.

Horrible job though eh?  Never been a fan of Rock Wool on skin

GC

[themoudie]

Aye Smudge,

80mm is more than 3", but 100mm is shy of 4". Go to the site I gave you and look in the 'Ecolines', grey coloured posts (milk containers) are a lot cheaper and you shouldn't need to replace them.

Agree with GC and his 'bracing' but didn't suggest in case the 'look' of the borders was important. As for the fixing, nail gun with stainless or plated annular ring nails just the ticket.

Not surprised, but sorry to see that the guidance system for the 'Phobus-Grunt' is prone. Explains the demise of the vehicle over the Pacific. LOST!

Aye GC,

Finished dealing with me leaking ball. Twenty years on thejob and the rubber pellet no longer up to the job, shame about the nylon piston rather than brass! Different size recess for the pellet!!!! ******£$$!!!!! Trimmed a "1/2" to fit with a scalpel and so far, so good.

Glass wool dust, mice droppings, chewed pipe lagging, woodworm frass and debris from the 150+year old estate sawn 8" x 2" timbers is just great and the sharp ends of the 3" nails driven through the 3/4" sarking boards and 3/4" battens on which the tiles are laid just adds to the experience. 

I'm sure something else will be along soon in the never ending world of 'property'!

Slainte, Bill.

[guest7]

Sarking is a rare thing down here in the South.

As for poking nails, I'm always amazed when I go up into an attic under a recently fitted roof and you can see the slate nails poking through the very expensive breathable membrane. I am beginning to suspect that roofers are not very high up the building food chain.

GC

[guest18]

Cheers Bill,

The ecolines are a bitty short, but never mind. Their brown ones might look ok? The look is moderately important. If they scream "plastic" then it's no good, need to blend in with the fence/neighbours... 
Don't be deceived by the antenna btw, if you look closely you'll see it has a base fitted which allows me to easily fold it flat like that either to adjust or in case of extreme winds 

Sound like a nasty job in the loft, but at least it is done. I've just come back out the garage after spending a little time on the process of recommisioning the landy, bad news, clutch solid, (as in pedal can't be moved), good news, on easing open the slave cyl bleed nipple pedal moves and (stinking old) fluid comes out... which presumably means, bad news, release bearing siezed in position  know any good tricks?!? (jolting/pressing very hard on pedal ineffective)
On the plus side, I'd assumed I'd lost a wheel cyl seal as the brake had no pedal, but when I topped up the fluid I appeared to get a brake. Will observe....
Tomorrow may be using a fresh gallon of petrol and some spare fuel pipe to see if I can get her to fire up....

Got to be better for morale than the MZ which has managed to break down whilst parked up and untouched! (no electrickery for no obvious reason!  )

[themoudie]

Aye Smudge,

Will enquire about Landy and suggest corrosion on multipin plugs for the MZ. Clean up and ACF50.

Just had a nasty bill for the Octavia, 8 years old and whilst driving at ~70mph down the motorway, the windows started to 'dance'!

Drove home with severe buffeting to the eardrums and a single offside rear window remaining down whenever the ignition was 'ON'!

Into the 'local' workshop, as cars electrics sending 0 & 1 in binary code along with current in minimal wire gauge is not my cup of tea.

Water into the main control unit in the drivers door, via the multipin plug! Extensive corrosion and poured water from both the unit and the harness. Result new unit and harness only available from VW Group for a cool ~£250 and £118 respectively plus strip and fit after clearing the gremlins. Total £507-38 inc VAT. 

I can see the attraction of a SERIESII sliding window box with moss and algae in it!   

My regards, Bill.

[guest18]

Aye Bill,

Got to agree about the multiplugs, I've bypassed the main power wire (which was dud/dodgy) but still no joy, just got to keep searching!

That's a brute about the Octavia. We've had similar issues with our Citroen, touch wood it's behaving now (apart from a habit of eating headlamp bulbs).

Series windows can still cost you when they rot through, but at least that's them for another decade or so!

[Steve Lake]

Had a similar job to do a couple of years back.... this is my solution....

2/3 - 1/3 ... correct
soak base of pole in carcinogenic substance (I use a tub of old engine oil... soak for a week..or more. just stand the poles in the tub.. and periodically splosh a bit up the sides of the poles, the bit that will be buried)
Use good sized rubble, rammed in with iron pole.

the fence i put up at my last house in 1976 is still standing.... albeit in very sandy well drained soil.

[themoudie]

Aye Steve,

At least that carcinogenic substance you can incinerate later, without releasing arso-cyanates! OK, the carbon particles will probably cause global warming from the reek! It's that evil green stuff, I was refering to, because it bonds to the wood and ensures you can't recycle the timber.

Your sandy well drained soil is a peach when compared with the stuff Smudge has to deal with, although some of that Norfolk boulder clay with flints can be a right B and it makes your carrots all twisty! 

Hope your keeping fit.

Cheers, Bill.