Winter bike stuff

[guest7]

As the weather gets colder our thoughts turn to keeping warm on our bikes. More than once, whilst riding through Bavaria with the temperature at minus gorblimey, I have pondered the inequitable distribution of heat between machine and rider. My hands and toes would get progressively colder and all the while a great big motor located halfway between the two would be generating excess heat.

I was chatting to my car mechanic chums today and asking about heater blowers and the like and they told me that in older cars the whole shebang would be built into one box. What's to stop an owner of a water-cooled bike tapping one of these into the hoses and directing warm air into handlebar muffs, under aprons or onto boots? I'm guessing this is an easier option for us sidecar johnnies rather than trying to find space for it on a solo.

GC

[Andy M]

Take a look here;

https://sites.google.com/site/threewheelbonnie/cold-places/heated-kit

The  somewhat unpopular trip these lads got sent on in 1941-45 had temps down at minus a lot. With typical German complexity and salesmen able to flog the Nazi government any sort of gadget they were sometimes issued with a sort of set of muffs (feet too) connected with what looks like vacuum cleaner hose (also into the chair) to the exhaust manifold. The idea is copied from heater systems used to preheat aircooled aircraft engines of the time. I can find very few pictures and no one resurected them in peacetime hence my suggestion they didn't work well enough for the soldiers not to "lose" them as repairs became necessary.

The way forwards with this to me is a feed from the oil cooler to a heat exchanger and then into a water/glycerine piped suit as used by V-bomber crews and astronauts. Wasn't there a chap at the Tauern Treffen boiling sausages? There again, electricity is so neat and tidy and it'd probably be easier to rig a car alternator and stick with the electric jacket.

At the risk of getting off topic, my last leg on the 2007 elefant was Amsterdam-Rotterdam-home. I wore the heated jacket next to my skin it was that cold. It was however rather hard to explain the neat  rows of red marks on my back to Karen  Still. as I said at the time, Sticks and stones will break my bones but whips and chains excite me  That sofa is *****y uncomfortable.

Andy

[Richard]

At a Dragon Rally several years ago I saw a Brit single with an extra wrapping of some sort around its exhaust pipe.  A further flexible metal pipe ran from there to a suit worn by the rider.  I presume there was some sort of blower in the system and whilst he loked absurd he wasw probably also rather warm.

As I read these hallowed pages I am increasingly convinced that it is being secretly run by 1980s MZ Riders Club members.

Richard

[guest27]

A fellow I worked for in the 80's had a Velo with some tubing wrapped through the fins, connected to another coil into which he could pop can of water.  The thermo siphon (or was it pumped?) took hot water from the pot, and heated the can of water.  After a moderate trip he had the makings of a cup of coffee or two.  He had plans to run the water through the handlbars too.

His sons were as odd as him - one had a water injected Moggie Minor flatbed and the other was 23 st and rode a B100P

R

[guest7]

As I read these hallowed pages I am increasingly convinced that it is being secretly run by 1980s MZ Riders Club members.

Aha, but we don't throw wellies at rallies... although one or two of us are prone to flinging handbags on occasion  

Just to be a tad different, can we wander back to the point? (I know I know, it's not normally our way). Can anyone think why fitting a car heater matrix and blower into the cooling system would be a bad idea? It seems like a blinding solution to me, involving complete bought-in components rather than fannying about with bits and pieces.

GC

[002]

As I read these hallowed pages I am increasingly convinced that it is being secretly run by 1980s MZ Riders Club members.

Aha, but we don't throw wellies at rallies... although one or two of us are prone to flinging handbags on occasion  

Just to be a tad different, can we wander back to the point? (I know I know, it's not normally our way). Can anyone think why fitting a car heater matrix and blower into the cooling system would be a bad idea? It seems like a blinding solution to me, involving complete bought-in components rather than fannying about with bits and pieces.

GC

Of course it will work !!!

Just need a valve/tap or a flap as you would in a car heating system.

Jethro

[guest7]

The tricky thing would be running suitable hoses into the bar muffs and near your toes, but once you've fitted a sidecar to your bike any further aesthetic considerations are largely redundant 

Of course with an outfit you can also fit more enveloping legshields and once you have some still air around your foot then the blower should work to heat your tootsies.

GC

[jules]

Its a shame my PC crashed a couple of months ago as i lost all of my photos,
some of which would have been great for this very thread,a guy that 002 and i met(Willi)at this years Tauerntreffen had a Z1300 which he had modified to use all the waste heat,such as running the bikes cooling system through the handlebars and the floor of the sidecar,a flexi pipe up to the chin piece of his helmet,a hot water cylindrical reservoir 12" deep with a 6" diameter on the right side,that he used several times to heat Bockwurst and fruity fluids for us,he also had a home made bracket behind the cylinder head that sat on top of the engine for tins of soup and broth,which heated as he rode,brilliant!

Ah ha,
just found this in photobucket account,phew!

here you can see the pipes to feed the heated coolant through the bars and the hose that went to his helmet,
luckily Willi is going to the TT next year ,so its an opportunity for me to pick his brains

[guest146]

You sidecar boys want one of these. We use them on trucks. Come in 12v and 24v and to run on diesel and petrol  You will get about 2KW of heat from one and had a thermostat as well. Just think you could sleep in the sidecar in your T shirt

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Eberspacher-DL3-diesel-heater_W0QQitemZ250548566676QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM?hash=item3a55dbba94

Ken

[guest18]

Hmmm, a car type cooling system *could* work but really to get the benefit you'd need a sheltered (or preferrably sealed) space into which to run the heated air. Also when you're looking at minus goodgrief degrees on an autobahn in Bayern there is a risk of overcooling your engine, not critical but not ideal either!

For the sidecar, definately, a car type heater system could be excellent, however for the rider I suspect that Andy's right with the heated suit being the best solution. Of course if you could modify the controls to let you control the outfit whilst sitting in the chair.... (now *that* could be fun!)

[guest7]

Oi Smudge! you said you'd be off-line and we nearly felt sorry for you and then you pop up again... what gives? 

A set of handlebar muffs is pretty much a sealed space in terms of heating. Legshields, if large enough and close enough to your feet, could also be ok. That's where a sidecar scores because you can fit the legshields without having to worry about so much minor details as getting your feet out (and down) quickly.

What about hot air vents under a riding apron? Roasted chestnuts for Xmas?

GC

[guest18]

Am in the local library slumming it with the chavs and screaming kids ;-)
I still think heated air would be pretty much wasted in the system you describe, try driving your van down the motorway with all the windows open and the back doors open and see how good the heater is 
You need to trap layers of warm/warmed air (or liquid) and block the cooling air/rain/sleet hitting the front.

Gotta go, my time is up! 

[Steffan]

The secret would be an external catheter and a series of bladders connected by pipes - the more you piss the warmer you are. That last coffee won't hold you up because you don't have to stop and it comes out at 37 degrees C.

Steffan 

[bobby554]

Hi
In the mid 70s I had a Norton Commando powered enduro outfit I solved the electrical power problem by welding a bearing housing into the chaincase and running a shaft via UJs into the sidecar and from it drove a Large car alternator well able to power heated gloves,socks or vest.
On my old 1955 Land Rover I made a stainless steel heat exchanger (a suplimentory coil heated the washer fluid) around the exhaust running via flexi pipes to  the radiator header tank and on to an early Austin Mini heater that had a matrix and fan/motor all in one convienient package.An old round series 1 Land Rover heater would be ideal.
A combination of these two systems could keep both rider and sidecar passenger(s) toasty.
I bought an oil cooler from an autojumble recently and with the addition of a simple computer fan could be pressed into service if space is an issue.

[guest27]

Now Steffan I thought a catheter had to be internal by definition - coming from 'to insert' or thrust in'.   

Now on the hear exchanger thought - how about a coil of the small bore copper tubing that is sod all use for central heating.  Keep it annealed and you could wrap it around your legs, torso, arms etc and flow cooling fluid from the engine through it.

R