Club Direction

[niblue]

As a newby who's never been to a rally, paid any subs or the like then my view possibly isn't the most relevant, however:
1) Merchandise: I'd be interested in a tee-shirt and/or a mug - but mot much else
2) Subs: I don't mind paying a sub, as long as it's not excessive
3) Annual Rally: Not sure I'll ever make one (and if I did it's unlikely I'd bring the XBR anyway!) so don't feel strongly about it.
4) Newsletter: Don't feel all that strongly about it, but happy to receive it electronically rather than a paper copy
5) Club stand: Don't attend the type of events where the stand would be, so don't feel strongly about it.

[Simon#83]

Thought I'd better stop lurking and add my thoughts/ramblings to the debate:

What do people want out of the club and what does the club want to offer? Sounds like there is a some disconnect here ATM. Do they want to pay subs and get all the formal stuff, regular newsletters, AGMs, regular rallies, booked months/years in advance, or do they simply want to interact with our like minded individuals in a more relaxed way. Hop onto the forums as much/little as you like, attend the odd informal gathering of fellow members, etc.?

I think we're at a stage where there is clearly a spark of life in the club, but it has certainly dwindled from it's early beginnings. I think the club was so successful in the early years because of the dedication of a few key individuals, a formal committee to run it (treasurer, chairman, newsletter editor, events organiser, etc.) and the impetus and excitement that usually comes with starting something new. I'm not suggesting that people have become bored, but it's cleat that it takes a lot of time and dedication to run a club of other than a dozen or so mates meeting up from time to time.

I believe the club can only get to a size that the administration can handle. How large do want this club to be and how much administration isn't to get to this size? Perhaps we should bury the notion of having a formal "club" and instead think about it as more of a "community". (I'm sure there are probably a number of advantages having a club, liability ins urnace, maybe, but I'm not qualified to comment on this) 
 
The way I see it is that the main thing that draws "members" (do we still have an official membership list?) together is the website.
You can ask questions on pretty much any topic, (single cylinder bike related or not) and get useful/thought provoking/humorous/ answers in turn, from the splendid community we have here today.
You can show off your pride and joy in the photographs section, you can ask a technical question or you can find out if fellow thumperers are meeting up anywhere. You can even tell some jokes and have a good rant!

You could do some of the above via a newsletter (Q&As might take a while though!), but for me the site is a much better medium for members to interact with one and other and to self author their own living newsletter.

I think it is time to let go of the newsletter and instead concentrate on the website. From what I can see the newsletter has for a long time now been a constant bone of contention with constant pressure on getting so many copies out a year, appeals to members for content, printing, posting, etc. 

The paper newsletter had it's day, but I think that medium is now too outdated and it's time to move on. A sensible alternative was to also publish the newsletter online. A more environmentally friendly solution, this still carries the stresses of deadlines and getting enough contributors.

Far better to build up an online community of individuals with a like minded interest, who then generate their own dynamic content. It might be useful to create a few new forum sections (rally reports, bike reviews, camping/biking kit reviews, for example) that one might find in a newsletter, that members would more readily contribute to than submitting an article, by a deadline date for publication.   
 
If we want to build up the membership, then push the online presence. Stickers/mugs/t-shirts with club's URL, for example. There is the benefit of members being able to purchase merchandise and showing pride in the club, as well as freely advertising the URL.

I agree with Smudge (I think) on having an annual rally, as this is a great excuse for us to put a date in the diary and to maybe return something to the club. This could also be used as a means of presenting the "public face" of the club and drumming up more awareness of the club, but I don't think this should be the primary reason.

Apologies for the above ramblings, but in summary I think what I'm trying to say is, I have met some great people through the Thumper Club and  it would be a great shame for it to just fade into obscurity. It seems to be the membership is dwindling (I'll admit to being guilty of not putting in the dedication and "stepping up to the plate" as much as I would like to) and something needs to change.

I wonder if we can streamline the administration and perhaps re-invent the club in an Internet only guise (I suspect there a very few non-Internet members). Websites aren't free and it's clear that Steve H dedicates a lot of his spare time to the running of this site. If he is prepared to carry on providing the framework and for the community members to continue contributing the content, what more do we need? As for running costs, I'm sure a registration system, where registrants are asked to make a small donation via a clickable Paypal link would suffice, or indeed a nominal fee of say £5, again via Paypal, would also work.


Simon

[Jez F]

Hi from another lurker, I'd be quite happy to pay subs for either version of the club, real or virtual but the last thing I'd want to see is the club folding. I'd agree that a newsletter isn't essential, unless you don't have a computer, the trouble is that events would have to be listed well in advance, unlike on the forum when it can be announced as and when. Getting people to write stuff for a mag can be a pain from what I've seen in this and other clubs, but it's much easier to do it on the forum and we get colour pics too. Annual rally, how big and what style of rally? Time for a seperate thread? Wouldn't mind a T-shirt if theres any going! Pretty much go along with what Simon has come up with though.

[Furry John]

Well balanced response Simon, I can only agree with all your points, I did'nt spend as much time with you this year due to your involvement with the local cricket scene but agree totally that the annual rally provides a place where people can meet, and renew face to face relationships and talk bollocks together for a few hours. The Dragon Rally does provide this but does not appeal to all participants in the web community, in fact cannot, due to geographic restrictions, I would dearly like to meet some of the more profund contributors to the web conversations, but some thousands of miles separate some of us. The club has become bigger than it's original aims and is all the better for this, the only linking factor is the website (many thanks SH) so we are left with a divers group of people who share a love of single cylinder bikes (I think) and wish to meet (talk to)  like minded persons.

See you again January 2010, on a field somewhere bloody cold in North Wales,

Furry John,

[robG]

Some excellent points raised Simon .The idea of extra forum sections is interesting .Possibly a ' rolling ' newsletter to which members can add articles perhaps ?I know this works well on other sites.
There's plenty that can be done with the club , but as Pat said there are only a few entering the fray at the moment , therefore arguably it's the minority who are making the running here.

Oh and Furry , don't go the the Dragon in January.You'll have a long wait old chum . 

Rob

[squirrelciv]

Oi !

You can't just bury your head in your shed . You started this .


Rob .

I'm not burying my bonce, I'm admitting defeat! Totally different thing. Whatever is said here won't change anything. Nothing will come of this and nothing will change. We are not going to form any sort of elected committee or come up with a firm agenda and we're not going to reform the club for better or worse.

What we will do is type away till our fingers hurt and then stay exactly the same. I'm sure we'll buy the advertising stuff, go off and order 50 mugs make a plan to appear at some show and the same old same old will/will not appear and generate the same result as all the other times.

And this is no bad thing, it's the thumper way, it's what we do.

Would like to respond to one point raised by GC though before rolling off the topic. I quote:

"Given this I feel that the arguments are groundless. I can't see why the internet members would deny other members access to the club if there was no additional financial burden."

In answer to the question contained in the quotation, I've no objection at all. I'm mearly asking everyone to consider whether this is something we should be persuing. So far the majority of responses seems to suggest 'no', yet I feel some how we will in the usual 'Thumper' way. Also, apart from the Irish lads (and I'm pretty sure they lurk the website) Who exactly are these non internet members anyway?? I've turned up to most if not all Thumperclub events and I can't think a soul there who isn't a [regular] forum member!

If you want a physical club presence at shows, If you want to produce printed club newsletters and distribute them by post. Crack on, enjoy. But are you sure you'll have the support to make it a success?? How many articles are there waiting to be printed now?? Has the phone rung off the wall with non-forum members clammering for the latest edition?? Were we beating members off with a stick following the call for bikes to display??

We currently have 244 forum members. 244!!! I don't reckon I could name you 2 dozen who contribute. The fact is (and this is to our collective credit) we're not 'clubby' type people. most of us just want to ride our bikes, have a bit of a natter about nowt really, look at nice piccies (of bikes) and maybe bump into one another every now and then for a beer and a p155take.

Now I really have got blunt pinkies so I'm off to my shed again to soak 'em in some 10w40.

[Furry John]

Oh and Furry , don't go the the Dragon in January.You'll have a long wait old chum

Yeah, Yeah, can't wait can I,

Furry

[Richard]

To be honest an internet based club rather suits me.  Its a bit like being able to drop into the bar for a chat with bike mates any time.  I have a bottle of excellent Coopers (Australian) bottle conditioned Pale Ale in front of me as well.

The odd meet up is also excellent, internet only would be a bit dull.  Like a virtual pint.

It doesn't have to be a club rally.  I seem to meet most Thumperistas at the Dragon.

I am highly unlikely to be able to make an AGM due to shifts and family commitments so forum based debate rather suits me.  My local club is okay but they spend far too much time on business and far too little drinking, eating and a****ng about.

Good beer this.  Afterwards I have a Tsingtao and something Californian awaiting

Richard.

[002]

 and something Californian awaiting

Richard.

    Blond with Big Tits


Jethro

[themoudie]

 and something Californian awaiting

Richard.

    Blond with Big Tits


Jethro

Nah Jethro, thats whats sticking out of the back of yur head after hitting it off the road twice!

[themoudie]

Agree with Simon's erudite speel and Pat's reiteration.

Hats off to to GC for the original idea and coercion of a band of 'individuals'!

My thanks to all whom have held 'office' whilst, I've been a member!

My appreciation to SteveH for his dedication to maintaining this site throughout the clubs machinations!

Newsletters like monthly mags are clutter, absorb time, effort, cash and give angst in huge quantity. Online with maybe some more 'Fora' headings 'll be fine.

Rallies! Yeah well, whatever rocks your boat. I tend to be a bit non-plussed, but if your into the 'Band of Brothers' thing, go for it! If I can say "Hello" and have a blether over a pint of 'whatever', whilst sharing a curry, great.

As SteveL put it last time we were chastising ourselves "The Thumper Club is like a comfy old leather arm chair. If I can collapse into into for half an hour and chill with a blether and a snifter, fine." If you start poking me with a s****y stick, I'll nae bother. I don't need the hassle, I can find that outside my door, without inviting it into my house!

PayPal or Direct Transfer to pay the 'Nanny Fee' and keep the URL running, no problem.

In the words of the inimitable Dave Allen " May your God go with you!" I'll keep popping up here and bump into you out there, until someone flicks the switch.

Keep on boppin', Bill.

[Andy M]

Nicely put Simon.

I'm guessing a lot of us have been on Horizons Unlimited, AdvRider, UKGS etc. that are web based only. I think they work. Like our own club they are run as a benign dictatorship (not sure about UKGS I avoid it) with expansion driven by site activity and online word of mouth. HUBB is very professional and focused, ADVrider very American and rather adversarial and I won't decribe UKGS on a family site. I do believe there is a niche for the TC in there. Our combined knowledge on such diverse subjects as XBR's, Winter rallies and so on would make an expanded website a serious source of info IMHO.

I do however agree with a point GC made somewhere up there. We are of course online and active. If there is a membership out there that isn't, it's their club too. I think before we decided to stop the paper, it needs a final hurrah. How about we put a few questions on the membership renual? If a decent majority are either online already or will be happy to go online in say 2011 we make the switch in a fair and controlled manner. If we get a hundred renuals saying they want the paper, then those of us saying we don't need it should accept not everyone agrees.

Andy

[guest7]

Pat, you're wrong about one thing, this debate has changed several things already and has been a very good thing. We've aired many important issues because of it. 

From your last reply it seems that what is most important to you from your original post was the issue of a committee structure, is that right? The majority of replies have been firmly against going down the beurocratic route so please don't think that I have merely taken a unilateral decision to dismiss the reinstatment of a committee.

Thank you Andy for backing up one important point, this is a discussion amongst the on-line members only and we still have to consider the needs of those who choose not to use the forums. When we last formally asked for subs we gave the members the chance to opt for internet-only access or to carry on receiving a paper newsletter. The current membership list has 55 internet-only members and 83 'full' members. (for some reason we have a batch of members who aren't listed as either so I need to check that to remind myself what their status is).

Actually I do get phone calls and emails from non-internet members, asking where their newsletters are.

GC

[guest27]

In the words of Dr W. E. Deming - "Where is your data?"

We are holding a conversation here - as has been said - between a self selecting subset of the whole.  We have a number of things in common that may well differentiate us from other members of TC.  We come on line and take an active part in discussions.  Making choices here may well exclude a whole subset of the data - and with it people.

We could ask the question in the news letter - but will that draw out answers, or will there be a happy membership who will just go "Huh!" and let it slip.  Are they less valuable?

If I stick my Organisational Development hat on (ping!) There is not a clear shared picture of we are going and why, thus we are unsure of the journey there.  This conversation is identifying some of what 'perfect' for TC looks like, whilst this is good, if we wish to include those who are proud TC members but not vocal on here, we should look at ways of including them - as has been suggested, but it would be a good idea to have some handle on the whole, so we know we have spoken to it.  If you know the parable of the blind men describing the elephant, we potentially do not know roughly how big the beast is, so we will never know if we have described just a leg, trunk and tail, missing out the other legs, body etc.

Much of this will be in the data, as to whether the data is available, or in a state that can speak to us I do not know. I would be willing to interrogate it mind  

Have to go - a beautiful woman has agreed to meet me this morning and blather about analytical Vs enumerative statistics.  

R

[Andy M]

The current membership list has 55 internet-only members and 83 'full' members. (for some reason we have a batch of members who aren't listed as either so I need to check that to remind myself what their status is).

Actually I do get phone calls and emails from non-internet members, asking where their newsletters are.

GC

There is the last snapshot. 55 out of over 138 (approx. 40%) have made a decision not to have a paper newsletter. We don't really know why. Approximately 60%, when offered the choice chose to pay extra for the paper. This data is flawed in that it is many months old, is incomplete and is based on a choice without any statement of future intent or other options.

I wouldn't assume phone calls about missing paper newsletter suggest support in any particular direction, if people paid they expect delivery. They may choose to avoid the hassle later by switching product, especially if they know the missing mag could well be online by the time they make the call, but at the point of calling that isn't in their mind. Did you suggest to any callers/mailers they could download it? Not very tactful I know, but I've sold new products that way.

IMHO data from current members who are prepared to be active is what we need.

Andy