Start the Week topic

[guest27]

There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya
'Bout the raising of the wrist.

I have loved that couple of lines since I first heard the song...

Steffan - why not?  Who are these anti intellectual friends?  And what is intellectual about a blather?

R

[guest24]

So where does that leave the bikes in museums? They have been used, loved, crashed, raced etc, and then restored and now sit there doing nothing other than being looked at. Are they still motorcycles, or are they ornaments? I go for motorcycles, even though they are no longer ridden.

[guest27]

I think Team Obsolete had the answer (and money) for that one - their view was that a MC was made to have its neck wrung (well racing bikes anyway) so they would do that until they could repair it no more and then they would do an empty case restoration and put it in a museum - along with all the bits and bobs they had for it, info on repairs made etc.

It was - as Shaw had it in Man and Superman - used up

Is it still a motorcycle - well I guess you could say no if it has no motor, but yes it is a motorcycle, in the same way as the beam engine in the science museum is a beam engine - it is just not a operational one any more, and does not claim to be.

I have less issue with bikes in museums although I do think if they have a particular history they should be left that way - Slippery Sam should have any scruteneering stickers left on, a long distance bike should be left covered in filth and bodges etc.

Maybe at shows they should have ridden there and trailered there classes?

R

[tj63]

Maybe at shows they should have ridden there and trailered there classes?

At some shows, they do.  The Donington show in May and the VJMC Lancashire show (Nabs Head) both had prizes specifically for bikes ridden to the show.



Trevor

[squirrelciv]

So where does that leave the bikes in museums? They have been used, loved, crashed, raced etc, and then restored and now sit there doing nothing other than being looked at. Are they still motorcycles, or are they ornaments? I go for motorcycles, even though they are no longer ridden.

For me they're just display models, images of what they once were. Great mind you, but no longer a motorcycle. This is because they can no longer perform the primary function of a motorcycle, movement.

[Steffan]

That is very Platonic of you Pat, well sort of there is a bit of Aristotelian thinking creeping on the margins - best to watch that sort of thing.

[guest27]

Methinks you are extracting something there Steffan, and probably not from Pat 

Not very Sun Tzu?

R

[squirrelciv]

That is very Platonic of you Pat, well sort of there is a bit of Aristotelian thinking creeping on the margins - best to watch that sort of thing.

Does that make me cleverer like wot you is??

[guest7]

All this talk of pampered motorcycles reminds me of something Simon and I saw at a recent rally. One guy spent the afternoon polishing the engine of his Harley, using Autosol, a toothbrush and some rags that he had brought along. He had actually riden there, but once at the site he obvioulsy felt that the presence of road dirt was undesirable. He spent nearly two hours doing this 

GC

[guest24]

I see nothing wrong with the polishing of a motorcycle that had been ridden to the show. I like cleaning and polishing my bike, just don't have time to do it anymore. It seems to be a sad fact of my life that I don't have much time to tinker with them, clean & polish them, and even ride them anymore. Damn this wretched necessity of work to pay for a small roof over the family's heads.

[SteveC#222]

I have less issue with bikes in museums although I do think if they have a particular history they should be left that way - Slippery Sam should have any scruteneering stickers left on, a long distance bike should be left covered in filth and bodges etc.

I understood that Slippery Sam was very severly damaged in the fire at the National Motorcycle Museum ( ie-burnt to a crisp with engine cases etc melted) - it has now been completely rebuilt using everything that could be salvaged.  Question is, is it still the real Slippery Sam or  just a very good replica using some original parts? 

[KirriePete]

Ah, Grandfather's Axe - for the hard of thinking:

"Grandfather has had the same axe for forty years, it's had 6 replacement handles and 3 new heads, but it's still the same axe"

Things evolve as they are used, damaged, repaired, whatever - as long as there is a common traceable history linking the item back to the factory-produced original then it is the same item, in my view.  How much of our bikes has been replaced since they left the production line?  5%?  10%?  More?

[Andy M]

I'd go with the DVLA approach. If Slippery Sam still has the same frame and/or engine and/or other major parts it's the same bike. The fact that the NMM owned it before the fire and afterwards adds to that feeling IMHO. Now, I'm sure some enterprising soul has thought that Brough Superiors can be multiplied by fitting a new frame to the engine and a new engine to the frame, but you'd only have one set of paperwork, so one bike is heavily restored but genuine, the other a replica (clone) with an original engine. Like any antique providence carries a lot of weight. I'm sure no one here would suggest that Slippery Sam would be Slippery Sam with a Titanium frame, Honda Engine and an entry into next years WSB.

I'd let museums off a little more on the ornament thing if they've set up their bikes as genuine stake in the ground reference material with paperwork back up. If Slippery Sam's mechanic says it had a Lockeed brake in the 19?? season and Champion sparkplugs and that's what the museum piece has, the museum info should simply say this bike was restored to match the condition in that year. They should be able to back up that info with resaerch papers that would allow anyone to see the year before it might have had OE fit Dunlop brakes. You'd hope with so much original bike lost NMM would do a restoration aimed at a specific season given any race bike soon becomes a V3.0tuesdayafternoon. The display up to the fire will have been a snapshot of the last day it raced less bits lost the day after while it was views as "old" rather than "antique".

What we don't need IMHO is 500 BSA Goldflashes in the condition the owner might have put them in if he'd won the pools in 1969. There are enough bikes out there for maybe one of each model year to be saved as a reference and the rest used to keep them where they belong, on the road.

I can't really see the point of bike competitions full stop. I've been involved with photographic competitions and dog shows and it simply comes down to what mood the judge got up in and what he spots in the first few seconds. That's if you are lucky of course. If you are unlucky he'll spot some bike/dog/photo that got third last week and not dare put it below 5th because last week's judge has been at it for a million years.

Andy

[robG]

All this talk of pampered motorcycles reminds me of something Simon and I saw at a recent rally. One guy spent the afternoon polishing the engine of his Harley, using Autosol, a toothbrush and some rags that he had brought along. He had actually riden there, but once at the site he obvioulsy felt that the presence of road dirt was undesirable. He spent nearly two hours doing this 

I wouldn't make so bold as to criticise someone who clearly takes a pride in his bike ,GC .I'm sure if your bike was in a similar state,then you would look after it as well as the next man . Let's also not forget that regular cleaning is an essential part of the maintenance of the machine. More often than not it is when cleaning the machine we find faults .

Rob .

[guest7]

Just to clarify, this wasn't at a show, it was a camping field meet. I'm not sure he was even there for the diesel rally going on around him. He turned up, pitched his tent, mooched around and then spent the afternoon polishing (not merely cleaning) his bike. It wasn't in a show or there to be judged in any way.

I can see this being a sensible thing back in the garage one evening after the ride, but why ride to a nice sunny spot and do it? I mean, think of how many drinking/talking bollocks hours he wasted 

GC