Goose starting problems...

[Majik]

Love the new Goose, but the little bugger is becoming a nightmare to start in the mornings, and she finally failed me yesterday (a good kicking was given...).

I whipped the plug out last night, and it was quite carbonned up. Recharged the battery overnight, and checked the air filter (seemed a bit thick with blue oil, which I assume is filter oil).

Was still a bastard to start, but got there eventually. However, I'm talking over 60 seconds of turning over to get her going. This can't be right.

So... I've jumped to the conclusion it must be how the carb is set up. Free flow (read: bloody noisy) mismatched exhaust and the original (and gunked, I think) filter = bad running.

My plan is to get a free flow air filter on there to match the exhaust and then set the carb up accordingly. Which brings me to the question - how the hell do I do it? I've only ever cleaned a carb out, and the very concept of jets fills me with dread. Anyone any beginners guides, tips or any other suggestions to cure the bastard?

[Majik]

Right - an update in the hope of some sage-like advice.

Firstly - the choke cable was absolutely knckered. New one on the way to me now (it was not closing the choke valve/brass thing completely). Should be here today, actually...

Second - I've put a free flow cone filter on her now, and can now get her started as long as I do two things:

1) The needle MUST be on the bottom of the five slots (i.e. it's richest). Won't start in any other position.

2) I turn her over for three-five seconds on 30-60 percent throttle, and then quickly back down to no throttle, keeping the starter button pressed and she roars into life and ticks over fine. (tickover is 1300 rpm)

Thirdly, she seems to rev fine all the way up to about 5500-6000 revs, then just loses power. Standard jet is 125. I've tried a 130, 135 and a 140 and it only seems to raise the max revs slightly. (Redline is 8000rpm)

Air/fuel screw is currently at 2 turns out - she starts anywhere between 1 turn and three turns out, but seems happiest ticking over at this. No physical way to adjust this whilst running, despite my ingenuity.

I'm hoping some carb sages are going to shed some light on this. Would the standard pilot jet be THAT effected by the changes, and how does it explain the bad starting before the filter change? I've cleaned out the carb, by the way, so I know there's no blockages going on here, and surely it would be a bugger to tick over if the pilot was dodgy?

*Bangs head against wall*

But I've learnt SO much about carbs in the past few weeks, which is a good thing...

[guest27]

The needle should not impact starting, but you are then cranking it on a fairly open throttle before starting - suggesting that you are flooding the fuel from the needle to get enough in to start the thing - would suggest to me that the starting jets etc are an issue.  Blocked, not big enough (fuel) too big (air) depending on which is bled on choke.

rough running - is this on the stand or under load?  What sort of throttle opening?

My guesses

R

[Majik]

This is all on the stand at the moment. Trying to get the starting problem and getting all the way through the revs sorted before I worry about power.

Throttle opening is anywhere above 60 percent really.

If I back out the fuel/air mix screw, should I be able to get away with putting the needle back to it's mid position start her? (this seems a much better point to diagnose)

[Steve H]

If it were me I would only change one thing at a time, so I would fix the choke problem and get it running correctly with the standard air box and air filter. This way you will always have a reference point you can go back to when juggling jets/settings get confusing.
It would be useful to know if the Goose has a slide carb or CV type carb, with a CV carb the throttle position is not directly related to the slide position.
When you say it doesnt rev out does it just stop revving out like it doesnt want to rev any more , or does it stutter.
Revving on the stand wont tell you much as there is no load on the engine, you need to ride it.

[Majik]

Hi Steve.

 CV carb (rubber diaphragm, raises and lowers with needle down the middle into main jet?).

It kind of bounces off at 6000rpm - like the fuel or air is cut.

[guest27]

Agree with Steve - need to get it running right with the airbox etc before getting it running right without and revving on the stand is different to revving under load, though I would not expect it to not rev out on the stand and be OK under load.

My guess is that when it is getting to 6k it is drawing on the jet needle / needle jet combo and is getting too rich because of the choke issues.

1.  Get the choke issue sorted - if it has been running on part choke because the choke has not been closing has anything been adjusted to compensate for this?


IN the mean time how about.  Get the bike running and warm so choke is not needed.  Set every thing back to standard - air screw, mixture screw etc etc and the needle. Air box on, all joints tight.  Then start her up and see if it is different.  If the adjustments to the needle are allowing it to start by drawing fuel into the pot on an open throttle, it may be flooding the pot on 3/4 throttle / higher revs.

To a certain extent the only jet that NEEDS changed when junking the airfilter would be the main jet as this is the one that meters fuel at WOT, when all that new air is rushing in.  The needle may need richening off a little, but often is not bothered with.  The old LEDAR kits used to be main jet only.  If you are having to fiddle with the needle I would think the proble is elsewhere and you are covering one issue whilst creating another.

Does that make sense?

R   

[Majik]

Thanks Rog - all peachy clear. Last nights efforts:

 

Everything back to standard. New choke cable fitted. Adjusted the valves (badly - finding TDC is a bitch!). Didn't have the original airbox with me (it's at the missus' place). Got her started, but there is a hole of 2000 revs between 5500 and 7500 where it takes great patience and holding her mid throttle to get her to rise. WOT - engine dies. Don't know whether she's choking or drowning though.

Agh!!!!

Airbox to be grabbed from missus tonight and put back on - be surprised if it makes THAT much difference in the hole though, and she's STILL a swine to start.

 

[guest27]

Look forward to update

R

[Majik]

Update - Check it out! Direct from Suzuki Head Office in New Zealand via email - The standard carb specs and setup for the Goose (PDFd by me to be geeky)

Customer service, or what?

[Steve H]

Airbox to be grabbed from missus tonight and put back on - be surprised if it makes THAT much difference in the hole though, and she's STILL a swine to start.

Ive found that just removing the airbox cover on an SRX makes it run weak. So it should make a difference. Just removing the snorkel on a my DR750 made the torque curve 'rough' on a dyno. So in my experience they do make a difference, especially to CV carbs.

[guest7]

Customer service, or what?

Bloody right, Honda UK can barely remember that they imported the XBR, let alone answer any question about it.

GC

[Jez F]

I've been having similar problems with my Nordwest. It's been sat in the garage for a while and didn't want to start up, so after stripping and cleaning the starter motor,so it would spin fast enough, and a new plug it eventually coughed into life, although a bit on the rough side. Off to get MOT and it wouldn't pull under load and spluttered to a halt. Pushed it back to the local garage for some fresh fuel and it ran better but still as rough as a badgers ar$e. Got to the MOT and the guy who runs the place recommended bunging some STA-BIL into the tank. Gave it a try and after about 5 miles it was running a lot better. Now no problems with starting and it'll pull full throttle.
Jez

[Steve Lake]

rough as a badgers ar$e.

Excuse me.....We get a bad eniugh press as it is, wot with being accused of spreading TB, and being culled, wivout you bleedin bikers puttin it about that we have rough ar$es.....I'll have you know Mrs Brock finks I have an exceptionally nice ar$se...

Mr Brock the Badger

[blew]

I had problems with an XBR I bought last summer.It started easily,pulled well in mid-range on the road,but refused to rev.Maximum of 6500 in neutral,about 70mph flat out.Tried another CDI box,spent God-knows-how-many hours tinkering with various carb jets etc.,to no avail.I finally lifted the rocker box and found the cam was timed on the F mark,not the T........