Start the week topic; is 1000cc big enough?

[Andy M]

Ok, I was reading a thread on another forum. There is a guy with one years riding experience who thinks he needs a BMW R1200GS so he can be like that actor and his mate. The BMW dealer has arranged the test ride of course and will no doubt leave the Touratech catalogue in the loan sign up waiting area. This rather set me thinking. I've been the route of litre plus and would honestly settle on something 500-900cc every time based on the experience. I'm probably talking to the converted here, but what's the point of a 1200cc bike that'll double the speed limit and do very little a cheaper to run, easier to ride 650 won't? I know Germans who run at 150 mph pretty much anywhere (because they can) and they all ride 900cc Japanese 4's of various sorts. 

Andy

[Richard]

What has the CC of a motor got to do with anything ?

Power, torque, characteristics are what matters.  I would rather learn to ride on a softly tuned 500 single or twin that a peaky but mega powerful 250 for example.  My Beemer puts out rather less power than any 600/4 I can think of.

I have NEVER understood the manner in which the bike and car world is obsessed by the swept volume.  Racing for example would be far better served by imposing a fuel limitation rather than cc limit.  I suspect it lies in the very distant history of motorised transport.

Engine size should be similarly of little relation to the cost of the bike - size of pistons is hardly a determing factor in overall cost is it ?

My two pennorth.

Richard

[Bill Rutter]

The biggest bike I've owned was a 1979 Suzuki GS850N which, good bike though it was, never got under my skin like the KH250 it replaced. Since then I have kept it pretty much 650ccs although BMW dealers keep loaning me big tourers. The K1200RS rocket that they leant me once frightened the s**t out of me yet the R1150RT was a peach of a bike, like a big old faithful Labrador.

[jules]

I think it depends entirely what you are using the bike for, i would have another GSX1400 tomorrow
if i had the cash,i would also have another Aprilla pegaso without hesitation, but i would not be able to do two up touring to the south of France in as much ease and comfort on the latter.

And when it comes to pulling a chair,no contest.


HORSES FOR COURSES

[squirrelciv]

I'm with Richard on this one, it's not the CC that counts, but the power/torque you get, and then, what you want to do with it once you've got it.

Right now, I'd swap my 650cc NX for my old 500cc CX because it would be a smoother, comfier bike for the 50 motorway mile commute. Then again, if I worked and lived in the same town a nippy little 350cc DR would be the perfect tool.

I do think there is a body of muppets out there though, who buy a bike purely as a status symbol, but that's ok, it's their money after all. Like the guy at the end of my road who travels to the same work place in Cardiff every day, yet seems to need a GS1200 with full touratech panniers and SatNav to do it





 

[robG]

Power, torque, characteristics are what matters. 
 

Quite right ,Richard .
I'm fortunate at the moment to have a varied stable.A XS 11 shares space with a 250 rs and a Hinckley Bonnie.Both the four and the single will be 27 this year , so are hardly cutting edge . However , the 11 has grunt aplenty and soaks up the miles , be it two up and luggage or just me out for a bimble. Nice A road or motorway , great .I still chuckle at the 50mph roll on in third  .However,get on the twisty bits and if you're not careful it becomes a real pig in knickers  . The rs however is great fun on the bendy bits and will do the back and forth to work thing 'til the cows come home . The bonnie drops nicely between the two. It'll do distance { splashed to Dent '07 two up },will commute and you can have fun on the point and squirt stuff .{and it sounds nice!}
I have owned previous examples of both the 11 and the rs ,twenty odd years ago {!! !} and buying these two was like meeting old chums again.Then again I would have a 500 kawa triple again tomorrow. Just to relive the sheer anti social, gas guzzling mayhem that goes with them!  Buying a new Triumph was something I always wanted to do,ever since I saw my first T140 .
 I agree with Jules , horses for courses,but we all ride the bikes we do for different reasons. If Johnny lado wants to dress like a power ranger and take his plastic fantastic out on every sunny Sunday to float his boat, then who am I to criticise?

Rob .

[Andy M]

The points about cc are totally valid, the discussion on HUBB was based on capacity, so i really just followed suit. If anything I guess we should talk power to weight? While I don't think I'll ever get one, performance wise a Harley at 1?00cc, 80 HP and a lot of weight probably would suit me better that say an Aprillia 125. It is horses for courses, I guess I'm just struggling to see what practical purpose the proposed R1200GS would serve. I'd be the same with the Harley or Aprillia, both turn petrol to noise at the wrong ratio for me! There again, I've been there and done that, maybe it's something we need to get out of our systems?

Andy

[guest24]

I am going to squeak now as I have the tiniest bike (YBR125) that suits my current riding. I commute into central London from the outskirts on 30mph roads all the way with bumper-to-bumper traffic and roadworks, traffic lights etc etc. It fits through the smallest gaps, turns like a bicycle and sips petrol. I feel ill at the thought of doing it on a BMW1200, unless of course I could use it as a battering ram! 

However, I do plan to get to the annual rally this year and am feeling very worried that if I don't get my SRX fixed that I may be seriously contemplating travelling on the YBR...oh joy, I will set off 2 days early as its not the fastest bike I have ever had. 52mph is my current top speed achieved across Mitcham Common 1/3 mile drag strip.

Oh, biggest bike owned in 25yrs of riding is a CBR600. Most common size for me is 400cc. Maybe when I grow up a bit more I will get a litre sized battleship and the corresponding bank loan to fund its tyres, fuel, drive train, and other consumables.

[Andy M]

Average speed could be next week's topic! I set my GPS to zero on September 1st. Since then it's recorded the repmobile and outfit. I'm not going to publish the maximum it's seen, but lets say I try to be the second fastest rep in sight a fair bit of the time. The moving average speed over 4 months and 9000 miles is 41 mph. This is 1 mph slower that a 3000 mile trip to Italy I did back in 2003 on an 1100cc BM. I can pick out the Llanthoney trip and the outfit averaged 42 mph. I think that's just the speed Europe seems to run at.

If this is true, I'd guess the YBR as a long distance tool would arrive a few minutes after the BM once you took into account the amount of stuff you carry and so on?

Andy

[robG]

You have to take into account riding style , experience ,ability {the phrase the older i get the faster i was looms large!}as well as the power/weight/handling of the bike .
I have already found stretches of road where I'm better off on the 250 than the 1100,which can corner like a shopping trolley if I'm not paying attention .

I know that I enjoyed the run to Llanthony on the rs .Saying that, I wouldn't have travelled the same roads had I used the 11 .It's all relative really.It has been said that regardless of if we are travelling across europe or going to the shops , as soon as you get on the bike the adventure starts.I agree. Large or small the fact that we use a bike is what counts.

As I'm often reminded , size isn't important. It's what you do!

Rob .

[guest18]

I think mostly anyhting above 800cc is not required. Of course for specialised apps like pulling a large chair then it may be useful but mostly it's just there because it's nice to have (the extra go!)
I commute, like many of you, year round and a Pan Euro looks very tempting as the temperatures drop and the rain gets worse... but if I'm honest a Deuville (sp?) would do the same thing at the same speed for less money... just not sure I can bring myself to ride something as alledgedly boring yet 
When I put my sensible head on, 650ish seems like the "perfect" capacity for an all round working bike (imho)

[Bill Rutter]

Ah, the venerable Deauville. Much maligned by those who have never ridden one or are never likely to need to. In my opinion one of the most sensible bikes out there if you don't go off-road. It could quite esily be on my next shopping list, but not just yet. It'll surprise a few bikes round the twisties in the right hands (not mine I must add) too!

[guest7]

Just to add to the debate. I do sometimes wish for a bigger bike. Being a lardy six footer on an XBR isn't always the nicest feeling in the world.

Suzuki did a good thing a few years ago, they made the 125 (and 250?) Varedero look like proper big bikes. A learner could feel that they were on a proper motorcycle, not some 'dwt' toy like a CG125.

Most times I'm happy on my little thumper, but sometimes I hanker after a Ténéré or DRBig, just so I would be on a bike that fits me.

Why in this day of space-age lightweight materials do the manufacturers still make bikes in sizes relating to their CC? 125s are tiny, Rocket IIIs are huge. what's wrong with making them in user-friendly sizes?
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[002]

Suzuki did a good thing a few years ago, they made the 125 (and 250?) Varedero look like proper big bikes. A learner could feel that they were on a proper motorcycle, not some 'dwt' toy like a CG125.

Honda not a Suzuki....still get the 125.Now with Fuel Injection of course.
Very nice bike to ride.
Dont know about a 250,could be possible in another market but not over here.


Jethro

[guest207]

it doesnt matter really as we all do what we want to do..if anyone says they "need" a 1200 they probably talking poo but nothing wrong with anyone "wanting" one each to their own, I have big vtwin a turbo 4 and 2 thumpers dont need them all but i do want them.