Author Topic: Tyre ratings  (Read 1514 times)

Steve H

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1855
Tyre ratings
« on: October 05, 2006, 01:38:36 PM »
The prices of Avon Distanzias varies a lt depending upon the rating.

'S' rated (112mph) £28.99
'T' rated (118mph) £36.99
'H' rated (130mph) £42.99

Now with the best will in the world the DR750 is never going to reach 112mph. Avon recommend 'H' rated, but this is £14 more, not much but adds up. I fitted H rated tyres on the SZR instad of the 'V' rated specified. I was recommnded to do this as the tyre walls are more suitaed to lighter bikes, problem is the DR isnt exactly light !.
Also I suspect if I fit 'S' rated and have an accident my insurance will be void !

Any thoughts ?


john g

  • Guest
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2006, 02:14:17 PM »
I tend to agree with the last comment about your insurance...........

andy230

  • Posts: 1322
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2006, 03:41:33 PM »
Yeah, but, no, but, yeah, but,

Is an insurance inspector going to notice your S rated tyres??  Does it say on the sidewall?  Didn't you just buy it with them on it??  (not that that makes a difference)

a

Steve Lake

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2396
  • Dyslexics have more nuf
Re: Tyre ratings yeh but no but , oh ok
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2006, 04:22:01 PM »
time was, when the world was new and i was on the same electronics course as a Mr Marconi...that it was sufficient for there to be no canvas visible, and i rode my bantam for 4 months using a guiness beer mat as a tax disc.....where's the fun in life these days??

andy230

  • Posts: 1322
Re: Tyre ratings yeh but no but , oh ok
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2006, 04:35:10 PM »
where's the fun in life these days??

Putting trackbikes on the road and using them to get to work or go on holiday is pretty good fun....

See!

   I was going to post an image here, from my C drive, but twigged that it needs a URL!  Boooo    :-(


J Hop

  • Guest
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2006, 05:11:40 PM »
Buy the cheaper S rated ones, if they are rated safe at 112mph they would have passed tests with a 25% safety margin (140mph).

An insurance inspecter is never going to check the speed rating on a trailie tyre.

As the speed limit is 70mph, why do we need tyres that are rated higher than that ;-).

squirrelciv

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1654
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2006, 05:55:28 PM »
I've got a 'T' rated front and a 'S' rated rear. When I ordered them from M&P those were reccomended. Apparently you can't get (from M&P at least) a 'S' rated 21" 90x90 Distenzia.Don't know if your supposed to mix ratings but as both have the same reccomended pressures and tread pattern, I didn't fret over it. Man on the phone said it was OK and I haven't had any problems.
Live long, live well, live happy

peterj

  • Guest
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2006, 06:48:41 PM »
I remember reading a report in a bike mag a few years back about an R rated back tyre that had failed on the back of a 350LC although the bike was travelling at well below the (95mph?) rating. They reconed that the rating was more to do with load than straight speed. Don't know whether I buy that theory at all, but the discussion just brought it back to mind.

I had a 500 gamma for a while before noticing the what I had taken to be Metzeler ME11's were actually Cheng Shin H rated (very similar front pattern), and it hadn't caused any problems at 140ish for short periods.

guest27

  • Guest
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2006, 09:06:59 PM »
Ahhh the limitatins of a side wall...

Does your bike gradually, very graduallu gain speed - loading the tyre very little and then slow very very slowly over about 20 miles?  If it does the simplistic side wall rating will be OK.  HOWEVER if your bike does 0 to 60 in less than 2 weeks and when you apply the brakes the thing actuall slows rather than relying on gravity and friction.  If your bike has a "Waaaaaahooooooo" factor on the twisties - rather than steering into the corners.  Then the legend on the side wall will have meaning.  There will be an error factor - and if they are using 6sigma then mosst tyres will massivly exccede the spec - but some will meet it.  If you have ridden for 100 years on an R ratd tyre when you really should have a V rated one means that either the manufacturer is spending more on the tyre than they need (the market says no they are  not) or you will come a cropper.  As to insurance , every insurance inspector I have come across checks tyre ratings.  They have the spec on what should be there and if it is under spec....

Arguably the tyres are the most important bit of the bike, scrimping on them is like buying a cheap crash helmet on the basis that most days you do not fall off and use your head as a brake.

There again I am paranoid.


Nope Paranoid was another member of the PPBC


Neeeeaaaaaaggggggggggg

R

Martin Churchill

  • Guest
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2006, 09:17:51 PM »
People commonly refer just to the "speed rating" of a tyre, however it is generally more appropriate to pay attention to the combined "load/speed ratings".  A tyre with a higher speed rating will usually have an appreciably higher load rating as well, due to the use of a stiffer sidewall, and this enables it to handle greater stresses (pillion/luggage/acceleration/braking/etc).

Given that the only part of your bike designed to touch the road is the 2 x small tyre contact-patches, and considering that all of your bike's engine power, handling, and braking inputs are totally dependent on the behaviour of the tyres - WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO FIT ANYTHING LESS THAN THE BEST AVAILABLE????

J Hop

  • Guest
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2006, 09:36:16 PM »
Given that the only part of your bike designed to touch the road is the 2 x small tyre contact-patches, and considering that all of your bike's engine power, handling, and braking inputs are totally dependent on the behaviour of the tyres - WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO FIT ANYTHING LESS THAN THE BEST AVAILABLE????

The best at what ?

If you are into trackdays then the "best" tyre is the one with the most grip and it will probably last 800-1500 miles.  If you ride 300 miles a week the best tyre is one that will last more than a month.  If you are skint then the best tyre is a compromise between grip and price.

The manufacturer might recommend a particular tyre, but they also recommend you take it back to them to be serviced every time, how many people can afford that ?

As far as I can tell the letter S is only a speed rating and has got nothing to do with load.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2006, 09:46:49 PM by J Hop »

squirrelciv

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1654
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2006, 05:59:21 AM »
Given that the only part of your bike designed to touch the road is the 2 x small tyre contact-patches, and considering that all of your bike's engine power, handling, and braking inputs are totally dependent on the behaviour of the tyres - WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO FIT ANYTHING LESS THAN THE BEST AVAILABLE????

The best at what ?

If you are into trackdays then the "best" tyre is the one with the most grip and it will probably last 800-1500 miles.  If you ride 300 miles a week the best tyre is one that will last more than a month.  If you are skint then the best tyre is a compromise between grip and price.

The manufacturer might recommend a particular tyre, but they also recommend you take it back to them to be serviced every time, how many people can afford that ?

As far as I can tell the letter S is only a speed rating and has got nothing to do with load.

Couldn't agree more :-) wear rate and price are the criteria top of my tyre choice. When I consider the crap I used to ride around on in the 80's and compare it to modern stuff, I think my modest speeds on 'S' rated rubber safe enough, and I do like a tyre to last over 8k, which is still under a years motoring!
Horses for courses if you ask me, and tyre manufacturer's too come to think of it. That's why they make a range in the first place.
Live long, live well, live happy

Steve H

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1855
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2006, 07:11:23 AM »
WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO FIT ANYTHING LESS THAN THE BEST AVAILABLE????

Its just a question of working out what is the best available. A simplistic approach could have you beleive that I would be better of fitting Z rated tyres to my bike because they are of a higher rating and therefore MUST be better. However this is not the case, the Z rated tyre will take ages to warm up, and hence provide less grip. I use the SZR as a good example of this.
I also find it difficult to beleive that there is £14 worth of diiffrence between 'S' rated tyres and 'H' rated ones.
If I really wanted to be cheap I would be considering cheap a nasty tyres from unknown manufacturers. I'm not

Andy M

  • Posts: 1709
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2006, 07:57:29 AM »
Remember this is from a brake point of view (work) and I am not a tyre expert:

Modern tyres are made on flexible production lines. The vehicle manufacturer therefore has two choices. He can buy whats on the shelf and test it, or have something made. The first choice is usually the only sensible one, but car manufacturers who want to style their vehicles (17" low profile etc.) will sometimes go the latter route. Having selected the tyre, the vehicle is tested, including type approval and released. The vehicle manufacturer then tells you to use Michelin whatevers as these WILL match what they tested to.

For the aftermarket people like Avon borrow a vehicle, look at the loads etc. and it lots of cases carry out a vehicle test before they publish their recommendations. The speed, acceleration, load, wear expectations etc. are all factors.

Whoever makes the new tyre then has to get it rated. This is test probably 50 years old that has two purposes, to give a level playing field and support vehicles that were never type approved. A tyre made in some Chinese boot factory is at least tested (the factory won't have seen a large bike), but it is a case of the lowest common denominator. You can also guess which tyre will work on a 1953 BSA and so on.

However, I'd want more that a guessed spec based on a basic government test. I'd go with what Avon reccomended on the basis that performance should be something like.

Andy

Steve H

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1855
Re: Tyre ratings
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2006, 08:55:21 AM »
Interestingly Avons recommendation for
my DR750 is an 'H' rated tyre for the front and 'T' rated rear
an NX650 an 'H' rated front and 'S' rated rear.

If load were a factor I would have expected the rear to be of a higher rating not lower.