Classic racing - cheats or not?

[guest7]

The one bike mag I still buy is Classic Racer and the issue that seems to be vexing most of the oldies racing fraternity is the way in which competitive G50s, Manxes, Triumph triples and the like are now made of new parts with all sorts of modifications.

The cost of building a top flight oldie racer is now seriously high.

This has led to rumblings about how the series no longer represents the spirit of the era these bikes were first raced in.

I havew mixed feelings about this. Where can they draw the line on modifications? Should classic racing bikes be preserved exactly 'as was'? It's an interesting point, and one that seems to divide the fans.

Any thoughts?

I'd say that if I was going to see classic racing then I'd like to see bikes that looked substantially like they did in their day. However, I'd also like to see competitive riders using them to the full.

GC

[guest40]

yeah a dilema, keeping in mind that the riders of the day modified and changed and lightened everything to an extent that not much resembled the original bike mechanically anyway. If the old riders would have had the metalurgy and modern materials available to them they would have used them. A mate of mine back in the late 60's had a 125 Benly Honda with a 7 speed gearbox??? and megaphones. If noise was power he would have won every race. Probably,if the outside looks similar, and parts sourced from the same era and modified accordingly then there should be no probs. Outright replacing with new concepts and materials and graphics sounds a bit out of place if one is supposed to represent the era of a time past.

[Steve Lake]

you need the judgement of solomon on this one....

On the one hand...the cost of a 100% original G50 or Manx racer is so high that they become ornaments and very rarely turn a wheel in anger, original NOS parts are pretty much unobtainium...so you can't blame the owners for not racing them
What tended (and still do) to get raced are 'bitsas'...made up from many parts of different ages from original to items CNC machined yesterday (allbeit an exact copy, made from a better performing material) and lets face it...thats how most racers have been built down the years...over the years all the factories (triumph, norton, velocette, sunbeam, ajs, matchless etc etc) fielded 'factory' machines which bore little resemblance (internally at least) to the machine that the man in the street could buy...
So....that leaves us with the guy who (at no little expense) puts an ABSAF (gold star) engine into a Tonkin frame (BSA copy) buys some nice akront rims, sets it all up, and goes racing....problem?....not from where i'm sitting it isn't....whichever route you take....racing these machines (new-old-inbetween) is bluddy expensive....they put on a great show, and good luck to all of them. (and anyway.....unless riders/owners are made to strip their machines down to the last nut and bolt at the end of every meeting the whole thing is completely un-policeable....so there :-) )

[guest288]

Well said!

If you look at the current superbike class, these bikes look exactly like ones you can buy on the street, but pretty much everything has been changed to try and get every last bit of power (220 bhp). Whereas the current superstock and supersport classes run standard bikes with bolt on stuff you or I could buy over the counter, so therefor, the bikes are more reliable.

I think that if I was racing a classic, I would choose a class where the bike looked original, but maybe some things were allowed to be changed slightly to make the bike more reliable. If I had travelled and given up a weekend to race my classic, I wouldn't then want to spend it sitting in the pits with a broken bike...

[guest7]

I think a lot of the griping is down to the sheer cost of being competitive in the class these days. In the past you had bikes like Tony Evans' Norbsa, built for peanuts and winning races... or Chris Willams' mad Panther outfits, but those days have (mostly) gone... Unless you count that pair of nutters currently campaigning a big wheel Triumph twin outfit.

I'd agree, if it looks original then that's fine. You can't blame anyone for using all the technology available to make a bike better.

GC

[Andy M]

As someone who'll cheat at anything it seems a fine line.

If I got a modern Hinkley triple with all the toys, crammed it into a modern Bonneville frame, added a lot of carbon fibre bodywork that happened to look 60's and used a couple of period whitworth nuts to hold the number board on, that IMHO wouldn't be classic racing. If might look right, but no way is it anything but a modern special made to a given look.

On the other hand, if they say the technology clock stops at 23:59 31/12/69, isn't everyone with money going to have a list of parts to buy to make the perfect top bike and it might as well be a one make series? If you don't turn up on the late '69 bike with the right mods you won't be competitive. Won't everyone spend the winter trying to prove carbon fibre was invented in 1914 but was kept under wraps for seventy years?

If they want cheap racing without a parts list that gives you a winning set up, wouldn't they do better forgetting the whole classic label and simply having a single & twins, no monoshocks allowed, weight controlled, 500-850cc class? Use a formula to set minimum weight based on age, layout etc. That way you can start with either a 60's BSA or a modern KTM motor and play your tunes from there.

Andy

[Gordon]

Well, having just started racing with the CRMC - I'm trying to look at the situation from both sides.
The Lansdowne series runs with bikes, much more 'as they should be' - yet still these are quite modified.
There just aren't the proper old bikes, with old parts out there to fill a grid or go racing.
You have to say, there is no such thing as cheap racing, cheap and cheerful racing, just no such thing.
Replica classic bikes, without them, there would be almost no classic racing. Without using replicas, it would get even more expensive, as it would drive the prices of real classic bikes even higher.
An example is the George Beale replica 250 Honda, costing approx. £250,000 if it was a genuine article it would be more like £2.5 million!!
Just my sixpence worth....
Gordon's dad.

[Steve Lake]

I agree with that.....and while you're on Gordon.....whats your Dad doing with you? he implied, that after you coughed up your insides all over the track at snetterton that he might get rid of you?

[Gordon]

I'm not sure yet, I'm very poorly and I'm looking for a new tuned engine so I can contest in the rest of the Championship. If you know anyone that might have spare one sitting in the corner of the garage please let me know. I'm handling great now and feel at last competitive running with the front group. It would be a shame to sell me off at this point!