I am not sure about this. Watch at your discretion.

[Steffan]

Did anyone notice the litter on the road that sent the first guy wide in the first instance? Personally I think the less people are interfered with the better! We don't need to be governed/interfered with/ nannied/regulated or generally mucked about by Polies and beaurocrats any more than we already are. Sure these two were riding like a matching pair of plonkers but that doesn't mean that people like me need to be further restricted or monitored to compensate. If they want to behave in that sort of manner then there is ample law to deal with it. Enforce the law on those that have no regard for it and leave the rest of the generally law biding (sp30s aside) to get on with their life without let or hindrance or surveillance.

Steffan

[Andy M]

Ahhh, now you are putting words in my mouth 
No, I'd allow mopeds from 14yrs, (strictly 50cc 35mph max, throw the (big) book at them if caught on anything else)
Then 17 motorcycle licence only, but you *must* hold a full (restricted or unrestricted) bike licence before you can get a provisional.
17 on car licence if qualified, but "p" plates and a say a 1300cc max capacity for the first year...

Alternatively allow a restricted bike licence between 16 and 17.

Benefits: More aware car drivers,
Learners starting with "road sense" aquired on mopeds
more people used to two wheels so there will be more remaining on two wheels in future therefore reduced congestion and we get to save the planet and reduce wear on the roads as a side effect...

Thoughts? 

I might want to change the numbers here and there but this is basically what I'd go for. Maybe the 14's should be restricted to daylight (plus school/saturday job opening times for those old enough to have a good reason to be out later) and bikes with an unrestricted HP limit rather than worrying too much about them fiddling with their speed limiters. I'd also want a very easy route to 125cc scooter ownership at 17/18 and a harder car test simply on congestion/fuel use grounds.

My idea would be to make it a lot of work (rebore) to increase the performance and reduce the times they can ride like muppets. It would be worth the manufacturers coming up with a 33 mph, 37cc, 300 mpg scoot if every 14-18 year old in the country was a potential customer. 50's and 125's then become a market for people who want to trade up with less cash outlay until they get a proper job (students, trainee's etc). I think it gets better as employers taking on 21 year olds would expect them not to be able to drive a car and would put them through more controlled training.

Andy

[guest27]

Retests....  Well actually I think we should all attain IAM - or equiv - standard within 5 years or go back to the start.  Reexamine IAM every 5 years - not L plates etc, just a confirmation of driving standards.

Also I think the licence points should be more encouraging - say start with 3 points available and add one for each year driving.  Johhny flyboy in his CLio with drilled pipes could loose his licence in the first week, 6 months or a year off and then retest etc.  However someone riding for 10 years with no offenses would now be up to 13 points, 20 years 23 points.  A small lapse by an experiances (and IAM std) driver will nt cost as much as the same by a novice.  I also like the French insurance approach - they make it pretty cheap to start with and then increase it loads if you have an accident - seems reasonable to me.

R

BTW I am not IAM std so I am not talking about others....

[Andy M]

I have a big issue with the IAM idea. When you join you are like some public school bullies "Fag", buying his petrol, tea and cakes until a newer rider comes along. Could just be the local boys but they were a very poor example here abouts last time I checked. 50 mph in a 30 zone (and I saw the woman with the pram despite Mr IAM saying I made it up!), no thanks 

Now a proper test or training course, that'd do nicely. The police bikesafe is very good.

Andy

[guest27]

OK Point taken - as I have said before I gave up on the Northampton IAM as they seemed to think that you  needed a BMW and a broom handle up your arse before you could be considered a rider - and me on a RD500 was just the spawn of Satan.  However the point was an IAM standard or equivilent - Do RoSPA still do their Gold Star? - Mind I do prefer the IAM 'making progress' rather than the RoSPA 'speed limits are god' approach.  I feel our standard test may be OK as a starting point but we use it as an end point - we should all be expected to reach a much higher standard than we do and maintain it.  SO yes you are right - or I recognise - from a couple of experiances with the IAM they can be like public school boys and fagging.

R

[guest7]

I did my IAM course on a Suzuki Katana 550 that had to be bumpstarted 

GC

[guest18]

Sounds like a case for writing to the IAM to complain about the behaviour of their members!
I did mine with the Edinburgh lot and the only time I paid for the tea/buns was my own choice when I failed to spot the 50mph signs that everybody ignores on the city bypass then spent a while at 70 wondering why my observer was *wayyyy* behind me  it's a sort of workplace rule in my line of work that when you foul up in a big and embarrasing way it's your shout so I volunteered them!!
I certainly didn't pay for anyone else's petrol!
There was one muppet who was convinced he new more about everything to do with bikes then any "trainee" without actually bothering to find out what experience I had, but I only met him once and the others were very good indeed. Hence why I recommend the IAM to others, the ones I dealt with ran a very good and useful course.
Personally I take bits of their system and discard others, and the speed limit is considered a hard limit not advisory for the IAM, but you can still make excellent progress within that limitation! 
I would say if you meet groups or observers whose behaviour could give the association a bad name then write to the association and tell them, then find another group.
Can't speak for the bikesafe scheme as I haven't tried it but I've heard good things about it.

I have a big issue with the IAM idea. When you join you are like some public school bullies "Fag", buying his petrol, tea and cakes until a newer rider comes along. Could just be the local boys but they were a very poor example here abouts last time I checked. 50 mph in a 30 zone (and I saw the woman with the pram despite Mr IAM saying I made it up!), no thanks 

Now a proper test or training course, that'd do nicely. The police bikesafe is very good.

Andy

[Steve Lake]

well, i did the IAM thing on both bike and car about 20 years ago, when the kids wanted to learn to drive/ride, I figured i should do something like that rather than pass on all my bad habits.

certainly then, the IAM membership seemen to be populated by old duffers on bmw's or driving rovers.

and the idea of paying an annual subscription just so's i could say 'I'm in the IAM' seems bluddy potty! there were no other benefits (i see the IAM still propogate the myth of cheaper insurance)

So i just paid for the year i did my 'observed' riding/driving, and left it at that.....but it's the old thing about 'on that particular day, you drove / rode to a particular standard' you might never ride or drive to that standard again......although, to be fair....I got a lot of good information and tips from it....which i do try to encorporate into my everyday road use.

But......3 years ago I did the local 'Bikesafe' had to wait 6 months to get on it, permanently oversubscribed!....Now that was EXCELLENT.....4 evenings in the classroom with informal discussions, films showing techniques, lectures from police riders etc, there were always at least 4 police riders present each evening, and a nicer bunch of blokes it would be hard to find, then on the Saturday we assembled at 9 and went out for observed runs, 1 police rider to 2 students, covered over 200 miles round norfolk, stopping every 30 minutes for a de-brief and discussion about all the things we should be putting into practice (funny.....when there are 2 bikers in a layby standing next to a copper with a clipboard....bluddy idiot car drivers going past laughing...prats), then back to headquarters for a final debrief.....tea and biccies....and presentation of 't' shirts and certificate.....money well spent.......and as they said at the time....to the best of their knowledge no biker that had attended Bikesafe (in norwich) over the previous 6 years had been involved in a reported accident....must mean something...

I recommend the bikesafe course to anyone