Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: mthee on February 11, 2017, 01:32:10 PM
-
Some unexpected cash arrives next month and rather obviously, my mind turns to purchasing bikes :P
I can only afford one at a time, the XBR would have to go, so W650 (£3500) or V7 classic (£4500) to replace her?
Sorry it's not a thumper, but I only really liked the MT-03 which seems to have some issues.
-
I hope you don't mind me suggesting an alternative for you (as I hardly know you ;) ) but have you considered the earlier Hinkley Bonneville in 790cc,I have had mine over 3 yrs now and love it to bits,It's a bit different to a standard one as I have done most of the engine mods to mine,But it rides and goes like a good un now,You should be able to find a nice one for the money your talking about,Mine is around the 70bhp mark and has been totally reliable (so far)
Did I mention that I love mine ;D
-
You'll regret it....
-
I've had two out of the three
https://sites.google.com/site/threewheelguzzi/arriverderchi
https://sites.google.com/site/threewheelbonnie/
The Guzzi is a plaything that looks OK at first, is fun to ride but utlimately needed the sort of remedial work you'd expect of a Ural. The 790 Bonneville is almost as good in the look, noise, ride department but much more solid. At 8 years old I'd have little fear of taking one to Germany, while an out of warranty Guzzi needs thought.
I looked at the Kawasaki. They were harder to get bits for than even the Guzzi as Kawasaki don't care less if it isn't snot green. Its as heavy as the Bonneville but as low powered as the V7. I'd try one for sure.
Andy
-
And another thing ;D for that sort of money you can get a MASH and tell me what they are like (my likely next buy)
Cheers
Andy
-
You'll regret it....
But if I sell and trade up, I can always buy again if I seriously regret it. I just wish the XBR had a bit more oomph. A couple of times, I've been mid-overtake when the idiot car driver who was happily sitting at 50, has put his foot down and left me hanging in the right lane!
Thanks Half Ton and Andy. I'll take a look at the T100 and try for a test ride on a W650 which mostly, I like for kickstarter, bevel drive to valves and rarity. I'm lucky if I get to do 1200 miles a year btw.
-
Just been searching for the Bonnie and found this humourous review;
And if you found that amusing, here's another one of his on the W800, worth watching for the valve adjustment engineering alone;
-
can i suggest something please ? (but i would say w650 out of your choices)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sachs-Roadster-650-/222333497214?hash=item33c41bef7e:g:YiwAAOSwnHZYQcVb
-
I have been a owner of a XBR since November 2011 and in 2014 a Aprilia pegaso strada joined the collection if i had to choose between them the italian thumper with the Yamaha engine would be the first to go ............ the XBR will always have a space in the garage :)
-
Thanks, Spooky, but the Sachs doesn't do it for me aesthetically, although I'd love a go on one. Can I ask why you prefer the W650 over the Bonnie that's been suggested?
Another thumbs up for the XBR as well. I wish I could have a stable of 2 :'(
-
i just prefer the looks, i was only `choosing` between the w and the v7, a t100 would be very nice too..
-
If I failed to put you off the Guzzi, the manual I wrote (nothing usable from Guzzi is available ) is here
https://flic.kr/s/aHskUb2H9q
The order is a bit out as it got moved to flickr when Picasa became useless google pictures.
Out of the choices in post 1 I'd pick the W650. Throw in the Bonneville and I'd be torn. I picked the Bonneville for having 60HP and lots of support over 48HP and Kawasakis total lack of interest, but given my current direction is smaller and lighter would find it hard to choose (or I'd keep the XBR). I had a bad experience with the F650, so something so similar from Sachs would put me off.
I'll throw another one in: Harley Sportster. I had a test ride when I got the Bonneville. Its a good bike, but you have to live with the owners, club, marketing, dealers, public perception..... Probably a better bet than the Guzzi if you want a V twin though, Harley understand the electronics and there are independent workshops who do too.
Andy
-
Ahhh, looks! Yes, so important. I couldn't own an ugly bike, even if it made me ride like a champ.
It didn't take much to put me off the Guzzi (nice manual, btw!) which probably tells me how much I really like the W650. Last year, when I bought the XBR, there was a really nice W650 with fruity pipes and jet kit installed, just up the road from me which I wish I'd blagged a test ride on. At the time, because I was well short of the asking, I just pressed my nose against the shop window for a while and moved on.
A sportster?! My life would become instantly intolerable through mikeytaking, so unless I have to go into the witness protection scheme ...! A casual acquaintance has a big hog and goes on the rideouts which sound great - you and 15 mates on a run, but the whole "Son's of Anarchy" association puts me right off.
I might yet keep the XBR, but this money won't hang around long and I'd hate to be dispensing my ice from the front of the new fridge freezer, plonking myself down on a new sofa and dozing off in front of a super sharp picture on the new TV, only to dream of a different bike...!
-
get the w650.... :)
-
I'll definitely find a local dealer who'll give me a test ride, and then think long and hard before giving up the XBR.
I'm hoping someone here has owned or test ridden one? Even better, someone who has experience of the XBR as well.
I'm assuming the W650 (actually, 676cc) will overtake better, but won't corner as well? This would present a dilemma - keep the sweet handing and accept the lower HP, or sacrifice some handling for more HP?
-
Evening Matt, personally I think any given riding experience is what "you" make it, irrespective of what machine you're on and irrespective of CC's. just go with what your gut tells you and not your head. Give it a month in the saddle of whatever you buy and you'll be thinking "this is cool, I'm so glad I bought this bike" but the main thing is whatever bike you decide on, just get whenever possible and ride the thing. Cos let's face it you only live once mate🏍🏍🤘🤘
Best of luck with whatever decision you make....oh and just because it'll av one cylinder to many don't think you can't log in from time to time.
Cheers, Michael
-
Matt, you really must PM Rossco500. Tony has owned three W650s over the years, and even had a W800, which is much rarer. He loves the 650s, and although I've never owned one, I've ridden his, and really liked it too.
As for numbers of cylinders, Michaels exactly right. We don't get all anal about it, and if I can put up a post about dogs and football.......nuff said!
I've found over the years that us lot on this forum, tend to be into the same kind of non-thumper bikes anyway :)
-
hi not sure what you think of the yamaha trx 850 but there worth a look at nice bit of power and handle brilliant im sorry i sold mine but might have another line up tommy
-
Does the TRX have the TDM engine Tommy?
-
no even tough the motors look similar the same they have different internals nice bikes very understated i think tommy
-
Ive just picked up on this thread as my PC has been out of action for a few days.I have had several XBRs and currently rum a W650 and a Guzzi Breva 750 which is the forerunner of the V7 so please feel free to ask any questions.When i get time i'll try to post my observations on each bike.
-
Cheers, Michael, sound advice from a man who's been there is always welcome.
Thanks Timbo, will pm Tony. Would you take the W650 over the XBR if you could only have one? What about using the cash to pep up the XBR? I replaced a holed piston on a Quack multi in my youth.
Proper love that TRX, Tommy (nice one on fleabay) but my back couldn't even cope with the XBR's clip ons!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-TRX850-LOW-MILEAGE-UNMOLESTED-BIKE-IN-SUPERB-CONDITION-850cc-TRX-/152387244822?hash=item237afcd316:g:nlwAAOSwZQRYcVNn
Thanks, xbally, I'd be pleased to get your observations on both machines.
-
Right-here are my thoughts:both the W650 and Guzzi are heavier than the XBR-but still not heavy in themselves. The Kawa is not (as standard) sporty nor is it fast in any way or particularly torquey.Its looks in my opinion are its best assett-take of the tank badges and it could almost be a Brit bike.I understand they can be improved by changing the exhaust/air filter and jetting up but this can be expensive and really what's the point on a bike like this?Mine is great for pootling round the B roads / back lanes and will keep up with modern traffic if you want.Mine has just had the lower bars fitted as i found the front end very remote with the higher bars.Mine does have a very slight oil leak which seems to come from the bottom of the bevel drive-which makes it even more like a Brit!The kick start is useful as a back up .Braking and handling are fine for what it is.I always fancied a Hinckley Bonnie but they tend to be more expensive and i'm guessing heavier.The Guzzi is a better all rounder in my view.It will do almost everything and is full of character which you may love or hate!I love it!It is not sporty though.I have looked at upgrading to a V7 many times but when i test rode one for the extra outlay (£2K + depreciation on my Breva) i didn't think it was worth it but i do like the styling of the V7 over the Breva.Hope this helps.
-
Thanks, Martin. So, given its extra HP (and weight) how does the W650 compare to the XBR for ease of overtaking?
-
Matt-that's a hard one to answer.To me the XBR is a more sporty bike but i do know that horrible feeling you get when you are used to more powerful vehicles (applies to cars as well)where it's much easier to do a quick and safe overtake when you have plenty of power in reserve. I honestly don't think the W650 would be much better than an XBR but i don't ever ride my W650 doing a lot of overtaking-it's to me a much more of a chilled out ride.
Martin
-
I do remember when the W650 came out, there were lots of comparisons with the Triumph Bonneville, with the W650 coming out on top, as more torquey, even though its less cc. I know Tony rode both at the time to compare them, but he preferred the W650 too.
-
My thanks to Tony for his valuable input. Like SteveC, he reckons I may well regret selling the XBR. If I do, it'll be a double regret because mine has such sweet mods to the bodywork. However, next month, I'll be in a unique position to be able to afford to trade up and if I don't, I'm effectively saying the XBR is forever.
Damn you, Kawasaki, for putting out bikes looking like this!
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s556/gs500ey/s-l1600_zpshsqmu3da.jpg) (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/gs500ey/media/s-l1600_zpshsqmu3da.jpg.html)
-
I do like the looks of the W650, but although it's a bigger engine and more powerful on paper I suspect with the extra weight etc you won't notice much difference from the XBR. You don't want to be afraid of giving the XBR a bit of stick, it'll happily bop along at 4000 revs but drop it gear or two and you'll find you get a nice little power Serge above 6000 rpm and it really likes to rev.
-
Thanks, Steve, you could be right. With the oil usage, which I'm not used to, I've probably left this area of the tacho untouched. Also, I may have been asking too much. The last humiliating failure to overtake was on a short, sharp hill with an overtaking lane. I knew it was coming up and had her in 4th @ 4k, but when I opened her up to get past what looked to be a humble hatchback, the driver saw me, put his foot down and finally blocked me out at the top of the hill where the road returned to a single lane. Maybe if I'd had her @ 6k?
-
They do use oil - as long as it isn't excessive or you get blue smoke I wouldn't worry, just check it regularly. The motors are also pretty much bullet proof -the XR motor which it is based on has been thrashed and tuned to hell and back and has still proved reliable. Take it out somewhere quiet and give it a thrash over 6k in 3rd & 4th and see what you think you may be surprised ( 5th is basically an overdrive - it is probably faster in 4th flat out than 5th but not a good idea to thrash it that much!). Don't get me wrong, if you fancy a change go for it but I wouldn't like to see you get rid of that nice XBR and be disappointed with it's replacement. The XBR is one of those odd bikes that are nothing special on paper but just a really nice bike to ride.
-
is the w650 in post above the actual bike you are looking at ? it`s really nice, get it...
-
Isn't it! It's this one;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-W650-UP-EJ650-PERFECT-EXAMPLE-/232233741284?hash=item361235abe4:g:TNIAAOSwA3dYm4Fg
Too far to test ride, I'm afraid. Anyway, I'm off to abuse the XBR and see what happens - probably tomorrow. :D
-
Matt, I'm not to far from Preston (approx 30 mins down M65 motorway) so if you do come up norf to purchase the kwak it'd be good to meet up and possibly sneak a swift beer in🍺🍺..cheers, Michael
-
Cheers, Michael, that'd be awesome. Now that I've been looking at that W650 on eBay, the advertisement banner on this site has picked it up to torture me with. I'm looking at it as I type! :P
-
Just thought I'd post my thoughts on the W650 that I'd previously PM'd to Matt - Sorry if I prattle on a bit!
As Tim mentioned I've owned 3 w650s (first one crashed and replaced with another), a w800, a 2010 Triumph Bonneville T100 and numerous XBRs. I've probably clocked up about 35k miles on the w650s so I know some of their plus and minus points. Xbally has hit the nail on the head with his comments although I'd suggest they are a bit more torquey as a long stroke twin given their lowish capacity (in modern terms anyway!). The handling is much improved with lower handlebars and decent tyres although they can still become a little skittish approaching 80mph-ish. I suppose performance depends on the sort of bikes you have owned up to now - I find them quite lively (not having had any sports bikes or the likes!!) although you'll probably still have to drop a gear for any hairy overtaking manoeuvres. Realistically though I'm not sure how much quicker you'd find them over a well set up xbr.
If you can Matt, I'd definitely recommend getting a longish test ride to see if you like it. The Bonneville is quicker and better handling at higher speeds, but after a few niggly build quality and FI related starting issues I didn't really warm to mine - as I said, just not for me and I certainly don't want put anyone off the Bonnie - many will prefer them. The new range of models does appeal though. I've also had one of the first of W800s which was ok too - heavier than the w650 (mostly down to all the emissions kit in the exhausts?) - performance was broadly similar to the older model but more torquey at lower revs and just as, if not more economical. Unfortunately it just sounded so quiet ( Lol!) and I was aware of some problems with the throttle bodies and didn't want to get caught with a major expense out of warranty. I understand that these are eventually being sorted / replaced some years after the problem was highlighted by owners.
One thing I would say is that if you do get a w650 and find that its not for you should at least get your money back or possibly make a few quid. Its a pity you aren't able to hold onto your XBR as you'll probably regret selling it!
They can get a bit buzzy through the bars and pegs around 65mph but is ok below and above that. You may not even notice it and it varies from bike to bike. Some folks fiddle with the airbox and jetting but unless you know what you are doing this is maybe best avoided. However I have read that if done correctly in combination with some less restrictive pipes there can be small gains in horsepower (Check the John Haddock mods). Its quite easy to drill out the baffles for a much deeper note though they aren't bad with the standard pipes.
The engine seems to be quite a tough unit as evidenced in the old ebay link below. There have been isolated cases of teeth shearing in the bevel drive but this is rare.
The early models (A1) were all light blue/silver or maroon/cream with high bars and were made from 99-01. Post 01 bikes came with lower bars, some minor changes to improve handling and a more comfortable ribbed seat. They also came in a different range of colours and are probably the ones to go for.
Plus points -
They are a fun bike which is slightly different from most other stuff out there.
Easy, cheap to owner maintain and not hard on consumables.
Can be very economical 60 - 70 mpg fairly typical. I tended to get slightly over 50mpg from the Bonneville ridden at the same speeds
Fitted with centrestand, grab-rails, bungee hook points, toolkit etc as standard.
Watch out for -
Imports - not necessarily a problem but some of them aren't fitted with the carb heaters to prevent icing. Some of the Jap imports on sale at the moment may fall into this category. If they are European Imports they may be fitted with MPH clock overlays (look out for the word "Redial" at the very bottom of the speedo face).
Handling not too bad but can skittish as mentioned above - fit progressive fork springs / Hagons or similar shocks.
I have experienced carb-icing on one of my bikes in certain conditions but not on the bike I own at present. Not uncommon on some Kawasakis of that era.
They aren't overly quick but I suppose most folks going for this type of bike are well aware of that.
The youngest of them is now 12 years old.
I'd recommend having a look at these websites / forums :- ADVRIDER (W650 - under "new to me"), The Lonely Ones and w650shop.de. Also check out John Moulton's review of his own w650 in the Real Classic website.
And have a look at this 100,000+ mile example sold years back on EBAY. Scroll to the bottom of the link for his description:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150589903734
Hope this information is useful but as I said Matt its worth taking a test ride to see if you like it or not
PHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All the best
Tony
-
Take it out somewhere quiet and give it a thrash over 6k in 3rd & 4th and see what you think you may be surprised ( 5th is basically an overdrive - it is probably faster in 4th flat out than 5th but not a good idea to thrash it that much!)
Aaaaah, I see, Steve! Bit of a revelation to me, really. Only just back from a 25 miler, my first since discovering I had a windfall coming, during which I took your advice and pretty much didn't use 5th. The sound of the motad howling at 6-7 1/2k! No gushing oil leaks, phew! I was worried the slight weep from the cylinder cover bolt might reappear when thrashed, but it didn't 😓
I guess my desire for a W650 has been (partly) extinguished - it's never going to sound as good, or be quite such a good fit, given how small we both are! The money can go in the bank and on some new gear without my feeling guilty.
I know I'll have a W650 as well as, not instead of, one day. My thanks to everyone who contributed, especially Steve & Tony.
-
Matt,i think you may have made the right decision!Since i sold my last XBR i've missed it quite a bit.Thanks to Moto63 i am soon going to be back in the fold.I would see if you can save up for the W650 ,but certainly take a test ride and DON'T SELL THE XRB-as others have said-you'll regret it!
Martin ;D
-
Thanks, Martin. I really feel this windfall instantly put me in a bike-buying frenzy in which all logical thought abated - I HAD to get a different bike. Lucky for me, the wiser heads on here pulled me back and I (eventually) saw sense.
-
A lot of folk seem to think that because it's a big single it's an old plodder like the old Brit stuff but it isn't, it's based on the XR500 desert racer and goes pretty well when you give it a bit of throttle ( for a 500 single). I think you probably made the right decision in not selling it Matt, but you can always save up for the W650 as well...it is a very nice looking bike.
-
Thanks, Martin. I really feel this windfall instantly put me in a bike-buying frenzy in which all logical thought abated - I HAD to get a different bike. Lucky for me, the wiser heads on here pulled me back and I (eventually) saw sense.
In my case i wouldn't say i was wiser-just have a lot of experience chopping and changing bikes........it's very easy to get carried away when you have some money burning a hole in your pocket....don't ask me how i know!
-
an old plodder like the old Brit stuff
Ahem.......
(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vintagebike.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F09%2F1960-norton-manx.jpg&f=1)
-
not that im ever going to be accused of recomending one, but i suppose the residuals on the sportster will be better if you decide to sell it on, but as has been said, you have to cope with the hog bores whenever you park up, and reliability can be an issue with them, mate of mine spent years saving to buy a sportster, and loved it, but it was fantastically unreliable in the way that only a chinese design assembled in russia by chimpanzees on crack could match.....
-
.. chinese design assembled in russia by chimpanzees on crack could match.....
I've had BMW's. :(
Andy
-
an old plodder like the old Brit stuff
Ahem.......
(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vintagebike.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F09%2F1960-norton-manx.jpg&f=1)
Ok, Ok ... not all Brit singles :-[.....I was meaning more the sidecar pullers and go to work plodders etc.... I'm sure you know what I had in mind.
-
Hi Matt - sent you a PM
Regards
Tony
-
.. chinese design assembled in russia by chimpanzees on crack could match.....
I've had BMW's. :(
Andy
so have i, and still do. fantastically well designed and put together bikes every last one of the ones ive had.
-
Just done a deal today. Swapped my BMW 650 Sertao for a W650. Picking it up on Tuesday - my birthday ! Really enjoyed riding the BMW but never felt comfortable with ownership - all the electronics and quirkiness. I'll be thumperless now - first time in many years. Hope to have a good summer and enjoy the twin.
-
Great choice, hope it's as good as I think it will be and if you have time to post, especially photos, I for one would be very interested.
-
Yeah, +1 on that! Love the W650`s, never had one but one day I will ;) Good luck with it ;) ;)
-
Great choice. W650s are lovely bikes, health to enjoy Oz :)
-
Nice one. Enjoy it. Hope the weather is better for the maiden voyage.
Andy
-
Good luck - i would probably be getting my W650 back on the road now but i am getting back int XBR500 ownership so it will have to wait for a bit.Awful weather here today and has seemed like it since last Autumn....it must improve soon........
-
Thanks for the nice responses. It's not like I'm having a baby but it's always good to get a new bike. I'll let you know how I get on
-
I had a W650, drove it to Poland with camping gear too.
Got a thicker seat made for it, and motocross bars, however could bever quite get the ergonomics perfect (6' tall, skinny). Shame, it was nearly right.
Loved the MT03 except REALLY REALLY uncomfy, seat and ergonomics.
Have got XBR, slightly taller bars (CBX5?) and can do 300 miles in a day. Yep, it not hugely fast, handling not hi-tech, and not as cool-looking as SRX. BUT IT's easy to live with.
Could you KEEP the XBR...and BUY summat else? Then sell if not right? TRX850/SZR660 maybe?
Or buy lots of crazy bits for the XBR.??
-
Any chance of posting a bit about your experiences on the MT03 ( the 660?) I nearly bought one but was put off by the seat stories and fueling glitches. Did you have a power commander fitted?
Can you post a pic of your XBR with the CBX(550?) bars on, as I've heard of but never seen this setup?
After taking sound advice from SteveC#222 (see above) my interest in the XBR was rekindled.
Realistic (dream on, more like!) 2nd bike hit list - W650, TRX850, MT03,
-
I've heard of the CBX550 bars mod and would also be interested in seeing a pic if poss although i don't find the standard bar set up too bad at the moment but as i get older,wanting to keep an XBR now long term,i think i may need to make this mod at some point.......
-
Pretty sure I got the hbar mod from THIS FORUM! Bars are the same design, maybe a couple of inches higher at max so look standard at first glance but take a fair bit of weight off middleaged wrists. Can JUST get away without changing cables, brake line, wiring (I think I raised the headlight slightly to get the wire length). No need to drill top yoke, all can go back to standard.
Will try to take photos.
MT03? Looks and sounds great, handles and brakes, very forgiving and a huge laugh. EXCEPT sore bum within 5 miles, sore shouldersto follow. It's the only bike my wife has ever got a sore a&£e on when on pillion (she is much better padded than me). I had a Triton with a wooden seat and that was ok (vibro massage helpful).
Bought inflatable Airhawk seat which helps lots (did 200 miles one day), but it really is horrible. Now they are 10 years old, there will ge rust everywhere, it's a Yamaha (I think Italian) and ridden by nutters, really bad owner profile except me and Forum readers ;) . Mpg drops like a stone above 60 or on mway, but...it dows look lovely. Oh, luggage melts VERY easily, high exhausts get hot enough to melt stuff that even gets NEAR.
I bought rear rack, centre stand, and had extended battery keads for charging, testing, and electric jacket. It's an hours labour to get to the battery.
ALMOST a wonderful bike. Almost. BUT DON't do it.
-
Thanks. Now stricken from list. Perhaps all these faults are the reason Yamaha changed it so completely. Maybe I'll tease myself with a test ride one day!
-
I fitted CBX bars to my XBR.To be honest,the difference is not that great.I'll try to take some photos.
-
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/johnhwilliams/Bike/IMG_11831_zpsxxauixcp.jpg) (http://s576.photobucket.com/user/johnhwilliams/media/Bike/IMG_11831_zpsxxauixcp.jpg.html)
-
Thanks-keeps it looking pretty standard ;D
-
My thanks too. Allows a bit more sit up whilst the forks retain their original height in the yokes?
-
Nothing needs to be altered.Fork height,cables,etc. all remain as before.There is about 2" difference,I suppose.It is nicer,and it looks standard.Make sure you get the bar ends with the bars-the "ends" or weights (whatever they are called) extend under the twistgrip for about an inch or so.
-
There's 2 left hand ones on Fleavilbay at the moment...wouldn't you just know it............
-
Sorry, a bit late to the party, here's my CBX550 bars/XBR500:
https://flickr.com/photos/55302838@N06/sets/72157681162029265
And now I'm embarrassed at how anky my bike is looking! Not lots higher, but they stick out more rather than drooping. If u can get them cheap, deffo an improvement (can now do a few days camping, or long day 300 miles plus.
Even higher might be nice...
-
I have just acquired a rough XBR with a home made bar conversion.I've never posted pics on here.Do i need to go to a hosting site like photobucket or flikr! Be warened i am absolutely useless with computers!
-
Think so, but someobe who KNOWS might be along soon. It's not THAT much of a pain, and may be useful for other thngs too. And it's free.