Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: mthee on May 15, 2016, 06:32:23 AM
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Got time yesterday for the oil and filter change on XBR which went smoothly, employing SteveC#222 method of cracking the oil feed to the head. Put 1.7L in which registered 1/3 up the dipstick.
The first ride was great! (once I remembered I had to turn the fuel on😃) I took it gently, but soon realised she really can handle sweetly - very planted up as far as the front, which felt a bit light/vague by comparison and did cause me to pucker up to the seat (!) when I hit one sharp bump, mid-corner. It could be the lack of clip-ons, with my more upright bars not putting enough of my weight where it was designed to go? I felt more sat on her than in and was surprised how high the footpegs are set.
The best sound and smallest turning circle of any bike I've been on with fewer vibes than I was expecting.
I only had the chance to go 12 miles, but she's a definite keeper. I'll change the fork oil and front tyre next, maybe keep an eye open for a set of clip-ons. Now it's just a matter of upping my game to match what she has to offer and mastering that kick-start, so I can get her to fire first kick for when she gets parked along the seafront. Shameless posing is no respecter of age!
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So you finally got the keys!!
I haven't ridden an XBR with high bars but you could well be right - there are a pair of XBR bars on Ebay at £25 a side. I would junk that front tyre as soon as you can as thats probably a big factor in the vague front end, they usually feel pretty planted. I use SAE 10 fork oil on mine which seems about right for me. I also put in a 1/2 inch spacer on top of the fork spring to stiffen them up slightly which seemed to work well. Now you need to take it for a good ride ( preferably somewhere with a long tunnel so you can really hear it!)
Yes, kickstarting is the pose however the ultimate pose is kickstarting a Cossack by hand! ::) ::) ( don't try it on the XBR!)
Once you get the feel for it don't be afraid to rev it a bit, it'll plod around quite happily at 4000rpm but start changing gears at 6000rpm and you'll find it goes quite well ( for a 500 single).
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Good to hear you're out n about on the steed Matt, I popped hagon springs in the forks on my cafe racer which defo stiffened up the front end, however my bars were dropped below the top yoke and not above it as standard. Oh and by the way....happy 50th mate, which is why I'm assuming you've managed a ride out ;) ;)
Cheers..Michael
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Thanks for the advice. I'll examine the fork internals, change the oil and get a spacer in whilst the wheel's out for the tyre change. If that's not sufficient, I'll try the progressives.
Yeah, 50 now, Michael, thanks. A bit uneventful, as me and the missus have been up the hospital with our lad who needs a gallbladder op, so only got a short ride out yesterday. Been in since the 26th April as there have been complications, not least of which, an aborted endoscopy.
Anyhow, as you know, hospitals can be mind-numbingly boring, so thinking about the XBR and having access to this forum have really helped.
I'm dying to get back out on her again sometime this week and just remembered that I'd neglected to check tyre pressures - doh! (28 both ends?)
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Bad news about your lad Matt, hope it all goes well for him/you all. The big five oooohh my goodness. Well done fella ya made it. Yes like (I think it was Steve) said defo keep up with checking those tyre pressures, I found it made a fair bit of difference to the way the bike felt if they were out, so at 28psi front and rear it doesn't surprise me that it didn't handle quite right. Once I'd got mine set up properly it handled well and felt generally planted, it sometimes used to shake it's bars a bit but I was usually fair going at the time. Plus it can depend on what you've been used to riding?? Compared to my triumph 1050 speed triple the handling felt very slow but it's a 1980's middleweight things have clearly progressed since then. Like I say tho once fettled properly it handled well even when we (me n bro) were shifting.
Best o luck with ya next ride out n let us know how you get on. Cheers...Michael
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I have a pair of cbx 550 bars on my xbr.They don't make that much difference to be honest,and I can't feel any difference in handling.
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Cheers for that. Did you raise the forks up? I just reread some bookmarked searches for mods which revealed many with clip ons have raised their forks in the clamps by 1/2 to 1inch. Mine has a bar on risers and forks not raised, so (unless shorter tubes were substituted) has a lot more rake which might also go towards explaining the vague feel at the front. Might be another reason to return the original clip ons, although that would mean taking the decompressor cable off the lever currently on the bar and returning it to it's original position + purchase original top yoke. Hmmm. Pint please!
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Looks like the CBX bars would require the tubes to come up through the top clamp the same as the original bars in order for them to clip-on. Just measured my tubes as only coming 6mm above the top clamp with only 10mm more to go before the fork cap hits the underside of the handlebar. So even having raised the tubes up as far as they'll go, I'd still be raked out by comparison to the stock set up and even more so compared to those who have raised their forks further up than stock to improve the front.
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Looks like the CBX bars would require the tubes to come up through the top clamp the same as the original bars in order for them to clip-on. Just measured my tubes as only coming 6mm above the top clamp with only 10mm more to go before the fork cap hits the underside of the handlebar. So even having raised the tubes up as far as they'll go, I'd still be raked out by comparison to the stock set up and even more so compared to those who have raised their forks further up than stock.
They should go straight on.
I've just measured my forks from the top face of the top yoke to the groove just below the fork nut for the wire circlip and that is 35mm. If yours is less than that then it sounds like the forks aren't far enough through the yolks. You need to check this first.
If you start changing things on the forks only do it one step at a time. If the fork measurement is OK I'd still change that tyre first.
You can drop the forks in the yolks to sharpen up the steering but you only want to drop it by 1/2 inch. The fork spacers I used are actually kitchen tap adaptors from Homebase! they come as part of the tap kit but I didn't need them but when I was looking for some suitable spacers in my bit's box I came across them and they are a perfect fit, couldn't have been better if I'd had them turned up. I'm pretty sure I've got a pair in the garage, I'll have a look tomorrow and if I have I'll send them to you.
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Looks like the CBX bars would require the tubes to come up through the top clamp the same as the original bars in order for them to clip-on. Just measured my tubes as only coming 6mm above the top clamp with only 10mm more to go before the fork cap hits the underside of the handlebar. So even having raised the tubes up as far as they'll go, I'd still be raked out by comparison to the stock set up and even more so compared to those who have raised their forks further up than stock to improve the front.
If you're thinking of putting preload spacers in there, won't that increase the already over raked rake ?
I've always believed in having quality rubber underneath me but recently I took a chance and paid a price. My "tumble" reminded me of the value of decent quality riding gear too (which I have). Still managed to break my thumb though.
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Thanks for doing the measurement and your freebie offer, Steve. Never thought I'd be pleased to receive parts of a tap kit!
Here's a pic of my setup, showing only 6mm from top yoke to top of tube (not cap)
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s556/gs500ey/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160516_070436_zpsofma7bwi.jpg) (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/gs500ey/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160516_070436_zpsofma7bwi.jpg.html)
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If you're thinking of putting preload spacers in there, won't that increase the already over raked rake ?
Having seen your earlier posts on suspension mods, can you explain this for a complete novice, like me? I thought rake was just about how far out the forks were set?
Sorry to hear about your thumb. Which tyre caused your off? Mine's a Cougar which appears to be cheap enough to be discovered in a family size box of sugar puffs!
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I think we may have found your problem coz thats not right! That scribed line on your fork below the top yolk should be flush with the top of the yolk so the clip on fits onto it . It looks like the handlebar matey fitted won't let the stantions come all the way up through the yolk so you are sitting about 30mm higher than you should - I'll post a photo of mine a bit later
I'd still fit a better front tyre though.
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The big five oooohh my goodness. Well done fella ya made it. Cheers...Michael
Just reread this. Ha, ha! Thanks for your good wishes. Might hear today about the op and when we can get home. 8am - 10pm everyday up here for 3 weeks now. Mind you, the missus sleeps next to him on a camp bed, so I shouldn't complain, but I had been looking forward to my new bike. Selfish, but honest!
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I think we may have found your problem coz thats not right! That scribed line on your fork below the top yolk should be flush with the top of the yolk so the clip on fits onto it . It looks like the handlebar matey fitted won't let the stantions come all the way up through the yolk so you are sitting about 30mm higher than you should - I'll post a photo of mine a bit later
I'd still fit a better front tyre though.
Thanks, Steve. Now I know how far off I am - 42mm, if you add in the 1/2 inch mod over stock. So I reckon on tyre change + tubes up the remaining 10mm + new oil & internals check. Then see where we're at before shelling out. It's a shame the risers weren't positioned further back towards the stem which would have allowed the tubes to come further through, clearing the bars.
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Not a great picture but from the top of the yolk to the top of the fork nut is approx 50mm.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6pJO29mLX3A/VzmBKZLObcI/AAAAAAAAAl8/ff18vK9ffV0vhzyyRkhOjbnxmi2RjXVuwCCo/s640/DSCF0362.JPG?gl=GB)
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Cheers for that reference pic - very useful. I'm considering redrilling the top yolk to move the risers back to give clearance for my tubes to come up past the bar (see 1st pic of LSL kit) Then a clubman bar would transfer weight over the front like the original clip ons, whilst allowing me to retain the decompressor lever on the bar.
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s556/gs500ey/Mobile%20Uploads/lsl_xbr_zps3rswhnkj.jpg) (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/gs500ey/media/Mobile%20Uploads/lsl_xbr_zps3rswhnkj.jpg.html)
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s556/gs500ey/Mobile%20Uploads/_57%2017_zpspjywnl5e.jpg) (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/gs500ey/media/Mobile%20Uploads/_57%2017_zpspjywnl5e.jpg.html)
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s556/gs500ey/Mobile%20Uploads/100_9330_zpsgtjbiwkd.jpg) (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/gs500ey/media/Mobile%20Uploads/100_9330_zpsgtjbiwkd.jpg.html)
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If you're thinking of putting preload spacers in there, won't that increase the already over raked rake ?
Having seen your earlier posts on suspension mods, can you explain this for a complete novice, like me? I thought rake was just about how far out the forks were set?
Sorry to hear about your thumb. Which tyre caused your off? Mine's a Cougar which appears to be cheap enough to be discovered in a family size box of sugar puffs!
A spring will adopt a certain length when a certain load us applied. So, with either just the bike weight or with you on board but stationary the spring will still go to the same length. But if you add a spacer you're increasing the ride height. In effect you're lengthening the portion of fork sticking out of the slider. Longer fork length equals more rake angle.
The tyres were Michelin pilot road, but old and hard. Shiny and slippery on the sidewalls. They were fitted to a firestorm I bought. My plans were to swap em for some bt023''s pronto. Obviously not pronto enough!
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A spring will adopt a certain length when a certain load us applied. So, with either just the bike weight or with you on board but stationary the spring will still go to the same length. But if you add a spacer you're increasing the ride height. In effect you're lengthening the portion of fork sticking out of the slider. Longer fork length equals more rake angle.
So how about spacers if I get the forks back to stock position first and find the front still needs firming up?
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A spring will adopt a certain length when a certain load us applied. So, with either just the bike weight or with you on board but stationary the spring will still go to the same length. But if you add a spacer you're increasing the ride height. In effect you're lengthening the portion of fork sticking out of the slider. Longer fork length equals more rake angle.
So how about spacers if I get the forks back to stock position first and find the front still needs firming up?
Depends on what you mean by firming up. You won't change the spring rate. You'll need a new spring to get a new rate.
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Hi Matt, the hagon progressive springs do away completely with any form of spacer, defo made for a confident feeling front end. I had avon,s on front and rear, again quite a decent tyre, although I personally prefer the feel of Bridgestones, which I,ll be going with on the street tracker project I'm on with. Cheers. Michael
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Thanks for all the info. I'll get cracking asap. I enjoyed the first outing and am pleased there are instant improvements to be had for little cash. Can I try those spacers first, Steve? To go in once I've repositioned the bars, sorted the fork position and put a BT45 on the front. :) Hagon progressives worked well in my GS500, but after the new tyre, a further £85 spend will have to wait.
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A GS500 ya say Matt, got one of those myself on the bench undergoing eerrr shall we say "a little surgery" starting to look nice now tho.... ;) ;)
Cheers...Michael
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Hey Matt, if you fancy leaving your bars as they are, how about fitting something like these...bit pricey but may be of use?
Happy five-o by the way ;)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262305743789?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Hey Matt, if you fancy leaving your bars as they are, how about fitting something like these...bit pricey but may be of use?
Happy five-o by the way ;)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262305743789?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
That's exactly what I intend to make to convert my firestorm to renthals.
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Right oh, Dr. Michael! Now, how does that forum saying go? Oh yeah - "pics or it didn't happen" Great bike which I used to embarrass those sports bike riders I met on my local twisties who thought I was a learner to be overtaken as a matter of course!
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Hey Matt, if you fancy leaving your bars as they are, how about fitting something like these...bit pricey but may be of use?
Happy five-o by the way ;)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262305743789?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Nice! I'll see if there's room on the top clamp to reposition the existing risers so that the tubes aren't obstructed by the bar and blank off the old hole. If not, you've got the solution - thanks. 50?! Still trying to get my head around that particular number!
At least 6mm out, so no chance of reusing the existing risers on that top yoke. Looks like I'll be asking for a late birthday pressie on top of the new tyre.
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Right oh, Dr. Michael! Now, how does that forum saying go? Oh yeah - "pics or it didn't happen"
Oh it's happening mate, looking pretty groovy too, can't post pics on this site, (I'm not techno'd up enough sorry) however if you (or anyone else for that matter) wants to send me your e mail address I'll glady send some pics over to you. Plus this is the thumper club site so possibly having pics of a TWIN on there may just tip a few folk over the edge :) :) :)
Cheers..Michael
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See I told you I'm not techno'd up just can't Suss out how to do the quotation thing ;) ;)
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Hey Matt, if you fancy leaving your bars as they are, how about fitting something like these...bit pricey but may be of use?
Happy five-o by the way ;)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262305743789?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Nice! I'll see if there's room on the top clamp to reposition the existing risers so that the tubes aren't obstructed by the bar and blank off the old hole. If not, you've got the solution - thanks. 50?! Still trying to get my head around that particular number!
At least 6mm out, so no chance of reusing the existing risers on that top yoke. Looks like I'll be asking for a late birthday pressie on top of the new tyre.
I was speaking to a couple of guys at the Stafford show, "cnc yokes" I think the business is called. Nice blokes. Anyhow, they said they can do one off jobs......
I have their business card somewhere.
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Another vote for the GS500 here too. Great bikes. I had one for a couple of years, but in the end reluctantly sold it on as I just couldn't get a comfortable riding position. I removed the clip-ons and fitted 2" bar risers and then experimented with different bars, and though it was bearable for an hour or so, more than that was just too much for my knackered back and wrists. :(
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Thanks for the offer, Propeller, but having reviewed finances and prioritised new rubber up front, I think the very cheapest way forward is going to be for me to purchase aftermarket 35mm clip-ons of sufficient length to mount my decompression lever on.
There are loads online, but, not knowing quality were it to drive past on a Brough Superior and slap me in the face with a pair of Joanna Lumley's best underwear, I'd be pleased to get recommendations!
Like these for their full adjustability;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adjustable-35mm-CNC-Motorcycle-Bikes-Fork-Tube-Clip-On-Ons-High-Lift-Handlebars-/272150690169?hash=item3f5d71f979:g:jZwAAOSwys5WUCuP
Are the XBR clip-ons in one piece, or can I remove the bar itself and replace with a slightly longer bar?
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Thanks for the offer, Propeller, but having reviewed finances and prioritised new rubber up front, I think the very cheapest way forward is going to be for me to purchase aftermarket 35mm clip-ons of sufficient length to mount my decompression lever on.
There are loads online, but, not knowing quality were it to drive past on a Brough Superior and slap me in the face with a pair of Joanna Lumley's best underwear, I'd be pleased to get recommendations!
Like these for their full adjustability;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adjustable-35mm-CNC-Motorcycle-Bikes-Fork-Tube-Clip-On-Ons-High-Lift-Handlebars-/272150690169?hash=item3f5d71f979:g:jZwAAOSwys5WUCuP
Are the XBR clip-ons in one piece, or can I remove the bar itself and replace with a slightly longer bar?
No worries. Mick knows the e mail address if you need it. You might find the major issue dissappear's once you get a matched tyre on there anyway. Forks might turn out to be fine. Fresh oil perhaps. Anyhow, good luck.
Cheers
Andy.
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Morning Matt, yes like Prop says got e mail address of of cnc yoke guys, do you a top yoke for approx £120
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Is this, "cool n comfy" www.topyokes.uk? I'm a bit put off by some negative reviews. Also, I thought that it being a one-off, it would be more pricey than £120. The LSL kit manxie sourced is already in production, although it means my cash would go abroad 😬
Anyone used http://www.topyokes.uk ?
Oooh- just spotted these risers with offset;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALUMINUM-Riser-Increase-handlebar-22-mm-7-8-with-Offset-KTM-/361548551019?hash=item542df9136b:g:0RsAAOSws65TqYnc
But again from Germany!
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Matt, you can get risers that just go straight up too. Not sure what height bars you got but renthal ultra lows are..... well.... ultra low! ;D
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Inspired! Get some spacers to take mine up to provide space for tubes underneath, then compensate for this by using flatter bars. Off to take measurements...
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Those bar raisers are damn expensive - £115. Wouldn't it be better to get a pair of CBX550 bars from Ebay they'll go straight on as they fit the same as the original clip ons and the cables fit too. Also I'd reinstate the original decompressor set up from the kickstart if you can - can't quite see why he put the lever on the handlebars.
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Thanks, another option. I'm currently on my uppers, so have been looking at machining an angle on the 20mm spacer that sits beneath the riser proper. Just need 12mm clearance. The original site for the decompressor is blanked off and I don't know what is/isn't inside the casing without removing it, so I'm going to leave it on the bar for now and maybe look this winter. Looking over her, I just found 3 of the 4 bolts that hold the headlight brackets on were missing! Sorted now.😀
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You can get cnc riser kits for 25 quid. There are no moving parts and no rubber components so the Chinese just about cope with them. ;D ;D ;D
I've used some "q tech" brand ones twice and taken the raised semi circle off the bottom and they are sound as an English pound.
Renthal ultra low bars 30 quid.
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Maybe a bit radical this but could you go for clip ons and to make space for the decompressor lever use old Brit style switchgear? Just thinking out loud.
End of the day, Matt, maybe simply getting the right tyre on there solves all your steering issues. The bt45's are great road tyres. I swear by them on my gpz500 job.
One of the pleasures of running older stuff and /or custom stuff is the head scratching and the satisfaction of solving a problem. Imo.
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One of the pleasures of running older stuff and /or custom stuff is the head scratching and the satisfaction of solving a problem. Imo.
Thanks for looking into this so thoroughly. I totally agree with you and strangely enough, I'd just been reviewing both these options on ebay and Amazon before checking back here.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bikeit-Motorcyle-Bike-Scooter-Universal-Aluminium-Handlebar-Riser-22-2-mm-/262080001791?hash=item3d052f76ff:g:uGUAAOSwHjNV-EZb
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motofans-Motorcycle-Handlebars-Handlebar-Adjustable/dp/B01CL7WY58/ref=sr_1_8?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1463610567&sr=1-8&keywords=Clipons+35mm+fork
Would I need shorter cabling if I put these on? My bike pics here;
http://www.thumperclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=8109.30
Off to sleep on it, but I know myself and if I don't get those forks at least back to where they should be,I'll always have it in the back of my mind that the bike could be handling better. Psychosomatic like😁
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Hi Matt, looking at the photo,s of your bike/bars as they are at the moment, If you went ahead and installed the cnc risers on top of the bar clamps you already have, then fitted renthal ultra low bars which would then probably allow you to raise the forks back up to where they shud be. I wouldn't think you'd need shorter cables. Clearly a little difficult to tell without looking at the actual bike but I'd say your cables would be ok.
If my advise is completely wrong please go to suemyassoff.com for your free compo claim ;) ;)
Cheers Michael
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anyone remember what they used to call 'jota' bars? they werent cheap but they were fully adjustable bars that you could tailor your riding position with by adjusting little allen headed bolts in the ends of the sections. might be worth looking for a set because theyre pretty much infinately adjustable to suit whatever position you need.
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Hi johnr...yes I do remember them (I had a jota for a bit) they also used to do a very similar pair on the very first yam XJ900's that came out, brilliant bars as like you say ultimate adjustability. Good thinking that man.
Cheers..Michael
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End of the day, Matt, maybe simply getting the right tyre on there solves all your steering issues. The bt45's are great road tyres.
And so it came to pass...