Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: Steffan on December 24, 2013, 10:38:20 AM
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As the nearest thing to a chaplain as this organization is ever likely to have, it seems strangely appropriate for me to offer to you all my friends a very blessed Christmas
Nadolig Llawen!
Joyeux Noël!
Vrolijke Kerstmis
Frohe Weihnachten!
Steffan
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Hi Steffan
You must have been reading my mind as I was about to do the same. So to all Thumper folk..........
أطيب التمنيات وسنة جديدة سعيدة (try BabelFish translator (http://www.babelfish.com/))
Boyd
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I hope you all have a great Christmas and a happy new year
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A very merry Christmas to all members and all the best for 2014
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Thank you Steffan, :)
May I add my good wishes for a grand Xmas to you all, a healthy 2014 and in the words of the immortal Dave Allen "May your God go with you!". ;D
Slainte, Bill.
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Did you hear the one about the Irish turkey, who was really looking forward to Christmas! Anyway, Best Wishes to one and all for Christmas and the New Year.
Ron.
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A very merry Christmas to all members and all the best for 2014
What he said
Furry
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Hello chaps, been a while..
Vesele Vanoce !!!
Rob
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Hello chaps, been a while..
Vesele Vanoce !!!
Rob
Versace !!!!
And A Merry Christmas to one and all.
No Sign of the Big Fella YET !!!!!
Jethro
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Merry Christmas everyone. See you in the new year.
Trevor
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Christmas diner and wine just digested and it is time to wish you all an your family a happy new year.
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Hello chaps, been a while..
Vesele Vanoce !!!
Rob
Versace !!!!
Jethro
Bless you !
Rob
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Merry Christmas
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Hope you all had a good Wednesday and enjoy the rest of your food and time off.
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and as an avowed atheist with no religious beliefs whatsoever, can i say, enjoy the time off work, and have a good time, but lets not forget the true meaning of 'christmas', the pagan midwinter festival celebrating the turning of the year and the aproach of spring, and lets not allow its meaning to be diluted by the hijacking of it by the christian church as well as the modern commercialized spendfest. so, have a few beers, put your feet up, and dont forget to go back to work in jan!!
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Self flagellation with a bunch of mistletoe, whilst imbibing some fermenting beverage of ewe's milk, honey and psilocybin mushrooms to the chant of "Snooker loopy nuts are we.....!" at the 'Crucibal' or "18teeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" from the 'Lakeside' beer pit. Hurrumph!
Curmudgeonly thoughts, whilst imbibing fruit flavoured spring water and 400mg antibiotics with "mobile molars"! :-X
Slainte, Bill.
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and dont forget to go back to work in jan!!
......I wish.....got to go back in Dec....this year :'(
Jethro
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and as an avowed atheist with no religious beliefs whatsoever, can i say, enjoy the time off work, and have a good time, but lets not forget the true meaning of 'christmas', the pagan midwinter festival celebrating the turning of the year and the aproach of spring, and lets not allow its meaning to be diluted by the hijacking of it by the christian church as well as the modern commercialized spendfest. so, have a few beers, put your feet up, and dont forget to go back to work in jan!!
Well John,
all atheists are religious, atheism is a religious position as your comments provide ample evidence... :P
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Sorry? Atheism is a religious belief? In what way? If you suffer from an indoctrinated belief in a supernatural invisible man. Then that's your own mental health issue. My own opinion is that its all a selusion. There isn't a god whatever man made story you chose to believe regardless of its lack of evidence. I believe that you're born you live and you die. And that's it. That's not a religious belief. That's an observation of FACT. And that's all there is. Quite how you equate that to a religious statement is beyond me. Wishing other people a pleasant time amid an imppsed religiois beenfeastisnt itself a religious statement. I'm not christian, but I still enjoy a Sunday off. That doesn't mean I'm going to drop to my knees and play along with your fantasy. Its all bunkum
But feel free if it pleases you to believe in your god. I choose not yo because he doesn't exist. But I'm not about to try and persuade you that. After all. You've chosen to believe despite a total lack of evidence so I doubt that you will be willing to provide any. However. Feel free to believe it in your own head. The difference between us is that I'm not in any way bothered by your decision to believe in an impossibility. But you seem to feel that my failure to copy you is due to a similar disorder in my own mind.
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John,
I am not that bothered whether you believe one thing or another. I have not called your mental state into question. I have not asked you to play along with anything, fantasy or otherwise, nor am I about to enter into some pointless debate with you about evidence.
I am not interested in angry exchanges - it is your life, do with it as you see fit.
I do however, hope you are having a happy Christmas and I wish you a great new year!
Steff
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This isnt angry!. You accused me of following a religion, though you seem confusrd by the defenition! But to me religion is a belief in the supernatural. Which by the very nature of its completely unprovable and evidence free nature has to at the least be an aberation of the personality. After all, let's face ot, as a christian you believe in an invisible man in the sky who it is claimed is the supremely powerful being in the universe. Now if I went and claimed to be in communication with a being who only existed in my mind, I suspect that I would at least be assessed at the local mental health unit. Now if you find any of this wrong, please put your counter argument. Oh btw claiming ' faith' isn't an argument.
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This isnt angry!. You accused me of following a religion, though you seem confusrd by the defenition! But to me religion is a belief in the supernatural. Which by the very nature of its completely unprovable and evidence free nature has to at the least be an aberation of the personality. After all, let's face ot, as a christian you believe in an invisible man in the sky who it is claimed is the supremely powerful being in the universe. Now if I went and claimed to be in communication with a being who only existed in my mind, I suspect that I would at least be assessed at the local mental health unit. Now if you find any of this wrong, please put your counter argument. Oh btw claiming ' faith' isn't an argument.
Steff,
I know you are enjoying this, put your wooden spoon away and stop winding up the agnostics,
Furry
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This isnt angry!. You accused me of following a religion, though you seem confusrd by the defenition! But to me religion is a belief in the supernatural. Which by the very nature of its completely unprovable and evidence free nature has to at the least be an aberation of the personality. After all, let's face ot, as a christian you believe in an invisible man in the sky who it is claimed is the supremely powerful being in the universe. Now if I went and claimed to be in communication with a being who only existed in my mind, I suspect that I would at least be assessed at the local mental health unit. Now if you find any of this wrong, please put your counter argument. Oh btw claiming ' faith' isn't an argument.
Steff,
I know you are enjoying this, put your wooden spoon away and stop winding up the agnostics,
Furry
I thought Johns' an atheist not an agnostic. ::)
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I am not playing!!
This is so unbelievably tiresome!
Read what I wrote. I am not arguing with you as I am surplus to requirements, you seem quite capable to keeping it up on your own.
'Your reproof is something too round: I should be
angry with you, if the time were convenient.'
I am going, libel someone else!
I will not be posting any anything further.
have a great new year
Steffan
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This isnt angry!. You accused me of following a religion, though you seem confusrd by the defenition! But to me religion is a belief in the supernatural. Which by the very nature of its completely unprovable and evidence free nature has to at the least be an aberation of the personality. After all, let's face ot, as a christian you believe in an invisible man in the sky who it is claimed is the supremely powerful being in the universe. Now if I went and claimed to be in communication with a being who only existed in my mind, I suspect that I would at least be assessed at the local mental health unit. Now if you find any of this wrong, please put your counter argument. Oh btw claiming ' faith' isn't an argument.
Steff,
I know you are enjoying this, put your wooden spoon away and stop winding up the agnostics,
Furry
It would be difficult to wind up an agnostic, surely? They sit on the fence.
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Piles! :o
Very unpleasant! :-X
Bill.
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Misquote?
Very unpleasant! :-X
There goes another very long standing, valued by many, member of this forum, it seems we can no longer stick to the basis of the club, a shared love of single cylinder motorcycles. When one member cannot manage to say Merry Christmas to the rest without invoking a savage series of responses we don't deserve to survive as a club, we have become an open forum with minimum moderation and open membership. I know not the way forward from here.
Furry John
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Topic is now locked. As Furry John says this is a forum for bikes, if you want to argue the about anything else please find another more suitable forum.
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This isnt angry!. You accused me of following a religion, though you seem confusrd by the defenition! But to me religion is a belief in the supernatural. Which by the very nature of its completely unprovable and evidence free nature has to at the least be an aberation of the personality. After all, let's face ot, as a christian you believe in an invisible man in the sky who it is claimed is the supremely powerful being in the universe. Now if I went and claimed to be in communication with a being who only existed in my mind, I suspect that I would at least be assessed at the local mental health unit. Now if you find any of this wrong, please put your counter argument. Oh btw claiming ' faith' isn't an argument.
Steff,
I know you are enjoying this, put your wooden spoon away and stop winding up the agnostics,
Furry
i could say the same to you.
!!!!as you well know, an agnostic is someone who refuses to believe but doesnt rule it out, in short theyre open minded on the subject, and before the accusation of not being open minded is thrown out, i mean that they neither completely believe nor completely disbelieve. i on the other hand am no agnostic. i dont believe in yours or anyone elses god. this disbelief is because none of them do or ever have existed. now if you want to bandy words then continue, but if youre about to offer evidential proof for the existance of a god, then im all ears, lets see what has eluded every other religios scholar who has ever lived.
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Misquote?
Very unpleasant! :-X
There goes another very long standing, valued by many, member of this forum, it seems we can no longer stick to the basis of the club, a shared love of single cylinder motorcycles. When one member cannot manage to say Merry Christmas to the rest without invoking a savage series of responses we don't deserve to survive as a club, we have become an open forum with minimum moderation and open membership. I know not the way forward from here.
Furry John
now hang on a mo, please lets make sure we are on the same thread. someone came on and said merry xmas, it was followed by a number of lighthearted responses in the same vein. i then posted that as i wasnt a christian i want going to wish you one, but as it was a pagan festival that was hijacked by the christians, that you should have a good time and not forget to return to work in jan. now thats a true representation is it not?
THEN, the op couldnt let it rest that someone didnt share his beliefs, so he piped in with an accusation that i was in fact lying about being an atheist, but i was in fact a follower of the supernatural. is that not what happened? doesnt the thread on your computer have all the posts i can see. im not going to go into the whole 'he started it' argument, but nobody died, ive no problem with you believing whatever you want, but at the same time im not going to join you. belief in the supernatural doesnt really figure in my life, so ive not been back here since, tbh ive had much more productive things to do.
so, im not either bothered or upset, and will quite happily argue the toss over this or any other topic, its no big deal, its like arguing over whether star trek is real, plenty of hot air and supporters, but no facts. so i can only assume that ne of the religious folk on here is upset by this. if so, who is it whos complained? and if they have faith and truly believe in it, why would they want to silence any opposition?
finally, if there is to be no discussion except the topic of single cylinder bikes, then arent you going to be deleting the chatter, humour and rants sections?
oh, how come its not now locked?
quick final edit, steffan has emailed me and ive responded. ive no malice intended to him over this and i think he is of the same mind. we disagree fundamentally on a subject that has always polarised opinion. but you know what, were all grown ups here, nobody died, no harm was done, and a little heated debate and exchange of opinion never did any forum any harm, hell, nobody even got compared to hitler and the nazis, surely the benchmark of an internet forum discussion gone too far. happy new year to you, whatever crackpot beliefs you have, hell, im told some of you even think hondas are superior, so this place really does appeal to all sorts of wierd folk!!
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I thought I was also an atheist and anti-theist, but it turns out that my obsession with single cylinder bikes qualifies as worship!
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My mrs thinks that my obsession with motorcycles in general borders on the edge of perversion!!!!
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and as an avowed atheist with no religious beliefs whatsoever, can i say, enjoy the time off work, and have a good time, but lets not forget the true meaning of 'christmas', the pagan midwinter festival celebrating the turning of the year and the aproach of spring, and lets not allow its meaning to be diluted by the hijacking of it by the christian church as well as the modern commercialized spendfest. so, have a few beers, put your feet up, and dont forget to go back to work in jan!!
Well John,
all atheists are religious, atheism is a religious position as your comments provide ample evidence... :P
By the modern definition of the term, that seems to be the case.
But on a more philosophical level consider this. A person is there and along comes a theist and plants the idea of god into his/her brain (usually at a very young age). So that person is then forced to actively counter that idea (meme?) or not. Once the meme is in there you've no choice but to either believe it or decide to not believe it. The meme might actually dissipate and evaporate if that person wasn't continuously and repeatedly exposed to the same meme, who knows? And thinking about the jungle book scenario, would a person in that imaginary case automatically think of a god, as if it is intrinsic in our nature? If they don't are they classed as an atheist? Or would they have to first think of the idea and then decide to dismiss it, to be classed as an atheist?
My point is that is it not more complicated than to just say that because someone is an atheist then that is their religion?
I know for a fact that my own religion is constantly evolving as my brain slowly shakes off the indoctrination of youth. Like walking through treacle.
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I know for a fact that my own religion is constantly evolving...
I shall avoid any mention of monkeys at this point, tempting as it is and simply revel in the possibilities for mayhem the English language offers. ;D :-X ;D
Andy
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I know for a fact that my own religion is constantly evolving...
I shall avoid any mention of monkeys at this point, tempting as it is and simply revel in the possibilities for mayhem the English language offers. ;D :-X ;D
Andy
Primates.
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I think Mark is the Missing Link.
Ron.
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and as an avowed atheist with no religious beliefs whatsoever, can i say, enjoy the time off work, and have a good time, but lets not forget the true meaning of 'christmas', the pagan midwinter festival celebrating the turning of the year and the aproach of spring, and lets not allow its meaning to be diluted by the hijacking of it by the christian church as well as the modern commercialized spendfest. so, have a few beers, put your feet up, and dont forget to go back to work in jan!!
Well John,
all atheists are religious, atheism is a religious position as your comments provide ample evidence... :P
By the modern definition of the term, that seems to be the case.
But on a more philosophical level consider this. A person is there and along comes a theist and plants the idea of god into his/her brain (usually at a very young age). So that person is then forced to actively counter that idea (meme?) or not. Once the meme is in there you've no choice but to either believe it or decide to not believe it. The meme might actually dissipate and evaporate if that person wasn't continuously and repeatedly exposed to the same meme, who knows? And thinking about the jungle book scenario, would a person in that imaginary case automatically think of a god, as if it is intrinsic in our nature? If they don't are they classed as an atheist? Or would they have to first think of the idea and then decide to dismiss it, to be classed as an atheist?
My point is that is it not more complicated than to just say that because someone is an atheist then that is their religion?
I know for a fact that my own religion is constantly evolving as my brain slowly shakes off the indoctrination of youth. Like walking through treacle.
sorry i disagree. atheism is a refusal to believe in the supernatural. full stop. i dont care what creed your god is, by defenition they are all different versions of the same delusion. that there is some invisible omnipresent omnipotent supernatural being out there pulling the strings of life, taking credit for all the happy stuff and sidestepping the blame for all the bad stuff. i dont follow any of them. i dont believe in some invisible being conttrolling everything. full stop. now in what way is that a religion. i dont waste my time praying cursing or uttering incantations to someone in the sky. i dont blame the bad shit in life on some equally supernatural evil omnipresent being. i dont offer thanks for the good stuff to him/her/it/them either. i utter no entonements for luck good or bad, i dont believe in a heaven, nor a hell, nor for the catholics, a purgatory. in all honesty religious beliefs never ever figure in my life with the exception of when people who hold these beliefs either try to push their opinions onto me, or else take me to task for my refusal to believe what they do. now is that a religion to you, by your defenition? i dont lack compassion empathy or morality, but thats not due to any religion. its just normal human behaviour. now i dont really care if you hold these beliefs, honestly i dont, just so long as you keep your opinions to yourself. if other folks beliefs are put before me then ill point out my refusal to buy any of it.
now my original post was a tongue in cheek response to the original poster and the other replies. it was however seen as something of a provocation to be taken to task over. but its not really bothered me, how could it. was i supposed to have a lightning bolt revelation and become some sort of happy clappy follower of the faith?
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I would share much of your logic, but would never be so presumptions as to tell next-doors kids that the tooth fairy and ironing elf are't real. Richard Dawkins style crusades have so many features of a religion you can see what is bound to happen. Aiming for converts either way just lowers the tone IMHO, the religious equivalent of a "what oil" thread.
Andy
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Hell fire,
You lot still rabbit,in on about this. Go outside into your shed/garage n get messin with some machinery, you,ve all clearly just got to much spare time on ya hands. Ps not sure if it was the EASTER BUNNY RABBIT i was thinkin about. Pps happy new year to all in TC land.
Regards moto63
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Oops I even mentioned the word hell. So just to address the balance "heavens above" insert which ever version takes your fancy. Moto63
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I would share much of your logic, but would never be so presumptions as to tell next-doors kids that the tooth fairy and ironing elf are't real. Richard Dawkins style crusades have so many features of a religion you can see what is bound to happen. Aiming for converts either way just lowers the tone IMHO, the religious equivalent of a "what oil" thread.
Andy
I agree. Richard Dawkins seems to have turned defensive to the point of it becoming, as you say, a crusade. Shame. But then it's not such a free society as is made out. Not free from indoctrination at any rate. Isn't that what his crusade is about?
What about some of his earlier profound philosophical ideas or "slants" on nature? Such as the selfish gene (much misquoted and misunderstood, IMO), the counter argument to the "watchmaker", the extended phenotype and the meme?