Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: welland99 on July 20, 2013, 12:08:53 PM
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I'm planning my first oil change on my XBR 500 and wondered which oil others use? I couldn't find a thread on this, so thought it worthwhile to start one up.
In my last (125cc) bike, i used 10/40 semi synthetic car oil and had no problem at all. For the XBR, 10/40 semi seems to be a suitable grade, but I wonder if there is any reason why the car oil might cause any problems.
Has anybody else tried car oil in their XBR?
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I have always used castrol gtx 15w40 semi synthetic, it seems to work perfectly well
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I've only ever used 10w40 semi synthetic silkolene, or similar bike oil in any bike. I buy it in 25 litre drums as much cheaper. I once asked an experienced bike mechanic about why you can't use care oil in a bike, and he said it has different additives. saying that I use cheapest 20w50 car oil in my enfield. I would also be interested to hear others views on the suitability of car oils in bikes>
Cheers
Tim
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My old /7 beemer has only ever had the cheap 20/50 - but it has a dry clutch and requires a thicker oil than most modern bikes.
Some modern car oils verge on watery in consistency.
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An oil thread, wow ;)
On other boards I would claim I use Millers 10W50, but only if the bottle has a code starting with a 7 (as this means it was refined on a Tuesday) and fill left handed from a pyrex jug (to modify the aeration), but you lot know better ;D I am a survivor of the REOC Great Seven Years Oil Thread (1999-2008). :-X
Seriously, if you recognise the name (Castrol, Shell, Halfords, ASDA etc.) and it's a bike oil within the right temperature range go for it. How often you need to change it is way more interesting IMHO. I'm currently ignoring the Suzuki semi-synth every 3500 miles/oil filter every three changes rubbish and giving the Wee fully synthetic and a filter every 6000. Oil analysed in the US shows a 10000 interval would be fine, Suzuki are just selling more oil to the owners who don't ride 2 miles twenty times a day. Over short changes do more harm than good, the time the engine runs with low pressure does as much harm as a few miles with old oil.
Andy
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At least we won't be seeing a rerun of the Flame Wars over two stroke oils usually found on MZ forums.
Perhaps we could have a run of Royal Oilfield jokes instead ?
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I've only ever used 10w40 semi synthetic silkolene,
Cheers
Tim
I used Silkolene semi-synthetic in my XBR race bike without any problems, despite it running much hotter. Modern car oils can cause problems with wet clutches because of the friction reducing additives.
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Hello everyone,
Thanks for all your replies :). As ever, a mix of opinions. I have much info to report now...
1) I asked my nearest Honda dealer, who recommended 10/40 semi synth, and insisted that i should buy their stock (Castrol, I think), because any other brand was rubbish. Needless to say that i politely declined their kind offer as they were far more expensive than anyone else. :(
2) Other local bike indies all seemed to stock Rock oil, so i did some research....
3) Rang rock oil for some advice as they have many different specs, including two different 10/40 semis :o. They couldn't really tell me the difference between them, but recommended that i buy the more expensive..... :(
So decided to buy 4l of Rockoil 10/40 semi JASO MA for £19.50 and felt quite pleased. ;)
Then, remembered that my Dad had an XBR for 10 years in the '90s and asked him what he used. He said that he always used 10/40 semi car oil and had no problems, and he pointed out that the XBR handbook did not recommend any special oil for wet clutches, merely that the oil should meet the SE / SF spec.
Heck, now i was feeling conned by all the dealers who had told me to buy special bike oil (Honda especially), because all the car oils i have ever used exceed the SE / SF spec and are a lot cheaper.
So, in the end, I decided to use exactly half the Rock oil, and I topped up with 10/40 semi car oil. ::)
to be continued.........
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So the oil change went fine last weekend, until a few days later..... :(
Been to work on it thrice since the oil change, 6 journeys in total (15 miles each). On two occasions the bike has made a smoke screen from the exhaust that lasted about a minute, just after starting. :o :o :o :'(
Never had any smoke from the exhaust before the oil change.
I've kept an eye in the mirrors for smoke and there is none when riding, so just this short-lived problem that sometimes occurs after starting. I'm thinking that oil must be getting in the cyclinder when it's not running, and it must be going down the valve guide(s). But i'm baffled about why it would be intermittent.
Has anybody else seen this behaviour, or would like to hazard a guess to the cause (or remedy)
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I've always used ordinary 10/40 mineral oil and changed it every 1,000 miles or so. The change interval is way more important than the brand, except it's vital to avoid oils with friction inhibitors, or full synthetics, because they cause clutch slip. Thumpers put pulses of torque through the clutch and anything that sticks to the plates will encourage slippage and wear.
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I'm still getting the intermittent smoke screen for a minute after startup. So, thinking of a thicker (than 10w40) oil next time.
Is anybody out there using 15w50 or 20w50 in their XBR?
What's the cheapest place to get an oil filter and an o ring for the filter cover?
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The British bikes used to do this when the pressure valve started passing, allowing oil from the tank to pass into the sump overnight (or over week). Wet sumping, if you will.
Not sure if, or indeed how, the xbr can do this, given the "up and over" route of the oil pipes. But the symptoms are exactly what you have given.
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What's the cheapest place to get an oil filter and an o ring for the filter cover?
You can get a genuine one from Dave Silver for £4.25 + £2.25 for the 'O'ring - I don't like cheap pattern filters since I nearly blew a BMW engine on a 500 mile cheap filter!
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I keep threatening to use 10/40 car oil, but when it comes to it, I chicken out :-\
So I now buy Motul 10/40 semi synth bike oil in 20 litre drum from the local distributer who supplies the bike shops, at £84, so £4.40 per litre.
I would still like to use car oil cause I'm a tight git, but still not sure :-\
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I would always use a motorcycle oil in a motorcycle where the engine and gearbox use the same oil, my theory being down to different additives, zinc? etc where the bike gearbox will cut up a car oil very quickly ending its life. In a motorcycle which has a separate gearbox I would not be so fussy.
I recommend these guys and at this price for 20l everyones a winner.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Bike-Engine-Oil-10w-40-Semi-Synthetic-CCMC-G4-API-SG-SH-SJ-20-litre-/370750095918?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item56526d822e
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Recently on the Dragon run my 660 Tenere clutch started to slip. I knew that the clutch cable was correctly adjusted and the lever was free to move. The only thing that could be wrong was the oil as I had a mechanic change it. When I got back home I asked him what he had used, he told me that he used "something like 5/20 fully synthetic", I couldn't believe it. That was the problem as my previous Tenere had at least 30K on the clock and I had given it some stick trail riding and no problems. So it cost me clutch gasket, new set of fibre PLATES, and an oil filter and some proper 10/40 semi-synthetic Motul oil. All is good now. I have recently bought a Honda CB250RS, nearly 30 yrs old and the manual states 10/40 semi synthetic. QED
Cheers Steve
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The XBR handbook says very little about choice of oil.
Grade: no specific grade is recommended. the temperature chart shows that above 0C, the following are all suitable: 10W30, 10W40, 15W40, 15W50, 20W40, 20W50.
Service standard: meet or exceed SE or SF. I presume that SG exceeds SF, so is OK.
No mention of semi synthetic or mineral: so both are OK
No mention of absence of friction modifiers or bike specific oil: Car oil seems to be OK.
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I have only ever used semi 10/40 bike oil in any jap bike. Using anything else will cause problems I think. The only thing I wasn't sure about was why I couldn't use car oil, but having read other posts on this thread, I will stick with bike oil and change every 1 to 1.5k on the XBR.
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Dont use car oil ! Different additives in car oil dont agree with a wet clutch and will make it slip !
Honda used to recommend 10/40 but now use 10/30 for all their machines.
Jethro
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There's always Wikipedia (other sites are available ;D)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
A nice bedtime read. Good luck!
I'm still intrigued with the smoky start. The idea of going higher viscosity on start up doesn't seem right to me. Manufacturers have spent decades trying to get the oil viscosity LOWER during start up.
If it is smoking on start up but definitely not using oil when warm I'd suspect another problem other than the oil.
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I`ve always used oil designed for motorcycle use mainly due to the wet clutch. Oils are designed for use in petrol and diesel engines/gearboxes/axles/2 strokes/cars/bikes/lawnmowers and the list goes on. Many variations but IMHO as I know much less than the manufacturers I`d go with what is says on the tin !!
As for the smokey engine thing my XBR did this on a few occasions but always when going down hill when first started. It did produce an alarming amount of smoke but once cleared ran as normal. Never got to the bottom of it !!
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NEVER NEVER use fully synthetic oil with a wet multi plate clutch, I will say no more [unless asked]
look here http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=42671
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......Never got to the bottom of it !!
Damn. I was so looking forward to a happy ending.
Your avatar name thingy. Is that per night or per week?
Just curious. ;)
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Smoky starting after it has been stood for a while is often caused by leaking valve seals. On an XBR it could also be caused by oil syphoning into the sump.