Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: andy230 on November 11, 2012, 09:15:54 PM
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Hello all,
Not been posting for a while, but still lurking :D No singles news really!
The 1991 DR650 has been ace and utterly dependable for my boy's first year of life, MOT time in a month. Lets give it a clean up, and a once over.
:o Wait! Whats that "clak clak clak" Must be the tappets, when did you last check em? Must be, oooh, 2 years? 3?? ::)
Anyway, tappet clearances were predictably huge. But still she "clak clak clak's" :-\
Oh-oh. Sparkly oil... :'(
I dropped by Burwins, great guys, MOT men, MZ racers, for an opinion.
They reckon a bearing at either end of the rod is letting go, thus the "clak" is the piston clipping the exhaust valve(s).
So they said "don't waste yer cash on an MOT! And use the 30 quid for the skorp MOT", tho did also say that if its still alive in month they'll gladly test it (and it looked like it would pass)! If I get the winter out of it before it expires, I'd be delighted. (It does 15 miles per day, central london.) And then put the Skorp on the road come Spring.
So, while it is still ridable, running, taxed (till July) and MOT'd does anyone want it?
To be honest, I cant justify rebuilding the motor. The cases will need splitting, then every bearing. And the chains. And surely a piston, rings, bore, valves, yada yada. Gaskets are even dear!
And its lumpy as f'ck and not very well carburetted anyway (US import, modified to remove evaporation control rubbish. Carb tired? Or just not set up very well?). But utterly reliable. Always starts. Always. Stops as well as DR's do.
In the 5 or 6 years I've had it:
New header pipe 3 years ago, new s/s micron can when I got it
Rebuilt forks 18 months ago Genuine $uzuki $eals
New C&S 1 year ago
New tyres 1 y ago
New shock 2 years ago (Hagon, adjustable, not cheap, covered in Waxoyl)
Heated grips (likely dodge by now?)
New clutch (metal and friction plates) 2.5 years ago. Genuine $$$$uzuki
EBC pads & rebuilt brakes about 18 months ago. More expensive $uzuki piston seals. I seem to remember I got stainless pistons too... Stainless front line.
New rear spindle and wheel bearings and hub bearings 18 months ago
There must be more. I have spent too much money on it, but this one is probably "goodbye old frend".
Immediately prior to my purchase, it had a new front disk.
Tho admittedly, I do paint over a crack in the frame every year, on the drive side, just near the side stand mount. The MOT man does a very good Albert Speer impression, and claims to be ignorant of anything amiss under his jurisdiction.
So does anyone have a DR650 they need a parts bike for? The plastic is all good, the tank is good, but has nicks in the paint, and the decals have worn thru. But there is no filler, no dents, and I think no rust.. Seat is good apart from one nick.
Kickstart only. So the battery is predictably gubbed!!
ALternatively, I'd love a 650 (or even DR600) kickstart motor, which is known good. But I think that is most unlikely!! :'( Anyone??
So in the absence of anyone taking it away, I'll break it on ebay as there is good stuff on it. And I'll keep the Hagon shock. But 1 year old son = not a lot of time to break a bike for which parts are not in very high demand, so I am not that keen...
I'm not looking for a lot of cash, is anyone interested? If really pushed, I could even deliver within M25, but cannot guarentee that I'll get there!!
There are some piccies on the site, and plenty of threads about shocks, brakes, etc. Ideas, laughter, commiseration on this thread please! I hope this finds all well and happy. Its been a good year for me, with the kid and all that. Time's abit tight tho for tinkering with bikes and silly plastic cars. So I haven't been. I think I'll be pressing the Skorp back into service quite soon.
a
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Hi Andy,
missed your individual tartan humour
Ian
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before you do anything take the rocker cover off. dr650 motors have an achilles heel, loud and sudden tapping from the head is almost always the exhaust cam follower that has worn through its hardening. the cams can go fecked too. try ringing the breakers, they will have everything but the cam and followers. im told that phil joy of joy cams can build them up with stellite weld and re face them both the cam and the followers. i suspect that your garage was perhaps lifting your leg by telling you that. check the cam first.
and in future you need to be anal about the valve clearances and oil changes.
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Aye Andy,
Pleased to read of progress all round and not surprised to read that the 'loon' is occupying time over the bike and the 4 wheel plastic pig.
As for john's comment "and in future you need to be anal about the valve clearances and oil changes." !! ??? I believe you are of the school of 'Thrash'em 'til they drop!', many good scratchers are. However, he has a point! ;) Just make sure you don't have an "Armaggedon!" moment like this one! (Link below ;D This requires parental authorisation!!!! 12yrs ::) )
"Armageddon!" (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/audio/play/386708/)
Good health, Bill.
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What is of perennial concern on this site, and Bill this is a classic example, is what one is searching on the internet to find this sort of material. :o
Andy, I am sorry to hear about the DR, hope you get it sorted out and best of luck with the Skorpion. A shortage of time and a preponderance of failed main seals will see me using my Skorpion this winter in place of the 2Ts :-\
Steff
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dr650 motors have an achilles heel, loud and sudden tapping from the head is almost always the exhaust cam follower that has worn through its hardening......
Very interesting John, thank you very much for that. I didn't know that, there is not a lot of interweb info about the foibles of the DR, that there is for (for example) the skorp, or the SRX. Although maybe its just harder to find given the very long production run of the DR and its many variants. Is it still going???
So maybe its not "its time" just yet...
(Time to MOT the Skorp tho!)
I will take your advice and remove the rocker box. Will let you know what I see. A "quick keek" inside with the inspection covers off did show a rather scuffed lobe on the cam, but I was not really too surprised at that...
To be honest, I wasn't that sure about the piston clipping the valve- I wouldn't have thought it would run (and it does, as well as it ever did). Just noisy.
I will have a look around for servicable old ones, but will also phone Phil Joy. Cost may be prohibitive tho.... The bike is worth spending a few hundred quid on it, but I have to be realistic.
I am thinking I should get both lobes and both followers done??
Will let you know what I find out.
Thanks all, nice to hear from you guys!
a
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Good luck Andy, I hope it's fixable.
Mark
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havin the cam and followers both refaced will be the best bet, much cheaper than buying new. im told its only the 650dr that is affected like this. if there is any wear at all on the followers or ny scoring on the cam, then take them out and get them done. they'll be better than new then.
i was at my mates house on sat, he has a dr650 with only 10 thousand miles on it, and after running low on oil on a run out, no running out, just running low, he got the clattery top end, and thats what it was. he showed me the followers, theyre pretty worn, thas how i found out about phil joy. if you bell him he will probably say he has a cam on its way from scotland for refacing.
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Hello guys
Thanks for the advice, and the hellos!
I will let you know how it pans out. I will probably get it done, but get the skorp back on the go in the mean time.
As an aside, here is me trying to show the boy the joy of the feeling that motorcycling gives you!
(look at that happy face!) -->
http://www.flickr.com/photos/researchphotography/7172599379/in/set-72157630032739293
Cheers guys, best wishes to all.
andy
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Great Pic !
What was he like after being thrown around like a rag doll ?
Did the next pic show the lad hurling into your face ?
Nice milky puke !
Jethro ;D
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Aye Andy,
Good to see the wee fella in good form. Hope all goes well with the rebuild.
Steffan Apologies if 'Armageddon' caused a disturbance. I received the link from a member of the keepering fraternity up here! ::) Long hours dancing with midges, clegs and rolling in peat bogs, covered in ice and snow, a long way from anywhere, can have an adverse effect on the humour. ??? The mind pictures of the gerbil being expelled at speed, are of 'Tom & Jerry' quality! ;D
Good health to you all, Bill.
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As an aside, here is me trying to show the boy the joy of the feeling that motorcycling gives you!
(look at that happy face!) -->
http://www.flickr.com/photos/researchphotography/7172599379/in/set-72157630032739293
Played that game with my son... but sadly, our house had low ceilings! Never really bonded after that :'(
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As an aside, here is me trying to show the boy the joy of the feeling that motorcycling gives you!
(look at that happy face!) -->
http://www.flickr.com/photos/researchphotography/7172599379/in/set-72157630032739293
Played that game with my son... but sadly, our house had low ceilings! Never really bonded after that :'(
Use unibond, geat stuff, he'd still be stuck there now.
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Played that game with my son... but sadly, our house had low ceilings! Never really bonded after that :'(
Yeah, I know what you mean!! Not my gaff, I was just showing off to mates about what an adventurous chap my son was.
I did once scud his cranium off a particularly low ceiling, but was lifting him out his pram, not launching him skywards. Genuine accident!
They love all that being hurtled around, dont that? Its nuts! I am sure the social workers would be less impressed!
Sadly no footage exists of the delight at him being put in a shopping bag and being hurled around and round at a vast rate of knots. He loved that. My wife asked me to stop after she noticed the handles coming off the bag!!! ;D
First day of nursery today. Its probably for the best...!
Will post photos of the cam and followers when I get it apart. (The DR, not the baby)
a
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Will post photos of the cam and followers when I get it apart. (The DR, not the baby)
a
Are you sure about that? ;)
Pass the Whitworth, the ES2 needs the tappets 'doing' as well!
Slainte, Bill.
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Andy, for reference I had Phil Joy reface and regrind the cam in my DR600 which was actually one he had made many moons ago as a race cam. Cost was very reasonable from memory.
I bought new rockers as the originals were fubar.
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Hi,
I have not yet had a chance to look inside the rocker box. Hopefully sunday.
Before contacting Phil Joy, I wanted to have as much info as possible re. my own, and other options.
To that end, Mr. Michio Suzuki Esq. wants (inc vat)
Cam: £173
Rockers: £62.50 and £67.19
Its probably about what I expected to be honest.
I will give him a ring next week.
Cheers
a
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Cam and rockers removed.
Initial impressions- rockers gubbed, especially exhaust. A very weird profile on them!! Like a double inverse sigmoid!
As johnr suggested, it looks like the followers' case hardening has gone thru. It has started to destory the cam too. Again ex is the worse. A noticably different profile where the follower contacts, compared to the unworn edge...
I will see how much Phil Joy wants to sort em.
Cheers all,
a
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Hello!!
I sent phil joy my cam at the end on November.
A few phone calls thru December and January. Polite ones, just asking how he was getting on... Slowly slowly, catchey monkey...
He called me today!
Cam ground, lobes and the base circle.
The rockers were re-stellited, and were built up a corresponding amount as removal from the base circle to retain geometry. Then dressed back to profile.
Postage when the cheque clears.
£105. Very resonable I thought. Would have been more if I had insisted on building up the cam and grinding back. However, he tells me the cam is hard all the way thru; the rockers are not. Otherwise it would have needed welding up, not just grinding back. Anyway, the bike is an old nail, I just want to get a bit more life out of it!
About a third the price of new replacements. I am very pleased. Nice guy too with I suspect rather more work than he has time!!
WIll let you know how it goes when I get it back together. (skorp is pretty orrible in winter!)
cheers
a
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Aye Andy,
Skorp gearing is not good for 'plonking' and you need a plonker on skitey roads. Main reason for getting rid of ours, stroke to short and gearbox ratios. Tried changing sprockets, BUT! ??? :(
Besides, the lady what owned it, just preferred the 'BROS'! ::)
When you have the bits back, please tell us how they appear, fit and perform. May have a 'little' job for Phil.
Slainte, Bill.
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Oh! Didn't know you had sold the MZ, Bill...!
Yes, it is a wee bit revvy... mine is better with the new sprockets admittedly but I know what you mean.
He has said the cam is not absolutley perfect, and to be so it would have needed another 10 thou. He said there is a slight mark left on one lobe but that would have meant a whole lot more metal off, and then couldn't have taken that off the base circle. As the cam is hard all the way thru, he said that it will not make a difference given the area of rubbing surface.
I am ok with it. It is after all an EOLV (end of life vehicle).
Will let you know what its like tho bill. Is it for the Duke? He may need you to supply the data... Tho if its common you will probably be ok... However, do not expect an instant service, but good guys tend to be a bit like that, no?
His price is pretty keen I thought.
a
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Hello!
Back to this old thread!!
I got the DR650 MOT'd yesterday. Runs much quieter (mechanically) than ever before in my ownership. Top end has always been noisy- that tells me something.
I got quite a lot of genuine suzuki parts (mostly gaskets, o-rings etc for the top end) which should really be replaced when putting the top back together. I got it finshed a while ago , but didn't want to post till I knew all was well...!
When I got the cam back from Phil Joy (£105 for cam grind, and build up rockers to suit (the same amount as was removed from the lobe and base circle), the receipt said "DR350 cam grind, and rockers to suit"....
So I rather hoped he hadn't put a DR350 grind on my DR650 cam....!!
However all is good now. Thanks for the advice, especially johnr & shedbrewed re. Phil Joy.
So hopefully I can get a few more thousand miles before asking you all what to do, showld I scrap it, then throwing a big chunk of cash at it for bits, taking an age to fit them, and then being surprised when the old clunker gets another MOT!
Cheers for now
a
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and THAT gentlemen is what we call a happy ending!!
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Got to love a happy ending!
Know what you mean about children eating workshop time though, Smudge minor is just over 14months and time in the garage is what I can grab between his bedtime, my bedtime and around any chores needing doing... Still good though B-)
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Aye Andy,
All sounds positive, so give Joy a call?
Glad to read that you are all chipper.
My regards, Bill.
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Hi Bill,
To be honest, the guys in the bike shop I use for my MOTs here always refer to his "oh-oh! Chocolate camshafts!!" but I was quite happy with his work. He was a bit slow, but knew his onions. And the profile was spot on. So maybe their views are not accurate, outdated, biased, hearsay, etc.
I suppose time and mileage will be the real indicator, but I suspect his work will outlive my steed. And for the cash, I can't fault it.
Give him a ring. He gets my recommendation for getting me out of a problem, for very reasonable money. And he is very straight (ie could have gotten more money and work from me, but I suspect he doesn't need any more work!
Smudge- agreed. Workshop time- not a lot of that now eh?!! Tho the hilarity of an 18 month old makes up for lack of tinkering.
Cheers all
a