Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: Bill Rutter on February 06, 2007, 07:53:04 PM
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I've decided that i's about time I got myself a bit fitter so I've been thinking of cycling a fair bit (anything between 6 & 12 miles) of my commute to work and pick up the train from nearer Gatwick. The thing is I only have a folding bike at the moment and, good as it is, it isn't really up to this sort of work. So, as I know a few on this forum are keen cyclists, what would you recommend? I'm of the mind that a Hybrid would be best (I even thought of a single-speeder at one point) and have a budget of around £500. Do you have any patrticular models in mind? I do veer towards the likes of Trek and Specialized.
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i worked in cycle shops for years. a road bike (drop handlebars) is best for road work, more speed for your effort. However there are virtually no smooth roads in this country, and the ability to hop up kerbs and cut through parks is very useful.
I'd go for a hybrid. Like you said both trek and specialized are good bikes as are Marin. Ridgeback do some good hybrids from £300ish. Steer clear of anything under £300 if using it every day, you'll be forever straightening crap wheels and hauling a whole load of metal about.
Also avoid Raleigh. They're living on a reputation formed over 20 years ago.
Cannondale are expensive for what you get but all their bikes are built in USA, not taiwan (or at least they were when i last worked in bike shops). Ride one and you'll feel the quality. Don't ask me why but they just seem to be quicker and more responsive, really good to ride.
Lets face it, on a bleak february morning a £500 bike you don't want to ride is pointless. I've had 2 cannondales and they were leagues ahead of anything else in terms of riding pleasure.
bullet350.
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I could go on about this for hours, forgive me if we get into sucking eggs territory.
What about Giant? they seem to produce some very well-specced hybrids. Here most bikes get sold without guards and racks, whereas in other European markets (esp. Germany) they come with everything attached. Giant are one of the few manufacturers to provide well-kitted bikes to the British market.
Marin make lovely bikes, but you're paying for a name, as you will with most of the 'serious' manufacturers. I've seen some lovely Specialized hybrids so they are worth considering.
Probably the cheapest option is to buy a mountain bike and then fit it with narrower road or dual tyres (if a dual tyre make sure it's got a solid central strip, this reduces rolling resistance). The problem there is that the bike salesperson may try to sell you a size more suited to hacking off-road although a larger frame size would be better for you. Another problem might be the gear ratios.
I liked Trek bikes, but they do make some budget models too that aren't great.
If I was in the market for a new bike I'd go for light weight over fancy features and I'd look for brand names you 've heard of on the components (Grip Shift, Shimano, richey or Mavic rims, etc.). I'd also go for disk brakes (or at least one up front) because they are effing brill, with no wet lag and they still work (i.e. get you home) if you buckle a wheel. Even cable operated disks are better than cantis.
My qualifications for giving this advice include commuting a 40 mile round trip three days a week on a bike.
My current mount is a 'Team' Marin Tange Prestige steel MTB frame with drop handlebars, 1.5 slicks, LX groupset and my faithful Brooks saddle. I built this up from bits and it cost probably half as much again as if I'd bought a complete bike... Doh!
Cheers
GC
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I use the push iron every now and again , which is exactly why I bought a pair of rubbish halfords own brand mountain bikes off a mate for £20. I spent double that again fitting decent saddles and tyres. They work.
What pushed me down this route is the **** salesman try and sell you in the shops. I have 10 gears (Shimano de-railer things) and they are a PITA. I can ride any hill in 20 miles of here (this is Yorkshire) in the top 5. Why do I want 15 gears, 3 (or 1) would do. The rubber block and cable brakes work just fine. I mangaged without suspension for 25 years so why do I need the weight and maintenance now? Why would I want to spend £100 a year on insurance when I didn't want to spend that much on the bike. I thought motorbike dealers sold some impractical rubbish until I met the bicycle lot!
Personally I'd have gone for one of those bikes the Dutch use, the ones that look like they are cast out of one lump. However as it's much easier to buy the stuff people buy new and shiney and then get bored of. To get a proper road bike round here I'd need to travel to York where they seem to have some source for the Dutch thingys, which given it's a cycle city probably says a lot.
Andy
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And I have still have my Moulton
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I bought a Ridgeback bicycle last year and I find it fine for what I want. It's one of those hybrid types without any suspension. It also came with mudguards and a backrack as standard.
The very nice gentleman in the cycle shop was insisting I didn't know what I wanted and was trying to sell me bike for £50 more without the rack and mudguards. I pointed out to him that I really needed them as I will be carrying lots of paperwork with me and riding in the wet. He got excited and said I could buy those as extras!! I bought the cheaper one with the bits fitted as standard.
I would happily buy another Ridgeback though I cant remember the model I have got!!
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Why do I want 15 gears, 3 (or 1) would do.
15 gears? man that's so 80s! :-)
These days you can buy some very nice cheapish 7 speed hub gears (or a 14 speed Rohloff item for £800!). These are ideal for most (city) riders.
If you have a regular route and the bike will be used for that (i.e. commuting) then you could easily either drop two of the front rings and the front derraileur (you might have to faff around with the size of the remaining ring for optimum ratios) or you could fit a hub gear with a single front ring.
I built a nice bike for my mate who lives in Hackney and works in the City, it had a single front ring and a close ratio rear block, it was absolutely superb on his regular route, but would have been a nightmare on our (then) regular cycle touring holidays. Lots of ratios are great for a wide variety of conditions or when you are swapping between carrying loads and riding unencumbered.
You're right, the Dutch have some lovely utility bikes to choose from, here it's all fashion and technology.
However, despite all this luddite talk, I have a beautiful 1950s Raleigh here, rod brakes, Brooks saddle, dynamo, etc. It's a pain the arse around town, it weighs a ton, the geometry is too lazy and the brakes are shite. Looks a million dollars, but I only use it to go to the shops. Talking of which, does anyone have an old (50s, 60s) saddlebag that they no longer need? I had a nice one fitted but it rotted away.
GC
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You're right, the Dutch have some lovely utility bikes to choose from, here it's all fashion and technology.
True but the Dutch terrain lends itself very well to simple (but quality) bikes.
As for fashion I used to laugh at disc brakes on Mountain Bikes untill my rims wore out and left me struggling to stop on descents. It depends to a large extent what your doing with the bike. That said the MTB community is ridiculously fashion conscious, the prices of some components in no way reflect the manufacturing cost or represent good value for money.
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What would I do...
Well I would take my trusty Brooks saddle and a set of pedals to "Climb on Bikes" in Ludlow and spend a day riding their bikes getting one to fit etc - all knowing that if it is the wrong one they will buy it back within about 6 weeks, and give you the money back on any bits you swap out - mind he does play badminton with my sis (should use a shuttlecock!)
Apart from that - I have never bought a bike worth the money - and I got Ill before I went to Ludlow for my triathalon bike - so I never bought that either.
But a good saddle is worth such a lot, and to my mind, whilst there are many more 'modern' saddles about, a Brooks broken to your bum is worth its not inconsiderable weight. Mind they do a titanium one too...
R
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Sorry, but I think a few here are suffering from bike snobbery, and unless your entering competition buy any old bike from the free adds and save your money. When the shitty steel wheels start dropping spokes, replace it with a nice ally one. If the saddle a bit lumpy change it for a better one etc etc etc.
Last bike I had ( and commuted 20 miles a day for 5 years on) cost me £15 ! It got a new saddle, clip style peddles, and a sealed unit bottom bracket and that was that, apart from consumables (tyres, cables etc)
My current ride was a freebie a mate was chucking out and cost only new cables and a new chain to get on the road. Bloody great bike :-) and I've used it to come to work on.
If all you want to do is get to work, keep it simple, keep it cheap, get second hand. After all, some idiot will be selling off last years dream bike soon enough when the latest colour sceme comes out.
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Sorry, but I think a few here are suffering from bike snobbery, and unless your entering competition buy any old bike from the free adds and save your money.
Pat if your talking about a bike for commuting (the original reason for this thread) I would agree with you.
However if your talking about MTB's the thay take a real battering and its worth investing in half decent kit otherwise you spend all your time repairing it. Mine cost me £400 and lasted me three years after which it needs new wheels/tyres/headset/brakes/chainset/chain/derailleur.
That said some people spend ridiculous amounts on parts (£200 for a saddle) for very little benefit other than a label and a few grammes in weight
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You can get excellent kit 2nd hand - but also some real rubbish - cycling on anything other than the flat on some gaspipe framed clunker is no fun and takes too much time and pain. A half decent second hand bike however - and they are still cheap. However if you end up replacing all end of parts they become expensive.
My uncle swore by (as opposed to at) his touring trike - could carry loads more stuff on it than his bike - but would get held up in traffic.
If you are somewhere like Cambridge an old clunker would be great, but cross High Wycombe or go up one of the valleys on one and you will bin it post haste
R
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The thing is my company is promising to get involved in this "Ride2Work" scheme promoted by the G'ment whereby you buy a bike and with savings in IncomeTax and N.I. contributions you can save about 47% on a new bike and accessories. With this in mind I have been visiting a few dealers and scouring the web up to the point where can even work out gear inches etc! So that £500 budget, in reality, is more like a real-world cost of around £285. Blimey, I paid more than that for a Ridgeback 602 mtb 20 years ago.I think I have it down to a choice between a Trek 7.5 FX Disc and a Specialized Sirrus. I think both can take racks and mudguards. A fixed or SS bike I think would be a bit extreme for me, but I'd still like a go of a Langster.
Most of the dealers I have been to seem to be staffed by Halford rejects of the "er, um, I dunno mate" type.
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Pat and I have had this clunker versus quality argument many a time. I think he sees all expensive bikes as fashion items, but once you have ridden a certain level of componentry then you begin to see some of the 'gadgets' as useful and efficient.
Take STI levers for drop handlebars. These are the combined brake and gear levers that enable you to change gear on your road bike without taking your hands off the bars. This is invaluable in competition, especially on ascents where a delayed change (try taking one hand off on a full effort uphill hairpin) can mean yards lost. On the road you would assume that such a feature is meaningless, but if ever there's a time when this is useful, it's when you're riding in traffic on our chaotic roads.
Commuting takes many forms; if you ride along dedicated cycle trails with only short road stretches then ride anything, if you want to ride in rush hour traffic then you owe it to yourself and family to ride with good modern brakes (Cantis or disks - good, single pivot callipers - very bad) and easy gear controls.
Steve's dead right about off-road kit, but even my commutes used to destroy my wheels on a regular basis until I uprated to top of the range rims. The same was true of the 'groupset' (the combined components of the tranmission). there's no need to go mad, but never go cheap. If you know your bikes you will understand when I say that I was an LX man, sometimes using XT, but never less than LX and never XTR.
Now... as for my recumbent, that was luuuurvely and knocked spots of all those boring old 'uprights' :-)
GC
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Went to the skip before Xmas, opens at 08:30 so was waiting for the heavy gear to finish moving skips and the gates to be opened. Mr Pedals arrives with the lycra gear etc. and awaits the opening of the gates. Gates opened, Mr Pedals rides up to a skip and picks up bike and is then hailed by an attendant. Hands bike to the attendant, walks out and hops in the X5 with rack and bikes on the back which had just drawn up!
A polite enquiry to the attendant revealed ~£2K of bike in lovely nick. "Felt like something new", was the reason for dumping it!
As a an 8 year old loon hours were spent on the local dump gleaning bike bits to re-furbish, assemble and then sell for pocket money. That's why I like single cylinder motorcycles, it progressed to Bantams at 12, then C50's, 90's, C15's and Plumstead 250CSR's at 16.
Personally, I have an old Dawes 23" Reynolds 500 tube frame 'Horizon', Shimano 10 speed, 'Brookes' saddle and drops with mouse nibbled foam grips, alloy guards and a touring carrier. Bought for £15 10 years ago, to save it from the skip syndrome as it was being replaced by a multipurpose thingy with 18 gears etc.
The UK tax breaks will only keep the Chinese employed!!! Herumph!!
Bill
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Listen guys, this thread was started by Bill wanting to know about a bike to cover 6-12 miles to 'get a bit fitter' That is where my comment is aimed. All this TX LX ZFBX??? nonsance is sort of irrelevant. Comfy seat, selection of gears, larger tyres at lowish PSI and get on with it. Index gearing and the like is soooo over rated for your bread and butter bike. You'll spend more time tuning it every week than riding! Friction shift and adjust the cable when the lever travels too far back. Simple and sorted.
And if the aim is to 'get fit' what better way than pushing 2-3 extra kg of frame about??? All thats required is more journey time and less money. When Bill is Armstrongesque that's a different matter. Looking to shave 3/10ths of a second off his 'climb past the post box' section, by all means invest in a carbon fibre drinks bottle, but in the mean time don't worry about it, just do it (as nike would say)
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...., by all means invest in a carbon fibre drinks bottle, but in the mean time don't worry about it, just do it (as nike would say)
Sports bike talk on the TC forum? Whatever next :-))
Personally I'm going to drill holes all over the push iron, put foam in the Bonnevilles tank to prevent me carrying over 2 pints of petrol and get some stick on carbon fibre to reduce the MZ's weight. (BTW, why do they charge postage on that stuff?)
Andy
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All this TX LX ZFBX??? nonsance is sort of irrelevant. Comfy seat, selection of gears, larger tyres at lowish PSI and get on with it. Index gearing and the like is soooo over rated for your bread and butter bike.
There is also an argument that if a bike is easy to ride then your more inclined to get on it. No good having a cheap dog-eared bike if you hate riding it and would rather get in a car. I think there is a balance to be made between cost and useability, in the same way we choose to ride thumpers rather than the latest sports bikes.
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Index gearing and the like is soooo over rated for your bread and butter bike. You'll spend more time tuning it every week than riding!
every week? you must have had some rubbish index gears if that's the case. Probably didn't spend enough on them :-)
Even with racing I'd be looking at my shifter adjustment every couple of months at most. Once a Bowden cable has done its initial stretching (first couple of weeks) then it's fairly static right up until the point it frays and breaks (which could be years). Adjustment is made with a small knurled knob in exactly the same way you adjust your clutch cable.
The bits that wear are the big lumpy mechanical bits: chain, sprocket, derrailleurs. That's true of whatever brand or level you fit.
Steve has a point, if a bike is nice to ride, you will ride it. Why make what is already a strenous exercise any more unpleasant?
My mention of Shimano hierachy labels is easy to explain. Anything below LX is for sunday riders and not robust enough for hard or prolonged use (IMHO). XT is better made and lighter than LX, but more expensive. The performance is fantastic though. XTR is full-on pro level, very light, very nice, but not worth the money for commuting or leisure riding. Given those parameters I'd say that my choice of LX was sensible. Anything less fails in hard use and that's just annoying and a waste of money.
Your bike was right for your commute and your mindset, but if your philosophy was foisted onto a casual or less committed rider then they would become disenchanted with cycling very quickly. I know, I used to sell bikes to people who would tell me what they needed and then buy an unsuitable bike on cost grounds. then they would return and say they weren't enjoying it or the bike was broken or it was too expensive to run. Horses for courses and all that.
I don't see anyone telling us that we are daft to ride large capacity singles when a Honda C90 is fine for the job. Why bother with that fancy clutch when you could have a marvellous semi-automatic change? Why keep replacing those trendy fork seals when you could have the tried and trusted C90 fork? Why get cold legs when you could have the best in plastic leg shields... and all for loads less than your trendy complicated motorcycle :-)
Mind you, I knew I was going to far with cycles when I bought titanium chain ring bolts for about £35!... that pulled me back from the brink. But that's racing for you, you keep looking for an edge.
GC
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Have to agree with GC some here. There are a variety of way you can look at specification. There are the must have's - which if they are missing then the bike is next to useless, the more's are betters - which does have a limit - like LX XT etc, you get to a point where any more expenditure is wasted and probably just buys you kit that is less useful - think race tyres on a road bike (m/c here) - they never heat up enough. There is a difference between riding a bike which lends extra fitness and riding a bike that lends extra effort. The quality of the exercise is different - and in exercise quality is so important. Also this is a commute, we are looking to do a days work... A gas pipe clunker is not only heavier, but also bends and twists as you put pressure through the peddels - making the whole experiance less than pleasurable. My old clunker was great around Northamptoon where it is mostly flat and I could attack the few hills with gusto - but here isn South Wales it is no pleasure to ride, the ratios are all wrong, the chain slips etc etc
However - budget spent on good second hand is far better than on new.
R
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Me Armstrongesque? Heh heh, nice one Pat. I can't really see me in lycra especially yellow. I'm more your "Lanterne Rouge". Anyway, in my opinion there is the small matter of actually sitting outside a pub/cafe on they way back from a hard day's graft on a fine summer's afternoon looking at a well put-together bike. I know you can get a decent second-hand cycle and if it's just a workhorse you'd want that's fair enough. But I'd prefer a new one...it's going to have to last me the rest of my biking life so I'll get one with all the bells and whistles I can muster within my budget and get it set up for my needs. It really is a case of horses for courses as has been previously said. Thanks boys for all the lovely advice. I'm having a great deal of fun sorting out the right bike for me.
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LOL LOL LOL LOL! this is a fun thread :-)
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This should be ideal Bill!
IGNORE THE LINK, I'VE MADE A RIGHT HORLICKS!! HOW TO INSERT IMAGES? IDIOTS KEYSTROKE BY KEYSTROKE GUIDE PLEASE IN FAQ!!!!!!!
LINK REMOVED themoudie 4/7/2013
I hope this all works, inserting things in unknown places from the ether!
Regards, Bill
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well, here's my two pennorth.......having raced and time trialled most of my life I now enjoy pottering about on a hybrid(as previously mentioned) by far the best option....admittedly made up myself, but conforming in the main to what specialized/giant/ et al have on the market.............BUT DON'T BUY ANYTHING!! until you have checked out this auction site
http://www.bumblebeeauctions.co.uk/XcAuctionPro.asp
It is the official disposal site for all police property (stolen, lost property etc), works much like ebay, you need to register before you bid etc......I've had lots of stuff frome there, and, as you would expect, ther are loads of bikes going for silly prices........only drawback i can see is that for large items like bikes you usually have to collect, but you just need to look at your local police stations on the site
have fun
S