Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: Dogbad on November 21, 2010, 02:44:50 PM
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Looking at a Long Term Project. Long term as I am out of the necessary spondoolicks to buy any bits for a few months yet!
Anybody seen an XBR 500 engine running in a hardtail Chop frame? I'd be interested in thoughts for or against the idea and anybody has any links or pictures that might sway me would be appreciated.
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Hi, I've seen a few chops based on trail big singles. A few on t'internet. They look strange 'cos the motor & gearbox unit is so compact that there's acres of space between the box and the back wheel :-\
On the other hand, space for a HUGE oil tank ;)
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these two are pretty good, one is a 650 savage, the other is a dr600 iirc, neither are mine, though the dr big at the back was mine! big singles are the best motor for chops imho.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/ukkatanapics/100_5081.jpg)
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and this is an early stage pic of the chop my mate is building from an xr650 honda. the frame is complete now, and its got a different tank, road tyres and is at the wiring stage now, cracking little thing.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/ukkatanapics/grobbos%20chop/100_5305.jpg)
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these are the latest ive got of it, just needs wiring and paint but you cant fault the simplicity of a big single in a chop frame.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/ukkatanapics/grobbos%20chop/823b9db2.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/ukkatanapics/grobbos%20chop/bd3b2e86.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/ukkatanapics/grobbos%20chop/ef1e9f00.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/ukkatanapics/grobbos%20chop/bfdbe85b.jpg)
so get your grinder out!!!
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Aye john,
MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! :-\ :-\ I'm no going there! :-X :-X Bill.
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For the benefit of someone who just doesn't get it, could anyone explain why please?
It's not a wind up, I seriously don't get it. I've had BMW R1200C and Triumph America loaners and I really don't get why you'd make a bike this shape (Human parachute riding position seems mad) and then top it by taking off the rear springs ??? (The cost saving idea I get mind, I'm a Yorkshireman!).
Andy
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cos you can. thats the simple answer. its customising, making something different, because you want to stand out from the crowd, or look different, or just ride a bike that you know that nobody else anywhere has. ok if you dont like it then thats fair enough. its a free world. but if you ride for example, an xbr do you ever pass comment on why everyone else doesnt ride the same bike? the guy whos building this is a customising genius, he does everything himself aside from painting and chroming. his last bike was widely used by carol nash for its adverts (chopped ducati monster if you remember the cn bike of the year comp last year) its got nothing to do with the riding position, though as he is about 6 ft 6 its probably pretty comfy for him, its just about building a bike that is in the style that you yourself like. if we all rode exactly the same bike then it would be a pretty boring world wouldnt it? or should we all conform to the wishes of the factorys and ride round on identical bikes and dress in identical riding kit?
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I guess that explains it. If I designed a bike it'd be nothing like this, it'd have the seating position of an MZ, no chrome what so ever, I'd spend time enclosing the chain and getting the range out over 300 miles and so forth. If there was a hole behind the engine I'd enclose it as a luggage space. I can understand taking a bike and making it lighter at the expense of bits you don't use (pillion seat, battery etc.) but at that point our design philosophies must diverge somewhat. The world would indeed be boring without people building what they want and the shop bought solutions certainly don't tick many boxes, but what does this bike do better than the standard? It looks better? Art rather than function?
Andy
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Dogbad.... have you thought of building a bobber?
Far less divisive ;D
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I am with Andy on this, seems perverse to take a bike that works ie handles OK etc to create something that not only has been done before over and over but can't handle etc. Seems like a dreadful backwards step to me...
Steffan
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I am with Andy on this, seems perverse to take a bike that works ie handles OK etc
Steffan
And stick a bl00dy sidecar on it. ::)
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Good to get thoughts and pictures etc Cheers!
I must admit I'd be going less radical than the totally home built one, don't have the equipment or the skills for that level. It is a beauty though 8).
I think the "Bobber" idea is pushing a bit but so is the idea of following other peoples styles and going for a Cafe Racer or a flat Tracker style.
No rush but thanks for the replies.
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I am with Andy on this, seems perverse to take a bike that works ie handles OK etc
Steffan
And stick a bl00dy sidecar on it. ::)
Only if you want to be able to carry more, not fall off in the snow and have handling that requires thinking on every corner.
Why do all these cruiser designs have the same small tank, long forks and wide bars? For practical considerations like stability a sidecar is a logical conclusion. When artists reach the same conclusion isn't it called derivative?
Andy
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I've got a chop, lowrider, bobber, tourer, classics, cafe racers new and old, trail, miltary and even sidecar outfits.
Love them all. There is such a variation of machines about how can someone say whats right. They all have their own character.
You get a buzz pushing a modern race replica on an older underated bike, think how good that feels when you are on something that looks unusable.
Mark
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I am with Andy on this, seems perverse to take a bike that works ie handles OK etc
Steffan
And stick a bl00dy sidecar on it. ::)
Only if you want to be able to carry more, not fall off in the snow and have handling that requires thinking on every corner.
Why do all these cruiser designs have the same small tank, long forks and wide bars? For practical considerations like stability a sidecar is a logical conclusion. When artists reach the same conclusion isn't it called derivative?
Andy
but thats the thing in the modern era, logic goes out of the window. if you want practical, buy a ford ka, better on juice, more reliable and probably costs less to tax. doesnt fall over in the snow and ice, starts every day, keeps you dry when it rains. you see, if you want to remove personal choice and taste from it all, and reduce transport to a purely practical method of transporting people from a to b, then sidecars, trikes and most bikes dont figure in it at all. however, if the choice is to be individual and left to the person doing the riding, then the method of transport is all their own, and they can choose whatever method it is that they think suits them. and if that method has a sidecar on the side, or a set of apehangers and 13 inch over front forks, then who are we to say its wrong?
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Thats the beauty of biking and this club as well...Everyone has a different idea of what a "good idea"(bike) should be. Its whatever floats your boat. I too cant see the purpose of bikes that you have to ride like a monkey swinging from the trees but it suits some so let them enjoy. I too am looking for a project at the mo and I dont really know what Im looking for but I DO know what Im not looking for if that makes sense (none of my gibberish seems to of late).
Just my tenpenn`orth for what its worth.
Ian :)
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I'm with the practical side. ;)
Any changes I make to my bikes are to improve the functionality for how I ride (rapid and ragged) and where I ride (lots of bumpy hairpin bends); so big head angles and rigid frames are out.
If I lived down on the coast, slow roads, very gentle curves; then a chop might work.
I've never thought of my bike as a fashion accessory, so impractical bikes which may look pretty just do not appeal.
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chops look awesome, especially parked on the waterfront / in front of a pub / riding slowly past power rangers and their girlfriends. ;) they hark back to the easy rider type roomanticism type stuff. i like em. however, there is a certain amount of eye of the beholder stuff with them. i also like going round corners. fast. so i prefer something with springs as my main bike. read that as only bike (at the moment) m,ainly because i had a hardtail and hit a large bump (torpoint road just before the seaton turnoff for anyone local to plymouth). the single most scary incident of my 17years on a bike without actually having a ccrash. hardtails look good but arent great in the twisties.
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I'm starting to appreciate the custom flat-tracker look. Anyone else here a fan of Sideburn magazine?
(http://sideburnmagazine.com/latest_issue_files/shapeimage_29.png)
GC
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¿flat-tracker?....
well, my RD09 has a shortened flat tracker seat, ;)
but it also has an XL500s tank, VFR clip-ons, SuperMoto wheels, high level cans ???
Apart from "hill climbing cafe mongrel" I don't know what to call it !
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I'm starting to appreciate the custom flat-tracker look. Anyone else here a fan of Sideburn magazine?
(http://sideburnmagazine.com/latest_issue_files/shapeimage_29.png)
GC
Yes, my SR was used in some of the pics in issue 3 or 4 I think.
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saw em at stafford, have to say ive always liked the flat track style.
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The flat-tracker Hinckley Bonneville on the Sideburn stand at Stafford was reputed to have cost £25k!
GC
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The flat-tracker Hinckley Bonneville on the Sideburn stand at Stafford was reputed to have cost £25k!
GC
:o
Now that would make it a simple choice. A bike, or months off work to ride the standard one I have ??? :-\
I thought the idea was to take things off? ???
Andy
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It had a pukka Trackmaster frame, trick Performance Machine alloys and all sorts of engine trickery pokery.
Whilst your there Metters, I heard a story the other day that may appeal to your interest in electronics. There's a bloke here in Cardiff that all the car garages use to diagnose electronic problems. He doesn't fix anything himself, he just tells the garages what's wrong. One garage rang him up about a fault with an Astra and he said, "Disconnect the (specified) block connector and redline the engine three times, reconnect the connector and it will be fixed". They did that and it was indeed fixed.
I find this close to witchcraft.
GC
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I suspect he's wired differently GC!
Dreams in 0's or 1's and programmes chips!
I can't even get my bi-metallic thermostat wired round the right way! ??? ???
'Poor circulation'
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I find this close to witchcraft.
GC
I guess it's that complex it can seem that way. All he's doing is disconnecting something like the air flow meter which puts the ECU into a limp home/calibration mode, then re-teaching it the full rev range. When the bit that confused it (computer hell has 2's!!!!) comes back to life (reconnected) it works. It's actually a lot of very very simple components, but ends up a bit like trying to figure out how an ant hill works.
Andy
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Whilst your there Metters, I heard a story the other day that may appeal to your interest in electronics. There's a bloke here in Cardiff that all the car garages use to diagnose electronic problems. He doesn't fix anything himself, he just tells the garages what's wrong. One garage rang him up about a fault with an Astra and he said, "Disconnect the (specified) block connector and redline the engine three times, reconnect the connector and it will be fixed". They did that and it was indeed fixed.
GC
is his name Dai Agnose?
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LOL :)
That's not the way it works here, he'd be more likely to be called Dai Wire or Dai Fuse. Dai Agnose is way funnier though.
From the Uxbridge English Dictionary (google it for more details):
Diary - To sound a bit welsh
Diabolical - Welsh fertility expert
GC
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LOL :)
That's not the way it works here, he'd be more likely to be called Dai Wire or Dai Fuse. Dai Agnose is way funnier though.
From the Uxbridge English Dictionary (google it for more details):
Diary - To sound a bit welsh
Diabolical - Welsh fertility expert
GC
Aye GC,
That makes the TC a Diatribe! ::)
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Touché! ;) :D :D :D :D
GC
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Dai Abolical
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Hi dogbad. At this moment in time,i myself have got 2 projects on the go. The first is a low hardtail using a yam diversion 600 engine. All though the seat is very low to the ground,the ride should be quite comfy.Instead of using long forks,ive used kawasaki gpz 1000 forks,which have clip on bars.Ive kept the rake angle at about 37 degrees so the front end doesnt look to bad.Its my first build and like yourself,its a bit tough getting bits n bobs together on a limited budget. My second project will be similar to yours.Nothings been built as yet,but ive purchased a suzuki dr650 engine.
Dont know which way to go with this one ......hardtail frame,street tracker,or cafe racer...ime sure it will be a blast. This is one of the reasons why i joined this website.The chops in the previous pages look great.I would like to get some pics on here of my project,but ime still not sure how to get em on. Are you making your own frame,or is somebody else making it for you?
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While we,re on the subject,as regards to the chops not handling because of them being hardtailed or to low for ground clearance issues. Your building it for yourself,and,how you want it to look and finish.Chops will never out handle a ducati,yamR1,suziGSXR.....but that what makes em different.Anybody can go to their local bike shop a blow 10k on a true performance bike....and look like every other power ranger at the local bike meets.....but you cant beat the satisfaction of building your own machine from the ground up.All a matter of what you want to do. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I'll be getting a framebuilder on the job most likely, If I do go that route, Not certain which way to go yet. I've had a few hardtail chops in the past and never been worried about the handling as I tend to be a Slow and Low Rider 8). I quite like the idea of not so much adding to the bike, more taking stuff off and going to a Flat Tracker style. Biggest problem for my mind is the actual fear of getting something wrong that I can't finance putting right again without waiting for a long time. I do have other bikes to use though so I should maybe worry less. At the moment it's far too cold to go out and work in the garage, it'sa rented garage with no electricity for heating. I am keeping my eyes open for something like an old fashioned Parafin heater to use in there. Enough ventilation round the door etc for me not to worry too much there. I've got a 12v 40ah battery for the lighting and any minor power tool jobs so I could be ready to go and have a looksee in the next week or two and see how I feel.
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Even my garages, both wired and dry, don't encourage much time spent in 'em this time of year. It's bloody hard to get motivated at these temperatures.
As for chops, they aren't really my 'thing', but each to their own and all that. I've always felt an irrational need to fit clip-ons to any bike I've owned, but I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with my view of biking.
GC
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.....I am keeping my eyes open for something like an old fashioned Parafin heater to use in there. Enough ventilation round the door etc for me not to worry too much there.
TWO THINGS
I lost a friend this year to CO poisoning in the back of a race van. The charcol appeared to be spent, with little heat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Every gallon of parafin burnt, produces a gallon of H2O!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Condensation and dripping ceilings will just increase your angst and corrosion!!!
Go canny, Bill.
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Sounds like a good excuse to do Bugger all until summer then? ;)
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Hey Dog. try fitting heated grips to yer spanners ;D
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Looking at a Long Term Project. Long term as I am out of the necessary spondoolicks to buy any bits for a few months yet!
Anybody seen an XBR 500 engine running in a hardtail Chop frame? I'd be interested in thoughts for or against the idea and anybody has any links or pictures that might sway me would be appreciated.
I wondered this, and the only one I could find on the Internet was this one:
http://www.bikepics.com/members/thunderrus/86xbr500/
(Pic added by GC):
(http://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2006%5C02%5C18%5Cbikepics-524559-800.jpg)
Cheers
Richard
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I'm guessing that the real challenge is making something that looks good with such a short engine. The XBR motor really shows its off-road ancestry in its compact crankcases.
Another one:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IRYloCw20es/TFYhYaCxdSI/AAAAAAAAAXc/-4RbKYnbzLc/s320/IMG_2576.JPG)
GB250:
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l6rff8Pwwt1qzdhymo1_500.jpg)
Good to hear from you again Richard, all well with you and yours?
GC
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The idea of a really simple, basic machine appeals.
BUT.
I still don't see the point of spending money to design and build something which handles so much worse than anything else on 2 wheels (penny-farthing excluded).
The second aspect is aesthetics: a tiny motor in a stretched frame looks weird, all that empty space before the back wheel.
The bobber look works ok, the chop above looks a bit 1970's Fantic moped, all air and little metal.
I had a genuine HD lowrider once (and NEVER again, but now own a Buell), can't work out why people make copies of customised US Hardlies ???
There again, the big open bit could be used for storage, much better balance than a top-box.
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There again, the big open bit could be used for storage, much better balance than a top-box.
Nah, Jerry can. The tank's only good for 30 miles! ;D
Andy
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(throws cat amongst pigeons) But nobody who rides a custom goes any further than 30 miles... (ducks back below parapet)
LOL ;) :D
Actually the Harley chop owners I drink with tour Europe on their chops most years.
GC
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I must admit that I feel uncomfortable that I might be associated with the "Trying to copy a Harley" types! I do like the look of the black racer style in the picture above and think that might be more the way to go. My only worry is one of physical health in that, since the injuries, I have trouble with putting weight down on my wrists and the Clip on's of a Cafe Racer might make me handle the bike badly. No rush though, time to think for a while yet :)
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No-one copies Harleys any more, they just buy a Sportster if they're that bothered. Customs are just that, custom (unless you are down to putting HD badges on the tank!!)
I say build what you fancy and sod what people think. I got bored a while ago being told by people that whatever I was riding didn't handle as well as (insert current plastic missile of your choice). Only to find half of them can't/don't ride or have the self same missile with all the adjusters set as hard as they'll go ::)
Handling is subjective at the best of times (outside of a racetrack) and as long as you like/don't mind it and it's safe at legal speeds then it's fine.
Quite like the classic hardtail & normal length forks type chop myself, but you just build what you want and you're fine with me ;)
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Sorry Smudge, but I think that ALL chops are just a rehash of what the yanks have been doing to HD's since Easy Rider made them fashionable. I haven't seen anything that didn't start with HD originally... ergo they're just poor copies of bikes they wish they could afford :-[
As for handling, there is nothing subjective about big fork angles (which also greatly increase fork flex), simply put, great straight line stability but very resistent to tight bends and lousy at slow speed running (always see chop riders "paddling" when moving slowly. So in objective terms, chops only handle well in a straight line.
Classical hardtail and short forks is strictly a Bobber, Chops must have long forks and the word "chop" refers to the chopped and raked headstock.
Choppers are thankfully a very small part of the bike customising scene :)
All the rest seem pretty much ok... streetfighters, street scramblers, cafe racers, bobbers, minimals etc
Yes I am heavily prejudiced against bad engineering/dynamics/ergonomics :(
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Handling is subjective at the best of times (outside of a racetrack) and as long as you like/don't mind it and it's safe at legal speeds then it's fine.
Smudge raises an interesting point here. Why does it matter how well a bike handles, I've had many bikes in the past (CX500, XS500, CB250 e.t.c) which had to be manhandled round corners and the challenge was riding them smoothly and quickly, I found this more satisfying than going round a corner twice as quick on a bike that was doing all the work for me. It was the same for trials bikes, I chose to ride a trail bike (DT175) in trials competitions rather than a pukka trials bike, this was because if I cleaned a section it was down to me rather than the bike.
Going back to the initial thread on customs I suppose if its not dangerous, and you enjoy riding it, it doesn't matter if its slower round corners.
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Would have to respectfully agree to disagree there ;) I always understood the original chops to be called chops as a reference to removing all the extraneous junk from overweight Harleys/Indians etc, way before Easy Rider!
The fact that many of the originals were Harleys is a fluke of geography, nothing more, it was the most common (and therefore cheapest!) bike in the area where the scene grew up.
The long forked candy painted chop is an evolution of customisation that began certainly after WW2 (see the original Hells Angel USAF squadron which begat the infamous bike club).
So a Bobber is just a name for a variant of a chop, imho of course ;)
But as I think we agree, there should be room for everyone to build what they want as long as it's safe!
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The Bobbers came first ;) as a reaction to the post-war import to the USA of Triumph, BSA, Norton "lightweight" twins, the local guys bought cheap ex-army harleys and removed everything to lighten their bikes to compete on the streets, they were the early equivalent of English cafe racers. Then "style" took hold and just to be different some guys chopped their frames. :)
In The Wild Ones, Brando rode a Triumph, Marvin rode a Harley Bobber.
Anyone seen a Chopper on film before that? ;)
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I think we're arguing over chopped bikes or chopped frames, but I'm not an expert so I'll shut up now ;) ;D ;D
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ok all, :) :) but I love this bike 'cos its customised without detriment to the way it works on the road, inherently quicker with sharper steering simply due to weight reduction.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5244/5246619782_af97bcde9c_b.jpg)
Bobber c1950, the guy is really having fun 8)
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ok all, :) :) but I love this bike 'cos its customised without detriment to the way it works on the road, inherently quicker with sharper steering simply due to weight reduction.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5244/5246619782_af97bcde9c_b.jpg)
Bobber c1950, the guy is really having fun 8)
Until he landed on his head.
Now thats what you call a knuckle head. ;D
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Man and machine....perfect!!
Great pic
Steff
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Have a gander at the Bullet, then scroll on down the thread below! You'll either love 'em or loathe 'em!
Bullet Bobber thread (http://rocket-garage.blogspot.com/)
Toodle pip from Lapland, Bill.
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I was just about to post that Bill! Great minds and all that ;D
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The Bullet Bobber has some very neat touches, but to make it into an extended hardtail just by adding some bent tube and flat bar to the swinging arm is aesthetically terrible, bad engineering and just plain lazy; the bolt-on hardtail from Hitchocks is a much more professional job.
Back tyre isn't exactly designed for bends ???
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I agree about the rear end treatment. It looks like somebody has been told what a hardtail is and never thought of anything beyond that. Rest of the bike looks interesting but the back end is an ******* end! :P
Edit to say I just had another look and the akshool finished item, bottom picture, does look good!
Could try harder but did okay I reckon.