Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: guest7 on January 20, 2010, 04:49:30 PM
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Any advice about what to look for when viewing a Jawa (two stroke) 350?
No reason... ;)
GC
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psychiatrist?
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You're only showing off because you can spell pysc... psyhc... phycs... dammit!
GC
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Any advice about what to look for when viewing a Jawa (two stroke) 350?
No reason... ;)
GC
Make sure its got a sidecar. ;D
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It's a bit like buying Russian - you really need to know what you're looking at. There are some nice Jawa CZ's out there but there are a lot more money pits. Unless it's REALLY cheap - Caveat emptor!
They do have some nice sidecars though!
Buy an MZ!!
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Chassis parts should be obvious to suss out, but I haven't bought a stroker in years... I'm guessing all the usual applies, listen for rattles and knocks, etc?
GC
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I'm no expert, but basically look out for bottom end knocks/ rumbles, little end tinkling, excessive smoking ( yes I know it's a 2 stroke!) could be crank seals going or knackered rings/ bore. Check gears all select and kickstarter works - Jawa CZ's have a funny combined gearlever/ kickstarter and that the charging system is working properly. They are pretty simple engines but I'm not sure what the spares situation is. I seem to remember pistons are hard to source. Most East European 2 strokes seem to have problems with spares, even MZ's.
Oh yes the brakes can be 'interesting' if they are not set up just right!
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check gearbox oil- if it's low it can be a sign of worn crankcase seals and bearings (sucks in the oil and burns it).
bullet350
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I'm no expert, but basically look out for bottom end knocks/ rumbles, little end tinkling, excessive smoking ( yes I know it's a 2 stroke!) could be crank seals going or knackered rings/ bore. Check gears all select and kickstarter works - Jawa CZ's have a funny combined gearlever/ kickstarter and that the charging system is working properly. They are pretty simple engines but I'm not sure what the spares situation is. I seem to remember pistons are hard to source. Most East European 2 strokes seem to have problems with spares, even MZ's.
Oh yes the brakes can be 'interesting' if they are not set up just right!
GC, if you take all this into account you ain't gonna buy it. :D
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I'm no expert, but basically look out for bottom end knocks/ rumbles, little end tinkling, excessive smoking ( yes I know it's a 2 stroke!) could be crank seals going or knackered rings/ bore. Check gears all select and kickstarter works - Jawa CZ's have a funny combined gearlever/ kickstarter and that the charging system is working properly. They are pretty simple engines but I'm not sure what the spares situation is. I seem to remember pistons are hard to source. Most East European 2 strokes seem to have problems with spares, even MZ's.
Oh yes the brakes can be 'interesting' if they are not set up just right!
GC, if you take all this into account you ain't gonna buy it. :D
I used to be heavily involved with the Cossack Owners Club and through them got to know the Jawa Cz and MZ clubs (I've also been a member of the MZRC). To be honest, MZ's aside, I would struggle to recommend any East European 2 stroke unless you have a good tool kit and a lot of spare time. Most owners seemed to spend more time fixing than riding. :(
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Most owners seemed to spend more time fixing than riding. :(
errr...GB, XBR, CB. :D I think his Jap stuff ain't much better.
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A good one is something else but in all honesty you would be better off with an MZ - do you have the details of this bike then?
Steffan
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Has it got a sidecar, in which case don't touch it but forward the details to me immediately.
"I love the smell of two stroke in the mornings........"
Richard
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Any advice about what to look for when viewing a Jawa (two stroke) 350?
No reason... ;)
GC
WHY !!!
You have more than enough Rubshh !.....Errmm Stuff ! ;)
Too Old...cant get the spares as easily OR cheaply as you could !
Having had a few they go supprisingly well,very torquey.
Hope its 12v electrics....where would you get the points from nowadays ?
An outfit I had pulled myself,robG,a slab of beer and camping kit to The Dragon back in '94 at a steady 60.Stopping was a little entertaining.
Capable of crossing a Ploughed field with ease.That was the alloy engined TS350.
And I really liked my CZ 350.Cracking bike.Basicaly CZ 125 rolling chassis with the Iron Barrelled Jawa 350 Motor in it.
Jethro
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Calm down you guys.
My brother is looking to buy it for its sidecar and to sell the bike on to recoup some of the cost. He just wanted to know what to look for when viewing the bike.
At the moment the cost is wrong, but I'll keep you posted. If he passes on it I will post its details here for someone else to have a try.
GC
STOP PRESS - there's been an interesting development, I'll say more if it all comes off... best laid plans and all that...
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Any advice about what to look for when viewing a Jawa (two stroke) 350?
No reason... ;)
GC
Skip.
Rob.
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Gareth and I have just bought the outfit.
Will write more tomorrow
GC
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Is this going to be your Dragon ride or is the plan to break it up for the chair??
(Congrats BTW ;D)
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Bike has to go off to local mechanic to see if it's Dragon-ready. If yes then it will get reunited with the chair, if no then the chair will go onto my XBR.
Here are some piccies:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2599/4297589488_8a96ac29ac_m.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4296845903_f9ece82a08_m.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4297589650_2e5c93b185_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2764/4297589598_5bf444b2a9_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2693/4296846015_b84f1b8edd_m.jpg)
As you can see the chair is in superb condition with the exception of a broken light lense. It comes with a canvas tonneau and the hood and frame.
Price £400.
GC
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Looks OK for £400. Best of luck at the garage.
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Cheers for that Pat. The bike is off the sidecar now and in the back of my van waiting to be delivered to the (unsuspecting) mechanic on Monday morning. The bolts were all easy to remove and hopefully indicate a fairly sheltered life for the old nail.
I hope the bike is a runner as Gareth has definitely taken a shine to it. ::)
I don't know if you have come across one of these outfits in the flesh, but they are so bloody light! We had to wheel it up my dad's steep drive today and in the past, with my outfits, this has been a hassle. However, I reckon I could have done it by myself, onehanded.
One other good thing is the presence of a fairly new car battery in the sidecar boot, this came in very handy yesterday when we towed the outfit home in the dark and I was able to use the lights, even though the bike wasn't running. The brakes were less useful and I was pretty worried about running into the back of the tow car more than once.
GC
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I am quite envious, I've had a couple of these outfits in my younger days, no problems and loads of fun. :(
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I am quite envious, I've had a couple of these outfits in my younger days, no problems and loads of fun. :(
(In a whisper) the brakes are a bit shit though aren't they? :D :D :D :D
If we get the Jawa back on the chair then this will be the first sidecar-braked outfit I will have ridden, I'm looking forward to seeing how that works out.
GC
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One other good thing is the presence of a fairly new car battery in the sidecar boot, this came in very handy yesterday when we towed the outfit home in the dark and I was able to use the lights, even though the bike wasn't running.
GC
Nice looking outfit GC. Looks like you might have got a good 'un.
Do I take it that the bike's alternator is charging the car battery? ( replacing the bike battery)
If so, a word of warning. They did this a lot in the Cossack club. No problems as long as the car battery is fully charged. However, if the battery has gone a bit flat and you try and recharge it by just going for a run on the bike, you can burn out the alternator! Because the car battery has such a high amp hour rate, when it's flattish it tries to draw more power from the alternator than a bike alternator can provide (car alternators are about 500 watt output or more, bike generally less than 200)
and so the alternator can burn out. If you decide to keep it it might be worth seeing if an MZ disc brake front end would fit or if you can fit a Honda TLS front wheel ( That's what I did on one of my old MZ's and it works a treat!)
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As is entirely typical of my biking life, I sold a TLS Honda wheel at Stafford in October... Doh!
Thanks for the battery tip.
I noticed that the bike is still on a Barum front tyre... please don't tell me that it's likely to be the original tyre from new :o
GC
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Grham,
I can probably provide an MZ front wheel and disc brake, even a whole front end, although it is cast and therefore fairly ugly. What I lack is the time to strip it down but let me know.......
Ricard
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Do I take it that the bike's alternator is charging the car battery? ( replacing the bike battery)
If so, a word of warning. They did this a lot in the Cossack club. No problems as long as the car battery is fully charged. However, if the battery has gone a bit flat and you try and recharge it by just going for a run on the bike, you can burn out the alternator!
You can do this with a bike battery. No vehicle system is designed to deal with anything more than what's used to start the engine. The problem is cooling, made worse on most bikes by having the alternator bathed in boiling oil.
If you fit a car battery you gain nothing in terms of over all capacity, you can't suddenly run a bank of spotlights and three heated jackets. What you gain is a battery that will hold enough charge to start the engine at low temperatures (half of 60 Ah is a lot of cranking, half of 8 Ah and you have to hope the coil is good and the carbs are right), plus, a replacement Ford Escort battery is £30 rather than £80. At low temps you don't have the charge issue as the capacity has dropped, you will have to replace the lost charge as the battery warms up but that's a lot more gradual than starting with a battery that's half discharged and wants charging*. On a bike with a kickstart and a very small alternator I'd wonder why anyone would go to the trouble of fitting a car battery, the bike battery charges faster plugged in to the wall and the kicker gets you going on cold mornings.
* For those readers of this site who think in terms of electrical pixies, the pixies get hot and bothered carrying buckets of pixie food from the alternatior (food factory) to the battery (cupboard). The pixies want the battery to be full and will fill any unused space as quickly as they can. When there is only a little space they fill it up and can take a rest, when there is too much space they kill themselves working to get the job done.
Whats the VR on the Jawa? If it's mechanical I'd want it off ASAP, they can be horribly unreliable and inefficient.**
** The Pixies don't like moving the big heavy gate that's there to stop them overfilling the battery, so they don't bother if they can avoid it. They only bother when the battery is almost empty and then they struggle to fill it up. The gate has a habit of falling off it's hinges. ::)
Andy
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Jawa/CZ did a Disc brake on their later models,find one and its a straight swap !
Yes the charging system is Mechanical and the alternator output is around 100/120w !!!
Pretty low output as its not needed for much.
Jethro
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Jawa/CZ did a Disc brake on their later models,find one and its a straight swap !
I believe some club members advocate stopping Eastern European two stroke sidecar outfits using hedges and walls. ;)
GC
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Whats the VR on the Jawa? If it's mechanical I'd want it off ASAP, they can be horribly unreliable and inefficient.**
Andy
It's a common mod on the 2 smoke MZs to replace the VR with an electronic one.There is a car one{forget which} that fits.It's cheap and it works well.
I had a complete MZ disc brake front end.I sold it to a mate but I know that he hasn't used it for anything,it's still sat in his garage.
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Whats the VR on the Jawa? If it's mechanical I'd want it off ASAP, they can be horribly unreliable and inefficient.**
I remember the hours of fun cleaning the points and adjusting them.
Trying to get them to charge on my many MZs and Jawa/CZs.
Jethro
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I believe some club members advocate stopping Eastern European two stroke sidecar outfits using hedges and walls. ;)
GC
You haven't lived until you've tried the brakes of a 175 Voshkod!!...5" drum made of case hardened porridge and brake liners of soap! :o
I fitted an old MZ front wheel ( the one that everyone replaces with a Honda TLS coz it's useless) and it was a vast improvement!!
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Do I take it that the bike's alternator is charging the car battery? ( replacing the bike battery)
If so, a word of warning. They did this a lot in the Cossack club. No problems as long as the car battery is fully charged. However, if the battery has gone a bit flat and you try and recharge it by just going for a run on the bike, you can burn out the alternator!
You can do this with a bike battery. No vehicle system is designed to deal with anything more than what's used to start the engine. The problem is cooling, made worse on most bikes by having the alternator bathed in boiling oil.
If you fit a car battery you gain nothing in terms of over all capacity, you can't suddenly run a bank of spotlights and three heated jackets. What you gain is a battery that will hold enough charge to start the engine at low temperatures (half of 60 Ah is a lot of cranking, half of 8 Ah and you have to hope the coil is good and the carbs are right), plus, a replacement Ford Escort battery is £30 rather than £80. At low temps you don't have the charge issue as the capacity has dropped, you will have to replace the lost charge as the battery warms up but that's a lot more gradual than starting with a battery that's half discharged and wants charging*. On a bike with a kickstart and a very small alternator I'd wonder why anyone would go to the trouble of fitting a car battery, the bike battery charges faster plugged in to the wall and the kicker gets you going on cold mornings.
* For those readers of this site who think in terms of electrical pixies, the pixies get hot and bothered carrying buckets of pixie food from the alternatior (food factory) to the battery (cupboard). The pixies want the battery to be full and will fill any unused space as quickly as they can. When there is only a little space they fill it up and can take a rest, when there is too much space they kill themselves working to get the job done.
Whats the VR on the Jawa? If it's mechanical I'd want it off ASAP, they can be horribly unreliable and inefficient.**
** The Pixies don't like moving the big heavy gate that's there to stop them overfilling the battery, so they don't bother if they can avoid it. They only bother when the battery is almost empty and then they struggle to fill it up. The gate has a habit of falling off it's hinges. ::)
Andy
Lol Andy, your pictsies explanations are priceless, and surprisingly effective ;D
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If we get the Jawa back on the chair then this will be the first sidecar-braked outfit I will have ridden, I'm looking forward to seeing how that works out.
Ha Ha Ha ! You Think you will Notice !
Mind with the Jawa brakes you do need all the assisstance you can have ;D ;D ;D
Jethro
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The guy who bought the Jawa 500R from me put a nice disk on the front - replacing the TLS that was there, which was a replacement for the SLS it came with (the 500 lump was put into a 350 stroker in the UK? Front end modded?)
There are some pics about here some place
R
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The guy who bought the Jawa 500R from me put a nice disk on the front - replacing the TLS that was there, which was a replacement for the SLS it came with (the 500 lump was put into a 350 stroker in the UK? Front end modded?)
There are some pics about here some place
R
Yes ! And the disc front end was fitted to both the 500R and CZ125/180 and Jawa 350 Two-Strokes
Jethro
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Reading the posts on here suddenly makes me realise how little I know about bikes... :o
Ian
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Just flicking through some of my manuals and the alernator output 14V/15A so not a lot at all.
And the brakes are 160mm all round.
Jawa/CZ used the same hub for all 3 wheels on thier outfits.
Rims on the bike are the same 18",so they are interchangable but the sidecar has a 16" rim.
Jethro
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Just flicking through some of my manuals and the alernator output 14V/15A so not a lot at all.
And the brakes are 160mm all round.
Jawa/CZ used the same hub for all 3 wheels on thier outfits.
Rims on the bike are the same 18",so they are interchangable but the sidecar has a 16" rim.
Jethro
How big are the buttons on your JAWA anorak :-*
Rob.
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Hang on, that anorak could be useful...
Bike ran yesterday after a points clean and carb clean out. However, I need to change the engine oil and I have no info on what grade and how much, etc. Also, as some numpty has binned the airbox and fitted a K&N filter, i need to know what the standard jet sizes are so I can tell if it's been jetted to suit.
My thoughts are to find a new airbox and put it all back to standard, but in the meantime if it will run with the filter then that will be fine.
GC
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Change the engine oil ?????
Its a two stroke, if it has engine oil it has broken down.
You've been rdiing around on Thumpers for too long.
(where did I put that jacket ?)
Richard
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Graham,
I am so embarrased on your behalf that I have had to pull the hood up on my anorak - engine oil indeed ;D ;D ;D ;D
Steffan
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So then my Suzuki stroker has injector oil to the big ends and the mains are oiled by the non-sacrificial gearbox / engine oil.
Mind I did have a friend run a Fizzy for many months before he discovered that the engine drain bolt was missing and he had been running the gearbox pretty much dry.
R
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Hehe. Older MZs ran gearbox oil in the mains as well, with no pump I doubt its efficacy though. Lots of injection equipped two strokes put the oil onto the big ends in the first instance but the MZ, Jawa/CZ systems just dribble it into the crankcase.
Lots of folk convert the MZs into premix and owners will argue at length about the merits of each.
I guess a total loss oil system means they have something in common with Brit Singles though ::) !
Cue flame wars.
Richard
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Lots of folk convert the MZs into premix and owners will argue at length about the merits of each.
Richard
Nooooooo,not the premix/autolube debate.
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Er... don't the gears run in oil then? I have a vague notion of how strokers work but I assumed there would be some gearbox oil to change.
What would I know, I've haven't owned a stroker since 1983 and that was a Suzuki FS50
GC
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Certainly the ones I've played with had gearbox oil, which iirc was actually "engine" oil used to lubricate the gears, I suspect you have been attacked by "pedants we are" ;) ;D
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The bike is now at my brother's house being played with and kicked straight. He took the baffles out and cleaned them, but I forgot to include the keys with the bike so he wasn't able to start it today. He's got the keys now so I expect an update tomorrow am.
He also promised to check the chain and sprockets, but as the whole lot is enclosed he wasn't looking forward to that.
We were pretty 'impressed' by the fact that the carb is a push-fit in the inlet manifold :D I guess it must work ok otherwise they wouldn't have done it that way... a logic I cannot extend to the braking system ;)
I'll say one thing about the bike, there's not many bikes you can load into and out of a van single-handed.
GC
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Alright then smartypants !
Why does my BMW have engine oil and gearbox oil then. Not the same thing at all.
Folk try all sorts in teh MZ gearbox - 80w, 20/50, ATF. I had to use two stroke oil once when I realised it had dumpted it all and that was all I had. Quite a smooth change.
Richard
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Alright then smartypants !
Why does my BMW have engine oil and gearbox oil then. Not the same thing at all.....
Because otherwise their gearboxes would fail even more often ;-)
In some applications, you are quite right, the shear resistance and viscosity of the oils used for engines and gearboxes differ markedly, and yet on others it's remarkable what will work... and of course what's written on the back of the oil can is generally farm more important than the flashy logos and advertising splattered over the front ;)
If bikes really need "gearbox" oil for their transmissions why don't 90% of unit construction bikes eat their gearboxes?? ;) :P ;D
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ECHO margarine!
The difference between it and a lump on the head is butter! ::)
Toodle pip, Bill.
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Hang on, that anorak could be useful...
Ha ! I see pick my Brains !
How much GEAR Oil ?
Tyre Pressures with Sidecar !
.......How much is it worth ?....all this info..?
Oh ! and I have a Brand New Hagon Shock.....Triple Heavy Duty for a Velorex 562.
Jethro
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See you've actually asked more questions than I had thought of... you're making a rod for your own back you are ;)
We all know what it's worth... absolutely shag all :D :D :D
If the shock is for sale how much do you want for it? (it could double the value of the bike!)
GC
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If the shock is for sale how much do you want for it? (it could double the value of the bike!)
GC
That it would !!
Get in touch and lets talk ;D
Jethro
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I like a dash of premix especially on running in..but you have to have it running before you worry about pump vs premix..
Steffan
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In my MZs I like silkolene light gear oil for the g e a r b o x. The e n g i n e uses the pump with a dash of premix also Silkolene (semi-synth) If you plan to keep it it would serve to replace the points ignition and generator with one from here, no constant adjustment or cleaning but lots and lots of revs - beautfiul !!
Steffan
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In my MZs I like silkolene light gear oil for the g e a r b o x. The e n g i n e uses the pump with a dash of premix also Silkolene (semi-synth) If you plan to keep it it would serve to replace the points ignition and generator with one from here, no constant adjustment or cleaning but lots and lots of revs - beautfiul !!
Steffan
Points are OK !
But you do tend to get a better spark with electronic.
Jethro
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Why don't you just change the flint?
Rob.
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Hang on, that anorak could be useful...
Bike ran yesterday after a points clean and carb clean out. However, I need to change the engine oil and I have no info on what grade and how much, etc. Also, as some numpty has binned the airbox and fitted a K&N filter, i need to know what the standard jet sizes are so I can tell if it's been jetted to suit.
My thoughts are to find a new airbox and put it all back to standard, but in the meantime if it will run with the filter then that will be fine.
GC
Have Jet sizes and oil info !
Let me know which model.
Jethro
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Mind you don't get oil on your anorak !
Rob
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Mind you don't get oil on your anorak !
Rob
Sod Off !
Jethro
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Bloody hell. I hope you realise that a two stroke multi has generated more discussion on the thumper list than any other bike for ages.
Richard
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Have Jet sizes and oil info !
Let me know which model.
Jethro
Cheers for that. At first Google the model appears to be called a 350 Type 638.5. but I will keep checking
It looks exactly like this one (which apparently is a Type 638):
(http://www.jawaczownersclub.co.uk/images/image2008-02-27-124028-1.jpg)
GC
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Aaargh, not the dreaded combined gearlever/kickstart ?
Richard
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Aaargh, not the dreaded combined gearlever/kickstart ?
Richard
(http://upperjames.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/dog.jpg)
Oooooh Yes!
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Aaargh, not the dreaded combined gearlever/kickstart ?
Richard
If you turn it the opposite way, it makes a noise like a barrel organ............That reminds me of a song about a girl from Glamorgan..... ;D :D
Rob.
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Aaargh, not the dreaded combined gearlever/kickstart ?
Richard
That also operates the clutch.....bit like the Triumph Slick Shift of days gone by !
Jethro
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Check out this version:
(http://www.jawaczownersclub.co.uk/images/6.jpg)
the phrase 'polishing a turd' comes to mind, but it does look very pretty ;)
GC
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Spoiling a perfectly good motorcycle with distasteful paintwork more likely.
If you fail to get it running I might be willing to make you a modest offer for the bike but strictly without the peg-leg.
Steffan
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Sorry to say Steffan, it runs and my brother keeps belting it up and down his lane to 'just test the gears' (he's such a child ;)). What he actually tests is his sphincter each time he uses the front 'brake'.
We agreed today to shelve it as a Dragon ride, he felt that it was too little time to test it out. Jethro said much the same to me last night on the phone and if he knows about anything it's the bad things that happen when Eastern European two strokes let you down. He once dismounted at 70mph on the motorway when an MZ seized :o :o :o
The CB500 sailed through its MOT this morning. I met RobG in the bike shop, he was getting his XS1100 behemoth MOT'd too.
GC
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Bloody hell. I hope you realise that a two stroke multi has generated more discussion on the thumper list than any other bike for ages.
That's the kind of broad-minded, good-natured forum it is :)
Also, we seem to like quirky tat.
GC
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Check out this version:
(http://www.jawaczownersclub.co.uk/images/6.jpg)
the phrase 'polishing a turd' comes to mind, but it does look very pretty ;)
GC
Ah I see the chair is on the 'interesting' side - to overtake nose the chair out and judge by the passengers expression if the road is clear or not!! :o ( I've been in the chair and done that!)
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If the passenger is screaming you've probably got time to react. When Jethro parked his Velorex under a car (with me in the sidecar) I didn't even see it coming... I just woke up in hospital wondering what the hell happened.
GC
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What's scaring me is the fact that I keep seeing this photo and thinking it looks cute :o :o :o :o
(http://www.jawaczownersclub.co.uk/images/image2008-02-27-124028-1.jpg)
Then I starting thinking "I could fit an XBR engine in there" :D :D :D
GC
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But why wreck a perfectly good bike ?
If you said you could fit an XBR brake then I might have some sympathy.............
Richard
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Point taken... it's just that my default setting is to think "I could put an XBR engine in that" :D :D :D :D
GC
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What's scaring me is the fact that I keep seeing this photo and thinking it looks cute :o :o :o :o
Then I starting thinking "I could fit an XBR engine in there" :D :D :D
GC
Why Spoil it then !
And create more work and more headache for yourself.....Silly Bugger !
Jethro
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Er... I wasn't being entirely serious ;) :D :D
GC
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Errr! YOU SURE GC?
002 may know you better than you think ;)
Toodle pip, Bill.
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I hate to say it, but I seem to be having a bout of late-onset maturity. My mind still dreams up all these little wheezes and projects, but I then realise that it's all romantic nonsense. I do find such maturity tiresome, but it's better than the old Onepot way of just charging in regardless of cost and then losing interest when the next bloke offers me some magic beans for a cow.
GC
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Errr! YOU SURE GC?
002 may know you better than you think ;)
Toodle pip, Bill.
Exactley !!!!
Thank You Bill !
Jethro
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Aye 002,
Only to happy to oblige. I know another of similar persuasion! ::)
However, if the latest offer made turns out to be true, I may try to acquire a few of these 'beans' myself. I'll keep you posted!
Bill.