Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: bullet350 on December 19, 2009, 04:36:29 PM
-
does anyone have any tips on staying warm, just with clothing etc?
excluding £1500 suits and electric clothing i just don't know how to stay warm when its 1 or 2 degrees.
thermal long-johns & long sleeve vest are a start, but what after that?
i'm wondering about hands and feet especially.
bullet350
-
Hi I ride all year around mainly on BMW tourers, best thing is heated grips.
As for clothing I buy my winter boots one size bigger so I can wear three pairs of thin socks much better than two thick pairs. make sure you have plenty of room to wiggle your toes as too tight socks ( or clothing )will defeat the purpose.
I also wear sports wrist bands as keeping the wrists warm will help your hands stay warm, and mitts rather than gloves with thin silk gloves underneath.
Another thing I have done is to use a spare foam back protector cut short under my jacket zip across my chest. also a belt will keep your kidneys warmer.
Regards Bob
-
One word - layers.
You're welcome
-
I bin wearing a 'fluffy fleece' last couple of years, and they're quite good (e.g. Mountain Hardwear Monkey Man), and one of those windproof running tops with very long sleeves and thumbholes at the end...great base layer, reduces heat loss at wrists=hands last much longer.
I sprung for an Aerostich heated/inflatable fleece 4 years ago, transforms winter (and spring/Autumn) riding. Really worth it, though £170 or more after postage, and may get stung for customs.
I believe Gialli (spelling?) have introduced an electric vest for under £100 recently, which uses a carbon weave panel, rather than lines of electric wires...seems a good value option if quality is fine.
Seriously, go for electricity, it's the answer after 20 years!!! Combined with layers of clever techy thermals from the January sales in yer outdoos shops!!!
Suppose you could go for faired bike (or car?) but that seems a little unsporting.
B
-
Has anybody tried adapting the range of electrically heated clothing being sold by Maplin ?
If we knew what voltage it ran at it may be possible to alter the wiring.
Richard
PS.
It looks as though there website has just crashed, probably down to Christmas, but they list gloves, insoles, gilet etc - and last week in Cardiff they were all reduced, ie £20 for the gilet. ANybody looked at them ?
-
As Pete says,layers.Although after a certain point I find that you have to start putting some heat back in.I have a DIY heated vest,you can make one for about a tenner,plenty of advice on the 'net.This year I am also going to use heated grips under my stylish bar muffs.
-
fully faired bike?
i could use the fully faired escort van.....
bullet350
-
I agree with Bob , heated grips are a must and something to keep the wind off the knuckles, trailie handguards or muffs.
I also fell into the too tight boots trap a few years ago and now wear a size up for my winter boots.
Just buy the best kit you can afford. I know Richard has had much success with the Lidl jacket and trousers so it's not all Dainese and Rukka. How about an update Richard?
More than anything I make sure all the straps and poppers are closed and no gaps for the wind and rain to sneak in.
Rob.
-
Hi, You keep warm by having a layer or layers of warmed air or water that do not get cooled. Clothing that is too tight squashes out the air and the warmth. Too lose and you get a breeze through. A layer next to the skin that wicks away the sweat is good unless you go the Buffalo route that says that wet is not an issue, wind chill is. Grate wicking layers are made of silk, some of the new technical fibers are also good, but remember if you take a tumble polyaramid fibres etc will melt under impact and fuse with your skin, silk does not, infact any silk fibres that get stuck into abrasions can help with healing.
You want too keep he wind off - muffs are great for this, and layers of windproof are good too - mention has been made of these thin running tops made of wind proof or near wind proof textile. Plastic bags over the feet and hands, bin liner over the torso can work, but tend to cause sweat to stay put and can cause discomfort and when it evaporates - cold.
Ladies tights - preferably over silk longjohns add lovely layers of trapped air and can be real warm. Stockings work, are sexier but more difficult to explain in A&E.
A balaclava inside the helmet can cut out the breeze - but usually are too short. Stitching one to a t-shirt, or the yoke of a tee shirt keeps them in and cuts out the breeze down the back.
Wool is warmer wet than dry, but uncomfortable and you need to cut out the wind.
Really look after your feet and hands, if they are warm you can concentrate so much better - and a handful of front brake with cold hands - eeeek - so layers - snug but not tight with a wind proof layer or two over the top. Mits are warmer than gloves as your fingers are in contact and pass warmth.
Ice climbing bots are over size and have nice - usually - felted wool inners - are really snug, but a bastard to change gear in. A nice set of felted inners would probably work well but you will need to go up a number of sizes.
Friend used to swaer by Dachstein (spelling) gloves and socks etc. WEonderfully warm, bloody expensive.
R
-
Aldi gear - jackets been great. In cold weather I have been known to wear a Snugpak Sleeka underneath in preference to the zip-out lining, handy at camp.
Trousers were a 'bargain' Busters/M&P job that were carp from the word go. The velcro strips around the leg were the wrong way around ! I have gon eback to leather in the summer and Hood Jeans with a padded waterproof outer trouser (Bib and Brace) in the winters
Muffs. Yes, probably the simplest and most effective upgrade for winter.
Heated grips. Yes, if only because with muffs (never without) they enable you to wear a lighter glove and keep control which can be clumsy with thick gloves. Particularly important in low grip conditions.
Having written that I find Pathans from the Gherkin shop to be very effective.
Windproof and waterproof outer layer, with layered seals for limbs and neck.
Oversize boots allowing a pair of goretex or SealSkinz socks and an extra pair of warm socks.
I am still hunting the perfect boot. Altberg would be nice but are way out of my price range. I have looked at Derri Boots but they offer no protection. I have been looking at Muck Boots but woder if they would have enough manouverability in the ankle for the foot controls. So I am back looking at an oversize pair of German Army/Para boots from Endicotts. They have a double leather lining whcih is comfy.
http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=75&products_id=1885
The website only mentions up to size 9.5 which for me wouldn't be enough, I am really after size 10.5 in a wide fitting. Anybody out there got any boot advice for the winter ?
-
Two things you cant really skimp on is boots and gloves, I have two pairs of Daytona boots. and alpinestars waterproof gloves. I used to work in a place where they supplied cotton gloves for componant handleing and found they worked really well as inner gloves.
One more thing RELAX, I know its hard to when heading into a howling wind but force yourself.
You will feel warmer by doing so.
-
All good stuff.
The big one to me is to avoid anything tight. Layer upon layer of compressed wool pile is just so much bulk. Better to have layers that can move over each other and actually trap air. Avoid cotton, it's a useless insulator, so only any use waxed as the outer layer. This means going commando/wearing cycling shorts for the first layer to avoid starting with a tight t-shirt :o
Collars and cuffs can be a pain. You need to experiment as the likes of Horrible Gherkin spend all their time messing with wool pile and Goretex and forget the basics. A wool shirt with a falling collar will seal the neck gap a lot better and cheaper than twelve strips of velcro and cardboard stuffed plastic in my experience, but you need to find what fits.
Don't forget where the heat comes from. The body is warmer if it has a supply of easily digested, high energy food. You can try pemican if you feel the need(yuk!), but I'd stick to a decent cooked breakfast and pasta/soup/stew type stuff for lunch. You need plenty of warm drinks too. For the winter rallies, it's unfortunately better not to get ****ed on the gluhwein or drink gallons of coffee, both dehydrate and make digestion less efficient. For older gents, consider half an aspirin, thinner blood gets round easier. There are side effects such as more mess when you cut yourself, so read up/see the quack before you try, but it does have the desired effect.
Boot wise, I've been wearing East German border guard boots since the wall came down. Decent quality, fur lined and repairable. A batch seems to have made it to the surplus shops/e-bay the last few months or so. The only hassle for some is that all communist soldiers seem to have has size 7 feet ???
More ramblings and stuff I'm playing with here https://sites.google.com/site/threewheelbonnie/cold-places/clothing
Keep warm :)
Andy
-
I am still hunting the perfect boot. Altberg would be nice but are way out of my price range
I have a couple of pairs of Altberg 'Field and Fell' boots.Being a tight sod both were second hand from ebay,about £30 a pair.One pair are a size too big to allow for a couple of pairs of socks.They have been warm and waterproof,I am pleased with them.If you did go the ebay route for a pair watch the sizes.I am a size 9 but need a 9.5 in Altbergs.My first pair were too small so I sold them on again.
-
Layering and heated grips have always worked for me. Having a bike with a decent fairing also helps.
-
I am still hunting the perfect boot. Altberg would be nice but are way out of my price range
I have a couple of pairs of Altberg 'Field and Fell' boots.Being a tight sod both were second hand from ebay,about £30 a pair.One pair are a size too big to allow for a couple of pairs of socks.They have been warm and waterproof,I am pleased with them.If you did go the ebay route for a pair watch the sizes.I am a size 9 but need a 9.5 in Altbergs.My first pair were too small so I sold them on again.
I have just had a pair of the 'field and fell' waterproof boots back from ebay, made the error of buying my size which is a 10, far to small even without socks. I'd recommend them for a size 9 foot, they are a great pair of boots in excellent condition. Cost me £51, now up for sale. Will go on ebay soon unless someone here wants them.
Mark
-
All good stuff and to summarise (as I see it)
Wind protection is essential, muffs and screen are ideal and legshields are well worth fitting too.
Buy clothing that is loose-fitting (but not too baggy).
Heated grips are de rigeur
The one thing you shouldn't skimp on is good boots. I also use Daytona boots (roadstars) and they are the best value for money I've ever spent in biking (although they are £240+ to start with). I made the mistake of buying a pair that fitted snugly, but my second pair are a size up and they are perfect with a couple of pairs of good (thin) socks.
Eat well for energy to aid body warmth.
My personal choice for riding kit in very cold and/or wet weather is thin layers of warm clothing under a goretex layer. If it's wet I put on a one-piece nylon rainsuit. All my fancy Dainese Goretex gear works really well, but after a couple of hours of the outer being wet it starts to wick up the cuffs and ankles. It's better to delay this by wearing a thin waterproof outer layer... although it makes pee stops a trial ::)
For my last two winter rallies I have worn a body warmer over my goretex jacket It stops the wind getting to your jacket zip and gives a little more warmth to your torso:
(http://iloapp.dragonrally.org.uk/blog/elefant?ShowFile&image=1237246388.jpg)
I use this as a sort of sacrificial layer, it catches all the crud and light rain (and still fits under the rainsuit if the rain gets heavy enough for me to put it on).
To be honest the only reason I wear my biking goretex trousers and jacket is because of the crash protection that's built in. The collar on the jacket doesn't actually do up very well, which it seems to have in common with most other modern winter motorcycle jackets.
Did anyone mention a balaclava? I use a very good one made by Dainese, it's thin enough to be comfortable under a lid, but still warm. It's also long enough to tuck into your collar to stop the worst of all draughts, that nasty cold one that gets down the back of your neck. I also have a Frank Thomas (spit!) one that is nowhere near as good so I'd say make sure you get a nice one and spend a bit more to get it if necessary.
Thin silk undergloves are great at keeping your hands warm.
From my experience I'd say that if you stop the windblast (screen, muffs, legshields, etc.) then you are more than halfway to being comfortable on the bike. Address these first then find clothing to suit.
GC
-
Boots wise, I'll continue to use Altbergs though have pressed a pair of Lidl boots into winter duty. My last pair of Altberg Field and fell lasted around six years continuous use, both for work and bike. That works out less than twenty pounds a year.They are rebuildable therefore may well be sent off, to the factory, for resoling and relining, for the cost of fifty quid. In addition, I now have a new pair .
Apologies Richard, Aldi not Lidl. As above, I'm wearing a pair of their boots back and fore to work and given the weather recently they have so far failed to leak. This is despite the dog eating one of them.Definately a well spent £29:99. The only problem with them is the sole is very soft and they can be painful when placing the model on the centre stand.
I also, like others make use of a muff around the neck. I prefer this to a balaclava.
Rob.
-
Yup, in agreement with 99.9% of the above, the other 0.1% is personal preferrence!
I use a thermal long sleeved T shirt under sometimes a normal T-shirt and a "norge" pile shirt over the top. All cheap and available in surplus stores ;) snugpack sleeka jackets are brilliant though I tend to save them for something to wear once I've arrived (a black one looks more "normal" and less bikey if that bothers you).
I use a normal ballistic nylon bike jacket as it's warm and has some crash protection, you *will* want a cheap pvc waterproof jacket to go over the top though as the manf's all lie, they are NOT waterproof! Try millets or similar, you want, cheap, non-breathable and expendable ;-) same for the overtrousers...
Talking of the lower half, as already pointed out tights are very good, and if it's very bad stick some long johns over the top. Trousers are up to you but avoid jeans as they hold water and get cold, and chafe(!)
Socks, many and loose and boots for me are Altberg.
I used to use a scarf but now I use a neck tube that came free with a bike mag a few years ago, tucks into the helmet and down into my collar and eliminates all draughts :)
Heated grips.. oh yes, but ensure your bike/battery can deal with it, and handlebar muffs may not be stylish but they are your friends, just ensure you fit some sort of brush guard first to avoid the clutch / brake dragging and spoiling your day ;)
Finally, any sort of wind deflection will help, screen, handguards, fairing, legshields, whatever. Have a look at some Elefantentreffen photos for a host of homebrewed ideas ;D
-
For a long trip I don a fleece onesie; I use a Crewsavers one designed to be worn under sailing drysuits, but you can also use caving onesies. Really does help keep the warmth in.
Aside from that, lambswool insoles and making sure I've got a buff or something around my neck to keep the heat in. Never had heated grips, and don't get on with muffs.
-
Hadn't used heated grips until this winter.. maybe I'm getting old but I'm converted! ;)
Good point about the one piece thermals, worth a look at "diving" websites for the thermal suits designed to be worn under drysuits, a bit bulky but *very* warm. (Commonly nicknamed "wooly bear" suits for some reason?!?)
Edited to add: Andy suggests "For the winter rallies, it's unfortunately better not to get ****ed on the gluhwein or drink gallons of coffee, both dehydrate and make digestion less efficient. For older gents, consider half an aspirin, thinner blood gets round easier. There are side effects such as more mess when you cut yourself, so read up/see the quack before you try, but it does have the desired effect."
Whilst I bow to your experience over winter rallies and whatnot mate, I must add a little note of caution here, the principal problem with alcohol and cold, (in the trainings I've had), is that amongst other things it thins the blood a little, like aspirin, and so retains circulation to the extremities longer. Whilst this *sounds* like a good thing, what it means is that you lose core temperature faster and your body is less able to protect your core temp by closing down the blood supply to the less critical extremities. If you're sitting in below freezing air at 60/70mph for any length of time you *are* at risk of hypothermia, deliberately thinning your blood by any means is increasing that risk so I would have to counsel against it. (google Vasoconstriction, and hypothermia for more info) After all, can you tell the difference in yourself between enduring the cold on a freezing motorway and getting a bit drowsy because you're tired or getting a bit drowsy because you're becoming dangerously hypothermic? (bet you can't.. it's like O2 starvation, obvious to an outsider but very difficult to identify when it happens to you). I've seen people become dangerously hypothermic in the UK in a surprisingly short time, it is a real risk on long bike runs in the winter and you probably wont be aware of it happening to you if it does, :(
Oh and hydrate with warm fluids, cold ones take too much energy to heat up. Hot fruit juices are good, as is hot chocolate and similar.
Everything else is smack on the money though, oh and another quick addition, keep a woolly/good fleece hat to hand and as soon as the helmet comes off whack it on your head. Makes a surprising difference :)
-
You just reminded me that I still have my woolly bear in the attic, haven't worn it on the bike for years but may drag it out and back into service. That under the Norgie could be spectacularly warm.
Richard
-
Richard,
Does this mean we will see the green herringbone one piece undergarment and matching flat cap at the Dragon this year?
;)
Rob
-
The flat cap is almost definite, I just wore it to the supermarket. If it is guaranteed to just snow though I would wear the fleece, or the real, cossack hat. Not very waterproof though.
One should always wear a hat.
Once off the bike at winter rallies and the like what is the favoured headgear then ?
And I know what the elefantisti will write............
Richard
-
I think this could become a theme for the Rally.
Shall we have an undertaking for members to attend the Rally in whatever headgear they see fit, traditional or otherwise. We could perhaps move away from the wooly hat brigade and adopt flat caps, trilbys etc. I know Graham may have a bowler tucked away.
The smoking jackets went down well a few years back.
Shall we see what we can do?
Rob.
-
I'm up for that. Now where did I put that dearstalker??
-
. If you're sitting in below freezing air at 60/70mph for any length of time you *are* at risk of hypothermia, deliberately thinning your blood by any means is increasing that risk so I would have to counsel against it. (google Vasoconstriction, and hypothermia for more info) head. Makes a surprising difference :)
The best hypothermia test I know is to put the letters of the last car numberplate that passed you into order. So, Y407KCB has to be read 047BCKY. If you start umming and erring and running through the alphabet you need to stop. The last time I "failed" the test was back in 2004 heading up the hill towards Regensburg. GC decided to stop too and we were both stupidly cold.
The thin blood thing is a double edged sword. Poor circulation means cold hands and feet sooner than needs be with ultimately frostbite. Same goes for tight clothing. If the core is warm and the feet are stuck out in the slipstream with no circulation you feel cold sooner. Of course, if you let yourself get so cold there isn't any heat to circulate it's a waste of time and as you say you made it worse. I really do only suggest this to people who know their circulation isn't up to it, not as a general rule. I'm into comfort not crazy adventures, when anything starts to feel uncomfortable I stop, there is no way I'm getting anywhere near hypothermia or frost bite. I am talking about riding a motorcycle in countries where there are service stations and hotels every few miles, not walking to pole. I'd take a different view if I thought I couldn't walk to somewhere warm or get picked up inside an hour.
Andy
-
Absolutely :) not meaning to criticise what you do, just warn off people who may use the trick inadvisedly ;)
-
Just tried the test whilst sitting at the computer and failed. Probably something to do with the Barley Wine.
Richard
-
"Apologies Richard, Aldi not Lidl."
Not necessary Rob, in any event the more I think about it I think you may be right and they could be Lidl.
The only bit of their kit I haven't got on with at all was their helmet.
Still looking for a good/cheap winter boot that I can walk about in as well. I used to wear jackboots but they are very uncomfortable to walk in. I was always amazed that the German s so nearly got to Moscow on foot.
Richard
-
Just tried the test whilst sitting at the computer and failed. Probably something to do with the Barley Wine.
Richard
Me too but no barley wine.
Now going back to an earlier post - how does food keep you warm? - Discuss.
Cold drinks - how do they chill you and over what period? A short essay.
Please remember to take into account relative volumes, metabolism, retained glycogen and body fat.
R
-
Me too but no barley wine.
Now going back to an earlier post - how does food keep you warm? - Discuss.
Cold drinks - how do they chill you and over what period? A short essay.
Please remember to take into account relative volumes, metabolism, retained glycogen and body fat.
R
Hot food keeps you warm by providing a source of heat for your body and as it is metabolised, energy.
Cold drinks cause warm blood inside your body to be cooled in the process of heating the drinks up to body temp, which, if you are already cold, reduces your bodies ability to maintain it's temp.
Of course I'm no expert, and dehydration is also bad... the relative volumes, metabolism etc etc I'll leave you to research yourself, but for a quick practical test why not try sitting outside for an hour today drinking hot chocolate in your pyjamas then repeat the test drinking iced tea and let us know how it goes ;) :P
-
I wouldn't even try to explain the theory at an above GCSE level, but practical experience shows:
One bratwurst, six pints of lager, one of gluhwein and part of a bottle of whiskey lead to a *****y cold night once the stupor wears off at three AM. The resulting hangover is dulled by pain killers and a pint of tea, but service station sandwiches and biscuits do little to keep you warm and result in an inability to ride more than 50 miles at a time.
Pork knuckle, red cabbage with apple, mashed spud, three pints of lager, one schnapps, half a packet of jaffa cakes and a pint of hot chocolate results in waking up when the alarm clock goes and only been sleepy because you are so warm. A pint of green tea and a tin of beans and sausages starts the day warm and only requires a warm drink and a handful of biscuits every hundred and fifty miles to keep going until lunchtime.
Andy
-
"a pint of green tea". Yeeeuccchhh. Tastes of earwax, and an urge to pee.
Richard
-
"a pint of green tea". Yeeeuccchhh. Tastes of earwax, and an urge to pee.
Richard
I know I will regret this, but how do you know what earwax tastes like ?
Rob .
-
The senses of smell and taste are inextricably intertwined. And I always sniff my earwax.
Richard
-
The senses of smell and taste are inextricably intertwined. And I always sniff my earwax.
Richard
Then lick your fingers clean !
Jethro
-
One should always wear a hat.
That reminds me, I should have said that my trusty balaclava can just be rolled up onto your bonce at petrol stops and serves as a very toasty hat.
On a lightly related note, I got my lovely Mountain Equipment down jacket back yesterday. It's looking a bit old and battered these days and the zip had finally given up the ghost. I mentioned this to my friend John and he said that his brother (visiting from London for the holiday) might be able to replace it without losing any of the down filling. To cut a long story short, it has a new zip, it's as warm as ever (very warm indeed) and it only cost me £10!
GC