Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: Andy M on September 01, 2009, 09:39:42 AM
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Well chaps, hopefully the company hack will be going back shortly and I'll be working indoors again. This however leaves me with a need for a two wheel commuter capable of doing 40 miles a day on a mix of city streets and dual carriageway 5 days a week except when it snows. Initialy this will be my MZ. However MZ's are pretty inefficient, especially if it siezes more than once every few years and parts are getting hard to come by. I therefore have a thought that I should get something simple and efficient that in addition could be used for the odd camping trip. Some sort of off road/green lane capacity would be nice, so would a decent range (like a weeks commute, but I'm thinking that's not going to happen).
So, if you had space in the garage and say £2K to spend what would you look at? My list so far is:
Triumph Bonnevilles/Scramblers: suspect they are out of my price range, but having two bikes with the same gubbins would make sense and I might push the boat out/wait longer for this.
Enfield Bullet. Had one, liked it, not convinced about dual carriageway performance day in day out though.
Enfield Bullet Diesel: Suspect the fuel payback would be longer than big bits of the bike would survive for.
C90: I have an urge to try riding one somewhere silly and an obvious commuter. Not sure I'd like the M621 on one though.
125/250 cc Universal Japanese Trail bikes: I have no idea what to look for. I liked my XT600, so would probably go look for the 250 version. Any idea what rots/falls off? How are they for range and service intervals, 2000 mile oil changes would be a killer. Would 10 miles at 65 mph destroy them?
BMW F650: While I'm not sure after the waterpump in the desert incident, prices have collapsed and this would do everything I want. FI I like, watercooling I don't.
MZ500's/Harley MT 500/Rotax engined ex-army : Seem the tool for the job, but no idea what's good and what isn't. Do I hear things about awkward servicing?
Insurance and fuel costs are going to be a big factor as my second bike cover is out of date so I'll be starting at zero.
So, suggestions please on what I should be typing into e-bay and the insurance sites. If you think I should get a Cagiva Elefant, Moto Guzzi or a Harley please say why, there isn't a right answer and I don't care about badges or styling if you think it'll do the job :-\
If you have something for sale, please feel free to add it to the list, but I'm more likely to buy next year rather than next week, so I'm at the thinking stage rather even planning to buy.
Cheers,
Andy
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Until recently I was commuting 40 miles daily on a Suzuki GN250 cruiser style thingy. Not exactly exciting, but it was very reliable, did 70+ mpg and cost very little to run ( except for oil which it liked to drink - normal apparently). It would cruise at 60 mph ish so maybe a bit slow for regular dual carrigeways and not really off road - I always fancied putting the engine in a trail bike frame as it's a cracking torquey little engine.
Otherwise, what about a Honda FMX/SLR 650 single? decent enough bikes but never very popular (not powerful enough) so may be cheap. Proven Honda engine, 50-60ish mpg? reliable - might be worth a look.
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Andy
My MZ Skorpion is pretty hard to knock. Bulletproof engine, parts available (but perhaps slightly restricted, but a man of your calibre will not struggle), and if its standard (mine is a rat, so inventiveness is necessary) it may be even better.
I am however, slightly incredulous at the cost of some parts (if you buy genuine), but I think this is the same for most modern bikes. And good tyres are always dear, ditto chain and sprox. Geniune clutches, etc etc. Levers are cheap! I have been up and down the motorway 2 up all day, with luggage, and while its not very comfy (low bars, high pegs, and a plonked-on dualseat from a ZZR) it has enough power (slightly tuned and too high geared) and always get there.
My 1991 DR650 is a nail, and is rotting, and the engine sounds like a bag of spanners. But its been reliable economical transport for about the last 10,000. Spares I buy 2nd hand on ebay (ie exhaust, 30 quid, switchgear etc). I fully plan to run it till it dies. I suspect this will entail the engine falling out the frame.
Cheers
a
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I reckon you ought to go for the Enfield option, they are an absolutely supah - Dupah machine and will never, ever let you down ;). Actually I believe I saw one for sale on a Motorcycle forum recently, The Thumper Club or some other silly name it had 8)
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Your commute sounds like a carbon copy of mine!!
1. MZ Skorpion traveller or Honda Dullville. (Both very reliable, available at the right prices, often owned by people who actually maintain them and both are capable of good economy)
Or 2. if you can find one cheap enough one of the modern middleweight twins with hard luggage and some sort of fairing.
Having enjoyed the benefits and comfort of lockable luggage I've made a mental note never again to have a commuter/working bike without, and the fairing will be worth its weight in gold when the sleet and spray is slicing into you at 70mph in the dark ;)
You may also want to consider fitting louder horns...
Final tip while I remember, get a hi-viz waistcoat/jacket that is the same pattern as the emergency services, it seems to help on the mornings when the sun is not yet up and half the car drivers are still asleep/can't see out of their misted up / inadequately wiped windscreens. Naff all use when the visibility is normal mind you ::)
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Andy , as you may remember I'm running a 1982 Cb250Rs . My commute is about six miles , most of which is dual carriageway .Mindful that I'm riding a bike that's almost thirty years old ,I don't thrash it in the manner of my first {1986 },but it still pops along at 65 and will easily exceed that . I'm getting somewhere in the region of 60/70 to the gallon . Spares are readily available but some bits are getting rare .A lot is on e-bay{ Although Boyd seems to struggle to buy anything ;D } I have no plans to sell as it's doing exactly what I bought it for . Regular oil changes are a must 1500 miles at the most. However it doesn't need much . Price for a good 'un seems to be between £295 and £595 , depending on the optimism of the seller .
Rob
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Transalp.Mine is 20 years old and is still in very good condition,although it is an Italian import so little winter use here apart from a couple of Dragon Rallies.60mpg given my old fart riding style.Basic engine that lasts forever.Newish ones aint cheap.Easy to work on,the valve clearances are an ar$e but that's all.Will cope with off roading better than I can.
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Andy,
we all would like to love Enfields but they are just too high maintenace IMHO. Look at mine nursed and kissed both of them. Mains gone on one and the other's brakes went to wet shit the moment I cleaned out the dust. Also replaced the clutch plates, generator (still can't race the lights) and gave it a decoke and new head gasket and I am not alone..
If you could control your right hand an MZ would be perfect - but alas ::)
I agree with Andy the 660 MZs are cheap and that mill gives me 60+mpg and sometimes depending on the conditions more again. Parts are not Enfield cheap but there is good back up and when you think you can get a reasonable Skorpion for 600 quid, it's a bit of a no brainer. For under 2K you would get a minter of a Baghira trail or motard. They are a conglomeration of Euro parts anyway so there are always bits that will fit and there is a some very knowledgeable folk out there only too ready to help.
Steffan
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I'd go for a big thumper trailie, either the Dommie or one of the DR's. Good fuel ecconomy (I used to get 60+ to the Gal), enough road presence/speed not to get bullied on busier roads and fairly capable of the odd camping trip too. The sit up riding position is a boost for commuting and the bars go over most wing mirrors. If the trip was all through town then maybe a smaller verion like the DR350, but any long motorway/dual carriage way stints I reckon bigger is best.
As an aside, I'm lovin' shaft driven bikes at the moment. I clock up 13k+ a year and not having to fuss with chains most weekends is great >:( If your thinking along similar lines how about a smaller boxer. The 650 maybe?? Also a guy in work swears by his Moto guzzi V50 though I seem to remember you having issues with that particular mark ???
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While we're chatting ;) to get back to your original list:.. apologies if I abuse anyones pride and joy!
Triumph Bonnevilles/Scramblers: Too expensive, year round commuting will kill the shiny bits, no weather protection
Enfield Bullet. Too slow for dual carriageway commuting, no weather protection
Enfield Bullet Diesel: Being passed in the dark and rain by half asleep heavies doing 65mph at 0700 in the morning whilst you're creeping up to 50mph will wake you up. It will also be one of the most frightening experiences of your (rapidly shortening) life..
C90: As above but less stable :o
125/250 cc Universal Japanese Trail bikes: Still too small for sustained dual carriageway/motorway commuting. You want it to be as pleasant as possible in the circumstances, not the sort of thing you'd do to win a Japanese gameshow!
BMW F650: Why pay that much extra for a tankbadge when so many middleweight thumpers will do everything this will, or nearly?
MZ500's/Harley MT 500/Rotax engined ex-army : MT500 Armstrong: too old, MT350 Harley Davidson not bad (80mph flat but soft tuned so seemed to do it everywhere) but still no weather protection. possibly ok if you add screen, legshields etc etc
Sorry to seem dull but little things will become big disadvantagtes in the depths of winter, you have fun bike/s so this one needs to make life as easy as possible when you're wet cold and just want to go in get a cuppa and warm up. The last thing you want to do is need to go back out and adjust the points/chain/tappets/brakes etc etc etc. Also as you know staying warm and dry can need a bizzare collection of clothes in the worst of UK weather, I imagine you need to arrive at work looking like an employee they might want to keep rather than a refugee from a jumble sale (no offence!). Some sort of weather protection *on* the bike will be a thing that makes you thank me even as the rain soaks through your trousers... ;)
But then you know all this Andy, you just don't want to admit to yourself that you ought to buy a boring bike ;) :D
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cb500?
80mph all day for 200'000 miles if you want. 55mpg at the absolute minimum, and a tank that goes onto reserve at 220 miles. get the twin-shock one for cheaper tyres and parts (not the more modern one). as relibale as a knife and fork and a tidy 10'000 mile one can be had for £1300ish
bullet350
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cb500?
80mph all day for 200'000 miles if you want. 55mpg at the absolute minimum, and a tank that goes onto reserve at 220 miles. get the twin-shock one for cheaper tyres and parts (not the more modern one). as relibale as a knife and fork and a tidy 10'000 mile one can be had for £1300ish
bullet350
Slap an aftermarket full fairing on it, heated grips and a set of lockable panniers and the job's a good un ;) very good choice!
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How about that funny 500 twin off road Kawasaki thing.
EL500 ?
Richard
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Thanks Guys,
All great stuff.
I'll admit I'm a bit anti Honda after what the CB100N cost me in parts, but that was 15 years ago so I should get over it now. The Guzzi (and BMW Airheads) I'd need convincing about, they seem to be pretty elderly classics that have the needs of the Bullet but not the parts. Newer Guzzi's I won't touch with a long pole, we are now 12 weeks into getting Dad's Nevada an MOT and it's still off the road. Tappets I'll do, sump off to change the oil is insane and even worse when the gaskets take three weeks to arrive and a disk eight!
Steffan is right about the MZ. I could be very tempted to buy yet another one (as a second spare!) and try to get the lead weights out of my right elbow. Not sure "Dear, I need a lift to pick up another blue smoker" will go down too well indoors! Need to have a chat with the MZ boys, see what bits from ETZ 250's will fit the 251/Saxon/Kanuni's.
Weather protection doesn't really worry me. I've ridden naked bikes in bad weather and am pretty used to it. The job is mostly jeans and a logo'd shirt (and I'll be boss on most days), so there won't be any hassle with rain suits etc. Fairings always strike me as something you break when you fall off and something to remove to get at the bits.
The Kawasaki's are interesting. I should have added the ER-5 to my list. Dad had one before the Guzzi and it was very good. Now a KLR type thing with that motor, that'd be on the list.
Keep 'em comming ;D
Andy
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Where did you go for the Guzzi gaskets? I ordered some parts for my T3 and for a friends V50 the other week from Corsa Italia and from Moto Mecca and they both delivered within 2 days. You only have to drop the sump every other oil change to swap the filter over by the way, Am I biased towards Guzzi's, afraid so but we all have our foibles! How about a 600 Divi or Honda NTV650,Gs500, 600 Bandit? loads about and cheap bits, should easily do the commute, uninspiring admittedly but if you're looking for a ride to work hack I wouldn't go for anything shiney, pretty or obscure.
Jez
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Cat amongst the pidgeons
An 883 Sportster.
Top end of your budget, won't green lane(very well) and you'll have to plaster it in protective spray to stop it rotting.
100% reliable, cheap and easy to maintain, cheap tyres, belt drive(never needs adjusting) fun to ride(honest), easy to get parts not that you'll need any. Get more back in ten years than you'll pay for it.
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Nobody's mentioned the hack that I'm working on for my coming trip!
The CB500!!! just think of the reasons why I decided on it! (apart from the fact I already owned it!)
decent s/h price / zillion miles to gallon / plenty of ooomph! / comfy / indestructable engine / cheap parts (in fact I'm using a lot of non Honda bits lying around my sheds to re-build mine)
& this one will be doing a little off roading too! (will get back to you on that one!)
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Getting a bit long in the tooth but a K series BMW would be my choice.
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Cat amongst the pidgeons
An 883 Sportster.
No real argument here. If the dealer had been a normal human being instead of a corporate lifestyle ****wit spouting garbage about upgrades to 1200cc when I've had some practice (I'd only been riding 9 years!), and free gunk to preserve the petrol in the "closed season" (is Harley petrol made from Grouses of something? Not available after August?), there would be an 883 in my garage now. The test ride had me looking for the cheque book, the sales idiot talked himself out of it. I thought that if they couldn't tell the difference between a bloke on a Yamaha XT who rode in wearing scruffy ex-MOD kit and asked about fuel range from the customers who arrived by car in business suits and asked about leather lined panniers, they'd be useless when I broke something mechanical in January.
For Harley money I can get another Bonneville and always be able to make one good one out of the pair. The daft salesman I suppose could now (or in a month or six) be said to have lost them two sales!
CB500 is on the list with the ER5. BM K-series I'd need to do numbers on, petrol cost versus insurance. The K75 appeals more than the K100/1100, but we do have Motorworks just up the road.
Thanks Guys
Andy
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BMW K-series I'd need to do numbers on, petrol cost versus insurance. The K75 appeals more than the K100/1100, but we do have Motorworks just up the road.
I had a K75S some time ago and was quite impressed with it. I used to get 50mpg and its worth factoring in tyres into your costs, they are quite narrow and hence much cheaper than most modern tackle.
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SV650, cheap and fairly economical, I'm getting 50+mpg. Not too sure on tyre life as I havent ridden it enough yet :-\
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wm20 bsa, its that classic look and the girder forks that do it for me every time!
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The Honda Deauville was built for that job - shaft drive, decent weather protection, comfy seat, built-in luggage, reliable. Had mine for 10 years and it never let me down.
If I was buying a bike for a regular commute again I'd have no hesitation in buying another.
I do still commute on two wheels from time to time, however this is what I built at the weekend for that job (mixed on & off-road commute):
(http://www.pbase.com/niblue/image/116681036/original.jpg)
It's got a rack on it now but still needs mudguards (proven by a very wet commute on it this morning)!
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If you can overcome the watercooling thing then a BMW K100 is the perfect machine for commuting.
You'll get a weeks transport out of one tank too - a grand would get agood un , £1500 a minter.
Steve
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Just got shot of a k100rs great on the motorways did a 1000miles a month on it but took it up the snake pass earlier this year and corners and k100s dont mix. Don't get me wrong it wasn't dangerous but just hard work. In short I didn't fall in love with it and considered it just a mode of transport.
It did get me out of a cash fund problem so I wouldn't knock. Sold it and got a 1000 fazer much better to ride but motorways are a bit of a bind with just a 1/2 fairing compared with k100.
The srx was just being destroyed with 120 miles of motorway a day, horses for courses.
The trouble with older bikes and reliable transport is that little things always seem to be going wrong. If you dont mind higher maintenance no problem. In my case 60 plus hours of work 10 hours traveling a week didn't leave time for fixing older bikes.
beeman
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The Honda Deauville was built for that job - shaft drive, decent weather protection, comfy seat, built-in luggage, reliable. Had mine for 10 years and it never let me down.
If I was buying a bike for a regular commute again I'd have no hesitation in buying another.
I do still commute on two wheels from time to time, however this is what I built at the weekend for that job (mixed on & off-road commute):
(http://www.pbase.com/niblue/image/116681036/original.jpg)
It's got a rack on it now but still needs mudguards (proven by a very wet commute on it this morning)!
The mountain bike's a good idea! But it obviously struggles to get through the narrow gaps!!!!!!!!!
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Was cycling with No1 son the other day and trying to learn how to bunny hop, got it a little wrong, landed on the nose of the saddle, snapped the saddle jabbed myself in the bum and had to ride home with a bust saddle etc.
Oh bugger - I forgot to say it was my lovely B17 Brooks too.
Sulk
R
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It's got a rack on it now but still needs mudguards (proven by a very wet commute on it this morning)!
Off topic a bit, but what waterproofs do you use off road ?. My current jacket is waterproof but doesnt breath too well.
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The mountain bike's a good idea! But it obviously struggles to get through the narrow gaps!!!!!!!!!
The bike fits through that gap no problem - it's just me that struggles to fit...
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Oh bugger - I forgot to say it was my lovely B17 Brooks too.
The worst thing about that is just how long it will take to break another one in.
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Off topic a bit, but what waterproofs do you use off road ?. My current jacket is waterproof but doesnt breath too well.
I use an Altura Nightvision if it's really wet, or a Montane Featherlight if it's just showery. Neither is all that great a balance between waterproofing and breathability. Something in Goretex Paclite or eVent fabric would be better, but I'm not sure anything will be breathable enough to cope with cycling.
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Oh bugger - I forgot to say it was my lovely B17 Brooks too.
The worst thing about that is just how long it will take to break another one in.
Tat is a myth, Brooks saddles do not break in, you do... ;D
Tis one I fitted the day before the London Brighton - did not know they were supposed to need bedding in at the time, an I think I was the only one not walking like John Wayne at the end of the day. So I was lucky or have a hard arse
Will have to start lking on evilbay or the like for a deal on a new one.
I will not buy a Ti one, I will not buy a Ti one, I will not buy a Ti one, I will not buy a Ti one, I will not buy a Ti one...
R
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Steffan wins!
Things moved rather faster than expected, the FrankenZed (don't ask) is ill (but still fired up third kick after a year off) and I just picked up a 301 Saxon Tour with only 8000 km on the clock plus seven months MOT on E-bay ;D
The plan is to have enough bits to keep one blue smoker is service 24/7/365.
Thanks for the suggestions though.
Any idea how I teach myself that just because it'll do 75 you don't have to?
Andy
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Excellent, you know it makes sense.
You could always leave some slack in the throttle cable if you really can't help yourself.
I really should get an MZ running myself, lord knows I have enough bits.
Richard
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Oh don't do that, I have been comforting myself that you are only minding a bottomless supply of spares for my MZ ;D
Seriously though - it is about time. Did I send you that loom?
Steffan
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Andy, you could always insert a false stop into the top of the carb or on the throttle end. On the other hand you could just have a motor ready to go on the bench and take your chances. With the MZ-b system a couple of dedicated hours would have you going again.
Steffan