Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: guest7 on March 05, 2009, 09:56:50 PM
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I was speaking to a club member earlier and he said that he was interested in the new Enfield EFI
(http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/uploadedImages/articles/issues/2009-01-01/Sidecar2_resized400X266.jpg)
Have any of you ridden one yet or heard anything (good or bad) about it?
Apparently they are claiming 80mph and 80mpg.
GC
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I've seen a few pictures & reviews in the mags and am oddly attracted by the idea of getting one.
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I was the club member in question. You beat me to it Graham!
Now it might be a sign of me getting older, feeling nostalgic, and so on, but I found myself browsing the Royal Enfield site the other day and see that they've just launched a new EFI model.
Although my DR has served me well, it is getting a little tired now (mainly through neglect and just in time maintenance!) and I got thinking about what I could replace it with. The new XTs look great, but as with the DR, they're a bit tall for my short legs, and I think it would take a bit of getting used with its futuristic transformer looks. (Says he who also has a KTM Duke II!; On todays POTD as it happens).
There doesn't appear to me to be many current model bikes that I feel would make a good all rounder without being too expensive/complicated/heavy. I seem to find myself always looking at bikes 10+ years old. Why do commuters have to be 125cc, or have a de-tuned 600/1000cc sportsbike engine in it?
I think what I'm looking for as a replacement needs has some or all of the following criteria:
- Dependable
- Can cruise at motorway speeds
- Comfortable on long distance trips
- Good MPG
- Cheap insurance
- Cheap/easy to service
- Push start (ideally with a kickstart as backup)
- Not too tall
- Good luggage carrying capability
- Will take knobbly tyres
- Light enough to pick up if it goes over
- Nice to look at
On paper the new EFI model seems to tick a lot of boxes, top speed of around 80mph, 70 odd MPG, and so on. I'd be interested in peoples opinions on Royal Enfields.
The sort of questions I have are:
Are they reliable? Is 27HP enough to keep up with modern traffic? Is the single saddle comfier than the standard seat? What's the build quality like?
Simon
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Based on an 18hp 5-speed:
18hp is enough to keep up with traffic, it's the cooling/mixture control that stops the old engine doing motorways in comfort.
Single saddle is no different to a dual seat, possibly cooler in summer though. I like the one on the Triumph.
Only issues I had was a wiring fault in the headlight shell (fixed in two minutes) and a series of broken clutch cables due to a badly fitting lever which I believe they fixed. Steffan managed to get odd noises out of the engine, but I'll let him comment further.
I hear the EFI solved all these. I'd give one garage space soon after I've picked the right five or six numbers.
Andy
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Simon , with regard to reliability , this model is a bit of an unknown quantity at the moment . I suspect that peoples opiions will come from the earlier ,pre efi ,models .For interests sake , can I suggest that you have a look at a website called '60kph'. This an Indian site relating to a riders club in India . Lots of good travelogue type of stuff and a lot of techy stuff . There may be some insight there . These guys cover some decent mileage and the website is lovely to look at anyway.
Rob .
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This is a new beast and therefore different from the old ones, even the new old ones but I would suggest that if you have killed a DR from neglect then a RE is not for you. I am convinced that they are, or can be reliable although like the MZ 2t they are not as fast as people like to think. Well not reliably so. That said the reliability depends on a higher level of attention that you would give a Jap single like a DR, XT, XTZ etc. They are a lot (LOT) of fun and are good at carrying loads - somewhat surprisingly. Parts for the old ones are cheap cheap cheap. All that said I baby-ed mine and it still did the bigend in Ireland. As for these new ones, it will be a case of suck it and see.
What I would say about RobG's comment is that it is good advice but remember they will be riding "old" ones or the new old ones and not the UCE above. Also if you watch some of their video clips or the films Solo to the Top of the World or One Crazy Ride, the overwhelming feature is that their motors never work as hard as we work ours over here. You never hear them revved hard or even busy.
Just my 2P worth
Steffan
PS You are welcome to come and try out the black beast or once it is repaired the green machine ( which I plan to take to Morocco) if you would like - just drop me line.
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Well I have heard various stories re the actual power output, if it is 27hp then I'm just about convinced. If its closer to 18 then I'm not.
I also remain to be convinced on the actual cruising speed ability. 75 mph cruising is plenty, 55 isn't.
My MZs managed quite well on about 21 hp but they were also carrying a lot less weight. Using top whack as a cruising speed didn't mean breaking an engine but it also didn't do much for the fuel economy. I reckon you could cruise a modern CBR600 or something at Enfield speeds and achieve much the same economy as the Enfield - but keep the crank within the cases.
I was also a bit surprised when taking out Steves engine at just how bloody fiddly it was for such a simple design. Never seen so many nooks, crannies and brackets. I am so not looking forward to putting it back in.
Richard
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Not as much as I am not old friend :-[
Steffan
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MZ's have really spoilt you two! Compare the 4 bolts that keep the motor in an MZ with pictures of getting the bike from round the engine on a BM oilhead and you'll stop worrying about even the Bullet!
Andy
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But why would I ever want to take the engine out of an airhead ?
Gearbox, yes, but engine, never. I can even remove the crank without moving the cases, not to mention everything else.
I've got the gearbox down to a fairly fine art, which is just as well as I have to shfit it back to lubricate the clutch splines annually.
MZs are truly clever and designed rather than evolved. A wonderful example of communist engineering at its best.
(Does that move this debate to the Rant section then ?)
Richard
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Steffan,
I haven't quite killed the DR yet, but I'm finding it takes much more of my time than I'd like to keep on top of things.
Would you say an Enfield is more of an "enthusiasts" bike? I had a Lada once that I'd class as an enthusiasts car, as I was forever having to sort out niggly little things to keep it working properly. I guess some people might term this as having character. Once you got used to it's little quirks it wasn't so bad. Just a little annoying to not be able to consistently jump into it and it would just work every time.
Had a quick look around the 60kph site. Lovely site, but haven't found anything on the EFI model yet. I gather the EFI model is currently only being sold into the European market as it as the new engine was built to pass the latest European emmissions laws. I don't think it is being sold in India yet.
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Don't knock Ladas. Brilliant motors. Most of the taxi firms in Cardiff used them, painted black and white for some bizarre reason.
Reliable, brilliant winter starters, huge boots, awesomely heavy steering. I'd have a Niva now if they were still about.
Richard
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Steffan,
I haven't quite killed the DR yet, but I'm finding it takes much more of my time than I'd like to keep on top of things.
Would you say an Enfield is more of an "enthusiasts" bike?
When I had the Bullet I did very little once the carb was set up as I liked it except change the oil. The current bullet crowd are fiddlers (sorry Steffan, no offence intended) for the simple reason the stock non-EFI bullet can be turned from an 18HP plodder into a 30hp racer. You'd see people on the yahoo group asking how soon after they got the bike could they rebuild it with samrat rockers and goodness knows whate else, which to me suggested they'd have done better buying something with a Rotax engine or a Bonneville. If the EFI already puts out 25+ HP, why fiddle?
What I think you need to know is the service schedule. If you are happy with 3000 oil changes that involve draining a timing chest and refilling it with an oil can and so on, you'll be fine. If you want 6000 mile, two nuts and a filter changes, you want the Bonneville or similar.
Andy
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None taken. I have since adopted a minimum fiddle policy.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Steffan
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None taken. I have since adopted a minimum fiddle policy.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Steffan
Yes ! Stop Bloody Fiddling !
There was nothing wrong with it when you had it....!!!
I told you there was a Knack to it !
I bet you have gone and polished something on it aswell !
Went alright for me...popped along quietly at a reasonable pace...but you had to fiddle.
Change the carb,muck about with the points,change the exhaust....couldnt leave well alone ;D ;D ;D ;D
Jethro
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Article on new Enfield EFI in the April 2009, Motorcycle Sport and Leisure, if any body is interested? I haven't had time to read or plagiarise [BSH] it yet. ;)
Toodle pip, Bill.
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Article on new Enfield EFI in the April 2009, Motorcycle Sport and Leisure, if any body is interested? I haven't had time to read or plagiarise [BSH] it yet. ;)
Toodle pip, Bill.
Or Clone yourself !!!! :D
Jethro
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Aye Jethro,
Can't get the funding these days, unless you're a banker! ;)
Baaa, 'Dolly'
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Yes ! Stop Bloody Fiddling !
There was nothing wrong with it when you had it....!!!
Went alright for me...popped along quietly at a reasonable pace...but you had to fiddle.
Change the carb,muck about with the points,change the exhaust....couldnt leave well alone ;D ;D ;D ;D
[/quote]
I seem to recall a certain 500 Enfield that was alright 'til fiddled with ;)
Didn't you change the carb ,muck aboout with the points,change the exhaust , couldn't leave well alone ,,even changed the big end so i recall {twice ? }
If we all quiet we can hear a pot refering to the kettle ..................................... ;)
Rib
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Yes ! Stop Bloody Fiddling !
There was nothing wrong with it when you had it....!!!
Went alright for me...popped along quietly at a reasonable pace...but you had to fiddle.
Change the carb,muck about with the points,change the exhaust....couldnt leave well alone ;D ;D ;D ;D
I seem to recall a certain 500 Enfield that was alright 'til fiddled with ;)
Didn't you change the carb ,muck aboout with the points,change the exhaust , couldn't leave well alone ,,even changed the big end so i recall {twice ? }
If we all quiet we can hear a pot refering to the kettle ..................................... ;)
Rib
[/quote]
The Big end job was on the first one many moons ago !
And yes the carb got changed due to not running correctly after rebuild.
It wasnt the carb at fault it was the Brand New Boyer electronic ignition.
Replaced with the old points ran perfectly. :P :P
Jethro
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Ah yes ,I knew it was straight forward . :D
Not withstanding the unknown quantity of the EFI, the model I would go for has to be the Military job as per our own , our very own Steffan.
for your information Simon , Midlands Royal Enfield based in Shrewsbury have an open day on 17th May . I know you can get a run at any dealer,probably closer to you, before then , but it may be worth keeping this in your diary .
Rop.
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To go off on a tangent (and given recent form I am doing this with trepidation), I was reminded of a game I used to play with a group of workmates, via email in the late 90s.
We used to change song titles to include British place names. What reminded me of it was my wife's prize-winning suggestion, 'Bohemian Shrewsbury' ;D
Other good 'uns were:
Wirral without you (U2)
Swindon Neath my wings (Bette Midler)
Don't look back in Ongar (Oasis)
Now I've served the (metaphorical) shot, will anyone return? British place names are preferred, but foreign names accepted if the standard is high enough ;)
GC
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Stoke On the Water
...sorry
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Highway to Hull
...really sorry.
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Is this your coat?
;D
GC
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Total eclipse of Penarth
I'll get my coat too whilst I'm there...
GC
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If we all quiet we can hear a pot refering to the kettle ..................................... ;)
Hmmm... I have to say, when Jethro popped up talking about fiddling with Enfields, I was sure I wasn't going to the be only person casting their mind back to many pub conversations about how this or that latest Enfield modification was or wasn't working well. ;)
(http://www.thumperclub.com/photos/2003/thumperweekend_2003_1_1.jpg)
Mind you, the Dark Beast™ seemed to run better than the shiny red 500 Bullet that preceded it. It belted along like a good 'un after that troublesome Boyer system was binned.
GC
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All the way from Merthyr ........Mott the Hoople
Rhayader white swan .............Marc Bolan/Trex .
Up around the Bridgend ..........Creedence Clearwater Revival
Strange Kind of Wrexham .......Deep Purple .
All the young Dudley .............Mott the Hoople
Bridge over Trowbridge..........Simon and Garfunkel
Born on the wrong side of Telford ....Taste
Romney Wild Child....................Iggy Pop .
Parracombe Walkways..............Gary Moore /Phil lynott .
.....coat and hat on ..................................
Tob .
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All the young Dudley .............Mott the Hoople
Will someone please explain the game to him? ::) :D
If it hadn't been for the masterful 'Rhayader white swan', we might have been looking for a two week suspension of Mess privileges and a nasty chat from the CO.
GC
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Why? You started it! >:(
And how can a discussion about enfields bring to mind an email game about song titles????
;D
Steffan
PS: the black beast runs fine and starts OK too so long as you wake it gently first.
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And how can a discussion about enfields bring to mind an email game about song titles????
Steffan
It was Tob's message:
for your information Simon , Midlands Royal Enfield based in Shrewsbury have...
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Hmmm... I have to say, when Jethro popped up talking about fiddling with Enfields, I was sure I wasn't going to the be only person casting their mind back to many pub conversations about how this or that latest Enfield modification was or wasn't working well. ;)
Mind you, the Dark Beast™ seemed to run better than the shiny red 500 Bullet that preceded it. It belted along like a good 'un after that troublesome Boyer system was binned.
Well MY excuse Iiiissss !
It was bought totally knackered....yes I rebuilt it completely adding a few modifications from standard along
the way. Unfortunately quite a few to contend with all at once.
And it did take a little while to iron out the bugs !
BUT once sorted was/is quite an experiance to ride ;D ;D.
Jethro
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Thanks for all the info guys. I think I'll nip out lunch time to grab a copy of MSL. My nearest RE dealer seems to be in Didcot, which is just around the corner (and a lovely blat from Reading, especially on the KTM!).
The new EFI could definitely be a contender for replacing the DR. Will probably hold out until they get into the secondhand market, by which time we should also have an idea on their reliability.
Dragged the DR out of the garage from which it had stood since the Dragon and gave a quick rinse down with the hosepipe.
A few minor jobs need doing on it, but with the weather getting better plenty of time to sort them out whilst I use the KTM.
Still at least another Tauerntreffen/Dragon in her I hope!
Now, what else is out there that could be considered agood winter rally bike? ....
Simon
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Now, what else is out there that could be considered agood winter rally bike? ....
I half fancy a Bonneville Scrambler to complement the outfit. Now with EFI, so no mucking about with jets and diaphragms and all that malarky. The Bonneville as I had it was very good on snow until it got to the point where the road tyres wouldn't shift it. The Knobblies on the scrambler should solve that. Trouble is they are holding their value.
There also seem to a company doing Bullet Diesels again. Search on E-bay, they use a 400cc motor. Now that is very tempting but again too much cash.
To be honest as a pure winter rallies solo I don't think you'll beat the DR. Is throwing some cash at it the solution, or is the seat height unfixable?
Andy
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Re:Diesel Enfields
There is a fella over Stroud way doing them with a Chinese copy of a Japanese Staionary engine.
Price Parts I think it is called.
MMMmmmm ! Might be something to think on now that I will once more be commuting 30-40mile a day back and forth to Cardiff.
Jethro
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You could have home brew diesel .
Rap
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Home brew diesel
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not again.. ;D
R
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Straight sunflower in as a 10% - 20% mix with mineral is, I am told, fine. Not to greedy, yet still saves a bob or two! :-X
Nice aroma ;D
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To be honest as a pure winter rallies solo I don't think you'll beat the DR. Is throwing some cash at it the solution, or is the seat height unfixable?
Those were my thoughts too, but Simon seems to have the solitary model of DR that uses a cast wishbone suspension linkage rather than easy-to-shorten dogbones.
There must be a way of dropping it (apart from attempting u-turns on autobahn sliproads eh simon? ;))
I can see Simon getting ticked off at the lack of pace of the Enfield. This is a bloke who rode to just short of the Elefant rally in one day.
GC
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You could have home brew diesel .
Rap
I now own a diesel van and my dad owns a greasy spoon caff. Am I missing a trick here?
GC
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This is a bloke who rode to just short of the Elefant rally in one day.
That was 2007. It was dark, I had a broken headlight (didn't realise at the time) and it had started snowing on the autobahn again, so I decided to pull over on seeing an hotel sign. Bit annoying as I was so close, with around a 100 miles to go.
Last year I managed to do it door to door in a day. Left the house just after 3am and got to the rally site around 7pm (local time). 783 miles according to the sat nav. Longest day I've ever done! The weather was mild last year though.
Don't think I'll do the "Eleffant in a day" thing again though. It was mainly something I wanted to try. Much more pleasant to do it at a more leisurely pace. Perhaps on somehting like an Enfield!
As long as I can cruise around 70, I'd be happy.
Simon
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Well in that case forget the name Royal Enfield. I cannot speak about the new UCE but the old ones would require a great deal of money to cruise at 70 and you'd better have shares in loctite..no better still lock wire or you will be back tracking to pick up half the bike in bits. 60mph even a bit more is achievable but 70 for 15 hours - I don't think so.
If I were you, I would try a Bullet first, try several, I think GC has the measure of the situation myself...
Steffan
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Well in that case forget the name Royal Enfield. I cannot speak about the new UCE but the old ones would require a great deal of money to cruise at 70 and you'd better have shares in loctite..no better still lock wire or you will be back tracking to pick up half the bike in bits. 60mph even a bit more is achievable but 70 for 15 hours - I don't think so.
If I were you, I would try a Bullet first, try several, I think GC has the measure of the situation myself...
Steffan
Thanks for that. I appreciate that the older Enfields would not be suitable, but with a claimed top speed of 80 for the new UCE Bullet, cruising at 70 seems feasible. Not stressing the engine too much by being on the stop, yet able to keep up with traffic on the motorway, were my thoughts.
I'm keen to understand the nature of the pre UCE bikes, especially with regard to built quality, comfort, etc. It seems from what you're saying though, they are a little fragile and need a lot of looking after.
I appreciate singles shake a lot, and from experience, I use copious amounts of loctite on both the DR and the KTM. I must admit, the DR with it's balancer shaft, is a very smooth engine, unlike the KTM's LC4.
Looks like I'm destined to either keep the DR indefinitely or having to replace it with another too tall Japanese machine! Or maybe start looking closer at twins ;)
Simon
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"Those were my thoughts too, but Simon seems to have the solitary model of DR that uses a cast wishbone suspension linkage rather than easy-to-shorten dogbones." I don't know how to put GC's quote in a little box
I think that the wisbone is forged rather than cast. Either way I had the wishbone on Steve's old DR 750 lengthened by 10mm. a local welder just cut it in two and welded a piece in, dropped the rear end by @ 40mm. I'm thinking of making the wishbone even longer but am concerned @ the rear wheel clearing the underside of the seat on full compression of the rear shock.
If Simon wants to see the result contact me on srxistatblueyonderdotcodotuk
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Sorry Simon,
It wasn't my intention to try to teach you to suck eggs :-[
Have you considered the 660 MZs the Baghira does well as a motard or trail and the wishbones can be lengthened - frequently on ebay. Just a thought.
Steffan
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Sorry Simon,
It wasn't my intention to try to teach you to suck eggs :-[
Have you considered the 660 MZs the Baghira does well as a motard or trail and the wishbones can be lengthened - frequently on ebay. Just a thought.
Steffan
No problem! ;D
I had thought about the Baghira and have had a few discussions with Smudge about his Mastiff. I'd always dismissed the Baghira because of its seat height, but I didn't realise it was possible to lower it. The 660 engine seems to have the pedigree in terms of power and reliability.
Off to Ebay to have a look around!
Perhaps we should start a new thread called perfect single cylinder rally bike!
Simon
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I'm keen to understand the nature of the pre UCE bikes, especially with regard to built quality, comfort, etc. It seems from what you're saying though, they are a little fragile and need a lot of looking after.
The limiting factor in the old design is the metallurgy and as a result the tolerances and finishes and the choices they made in the lubrication. It's stuff they couldn't change on an Indian design budget of the 1980's. There are bits of sand cast iron and bronze and brass in there with cast surfaces and not enough oil. Hence, you get 500cc's making 18 hp tops and only able to maintain that for short periods. The standard Bullet's cruising speed is something in the order of 55 mph while top speed is something over 70, a much bigger differential than a modern bike. By the same reasoning as roughly made bits move about you'll have constant adjustments to make. It's nothing like as much as the owners club people like to talk about though, they are into adjusting pushrods as much as riding so you don't IMHO get the full picture.
Quality wise I found very little wrong with them, certainly better than a Ural. Comfort wise I think it's about as good as it gets.
If the EFI is a blank paper design as it seems to be, there is no reason it won't be able to put out 25 hp all day for a long time and hence cruise at 70. It'll have machining tolerances and materials that would have looked like science fiction in 1948. The worry to me is that they've cut corners and used bits of the previous motor. The fact it's unit construction to me suggests it is a totally new design though. The 5-speed gearbox they introduced was a bit of a practical engineering masterpiece, I just hope they applied the same ideas to the new motor.
I'd let someone else put a few thousand miles on one first and see how it fares though.
Andy
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I'd let someone else put a few thousand miles on one first and see how it fares though.
Indeed! Akin to never buying version 1.0 of a software application. Let someone else iron out the bugs!
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This is indeed why I got the XT660Z, 700 smiles now and I've adjusted the chain once, oh and put fuel in it, oh and I've just adjusted the clutch cable a bit! :)
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This is indeed why I got the XT660Z, 700 smiles now and I've adjusted the chain once, oh and put fuel in it, oh and I've just adjusted the clutch cable a bit! :)
Are you saying you've only done 700 miles since you got the XT?? You have been quiet ;)
When I insured the VX I estimated annual mileage at 15K.
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700 miles and you've had to adjust the chain already !!
Buy an MZ immediately, or a Guzzi.
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2T of course.
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2T of course.
2t?!? :o I think you'll find that chainsaws and scooters go rangdang dang and motorcycles go BRAAAAAP! ;) :P ;D
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This is indeed why I got the XT660Z, 700 smiles now and I've adjusted the chain once, oh and put fuel in it, oh and I've just adjusted the clutch cable a bit! :)
You mean to say that you do this sort of thing yourself ? I get a chap in for that sort of thing ,far too busy. As for the fuel , once the thing is empty one simply buys a new one .
Come ,come now Steven .
Lord Rob .
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Ooooops meant to say 7000 miles, trouble free and frugal @60mpg.
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Now that's more like it ;D
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Hi Simon,
There is a short write up on the 500 EFI in this months Motorcycle Sport & Leisure if you're interested. They seemed to think it was pretty good. They said it got to 70 mph fairly quickly, but wether it would sustain that speed I wouldn't like to say.
Steve C
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Hi Simon,
There is a short write up on the 500 EFI in this months Motorcycle Sport & Leisure if you're interested. They seemed to think it was pretty good. They said it got to 70 mph fairly quickly, but wether it would sustain that speed I wouldn't like to say.
Steve C
Thanks Steve. I think Bill might have mentioned this as well.
Coincidentally, I'm just reading an article in the March issue that caught my eye, about a trip on Bullet 500s (pre Electra/EFI) to the highest road on the planet in Nepal. Part 2 of the article is in the April issue.
Two good reasons to get it now!
Simon
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I'm just reading an article in the March issue that caught my eye, about a trip on Bullet 500s (pre Electra/EFI) to the highest road on the planet in Nepal.
Isn't that the road that the bloke rides in the film 'Solo to the Top of the World'?
I have to say that we really should go there one day. I reckon it has to be feasible to fly to India, buy a bike and ride the damn thing up there. Sell the bike after the ride and fly out again.
GC
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Its a bit ambitious for the annual rally though ;D
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Ahhh! Raj Thumper 2012 .
I like it !
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I have to say that we really should go there one day. I reckon it has to be feasible to fly to India, buy a bike and ride the damn thing up there. Sell the bike after the ride and fly out again.
GC
Its feasable, there is a small cottage industry in flogging dodgy old or preferably ( equally dodgy) brand new India market Enfields to foreigners. Selling it again there might be a problem, getting there can cost £300 or less.
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Its a bit ambitious for the annual rally though ;D
Mmmm maybe a week camping trip?
R
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Weak camping trip ?
Anyway , just spent some time looking over one of the new Enfield Classics at the local cafe this morning . It really does look very nice and will pull from 30 in top ,so I was told . I was quite suprised by how nice it did look .
However the proof will be in the ride .
Rob .
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Simon, I saw one of those nice little CCM flatracker/streetscrambler bikes the other day, they like ideal for your needs, but is 400cc too little for your globe-trotting ambitions?
(http://www.ccmmotorcyclesuk.com/images/stories/sr40_large.png) (http://www.ccmmotorcyclesuk.com/images/stories/ft35s-large.png)
GC
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I love the SR, tank too small and no luggage capacity, but right nonetheless what motor are they using these day?
Steffan
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The latest CCM are using the DR400 engine.I think it is the Enduro engine,so therefore a little more lively than the standard DR motor.
Performance wise it would be quicker than an Enfield,and with Simons track record would need less maintenance.
And no dig intended !!!
Jethro
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Quite frankly a load of crap. When they first came out I inctited them to our annual rally at Dent and they let me down, what with free advertising and the such. Overpriced and not very travel orientated, there are more obvious alternatives. >:(
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To go down another route, surely a well restored (or well-looked after) XT500 would be a nice option? I get the impression they are very reliable and easy to live with.
The looks are lovely too:
(http://analienearthling.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/yamaha-xt500-77-4.jpg?w=400&h=300)
I know they are an old bike, but surely a good 'un would be up to the job?
GC
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Sorry GC , I would disagree . Nice photo of an XT mind you . I think it's the first model , XT500d circa '76 ,but I stand to be corrected .I took one of these to the TT in '87.Only one with a low level pipe I think. Any how ,having lived with a couple of XT's they can be tempermental if not looked after and they will bite you if you turn your back . I know of a number of incidents that have sent people hopping to casualty .{I just went on the sick for five days with a bruised shin }
They are happy to run all day 60/65 but are more of a traditional single so if you expect it to run above that for long periods then I would venture this is not the right bike.Yes I know people have and still ventured all over the world on these ,but not without regular tinkering.
Don't get me wrong I loved my time on an XT ,and would gladly have another .However for what Simon wants,I personally don't think an Xt 500 is the answer .Besides ,there are a lot of people out there ,with these ,who think they are sat on a nice little earner . The reality is an overpriced pile of tat .The oldest of these is coming up to 34/35 yrs old now and an old bike is only as good as the previous owners.
Why not a bonnie scrambler ? {Alright one pot too many ,but.............}
Rob .
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Dont forget the XT is 6volt and with all the Gubbings that Simon would want to run a 12volt conversion would not kick out enough juice to run it all.
Jethro
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The funny thing is, given all his requirements, what he actually needs is a DR650 that is a bit lower. However (and I hope you don't mind me repeating this Simon) I talked to him about altering his linkage and he's worried about doing it for two reasons:
1. insurance
2. the chance of the part failing
It's a conumdrum. I can't think of much else that would be suitable made in the last few years.
Mind you, if he can find an Enfield rolling chassis, I can give him an XBR engine (and all the ancilleries) to transplant into it ;)
GC
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Xt 660 as in Steve D , Mt03 if seat height is an issue ?
What do you think ?
Rob
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1. insurance
2. the chance of the part failing
1. I wouldnt worry about insurance..! In my experiance not many,if any,insurance people would notice the differance.Or Plod for that matter.
2. There are several companies out there making lowering kits.Mind I have come across genuine factory parts failing,you pays yer mony and takes yer chance.
OR....Get a decent bit of material and make your own ! If needs be with the aid of a friendly engineer.
Jethro
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Why not a bonnie scrambler ? {Alright one pot too many ,but.............}
Prices are mad and that exhaust plus the 270 degree engine costs you 10HP. Probably better to get a Bonneville black and buy your own exhaust and knobblies. 99% of Scrambler accessories fit the Black, so bash plates and so on are no problem.
Andy
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How come the 270 costs 10bhp? I thought the idea behind the 270 crank was to allow better balance and thus get rid of any balance shafts etc - has the balance of a 90° twin?
Is it actually a softer engine?
Tying back to the "if I had more money than sense" thread, I have oft thought if I were to get my Triton running a Norish 270° engine would be nice.
R
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The 270 engine is there to make it feel more like a Harley to cruiser riders on the America. In itself I didn't think it was detrimental. What they seem to have done then is set up the fueling or timing or something to give it a rougher feel and that results in less power. The 360 engine as you'd expect is more like a two-stroke single in that it will rev. Put the America engine set up with that high level exhaust and you loose 10 HP. You can cure it no doubt, but would be chipping/jetting putting a new exhaust on.
The Bonneville Black I have would cruise two up for the whole (poxy) tank range at 80 mph plus straight out of the dealers. It was fine in lane three of the M-1 or M-62 on a Friday night when shall we say the traffic moves. The Scrambler they lent me had a rather anti-social set of pipe, K&N filter and the like and didn't want to play on the motorway full stop. There wasn't enough left to make it worth doing more than picking a group of vehicles obeying the speed limit or less and sticking with them. The mechanic said that was a big improvement over the stock Scrambler.
I've ridden the Black on mud with and without knobblies and took the Scrambler up a few short tracks while I had it. IMHO there is nowhere the Scrambler will go that the Black won't so long as you don't mind the odd ding in the exhaust (which will in any case rot before your eyes and need replacing before the first MOT).
Hence, IMHO you are better off Scramblerising a Black at your leisure than buying what's really a dress up job from Triumph that wants mechanical mods.
Andy
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Having worked on all of the carb. equiped range of Bonnies I feel that it is the Exhaust that saps 10hp from the motor.
Those tight bends straight out of the head are to blame.
The same engine in the Speedmaster,also 270 crank and 860cc,has a lot more torque and poke.
The Scrambler is quite soft compared to the rest.
Jethro