Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: Bill Rutter on July 16, 2008, 01:50:21 PM
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Remember her post about "going off to join a club that wants her as a member"? It was in a thread about the Annual Rally. Anyway, it got me thinking. These days there doesn't appear to be much going on as far as TC events go. Apart from Weston in June (which although good wasn't as well attended as previous rallies) there is nothing on the horizon for the rest of 2008 (Colin Hilliard and Terry Lee are recce-ing sites in Dorset in September with a view to a meet in 2009 - I hope to meetup with them for a couple of days). It seems to me that there is much more enthusiasm within the club for non-TC events such as the Dragon, Elefant or the SRX rally in Holland. Why do you think that is....is the Thumper Club in decline? I certainly miss our presence at the Shepton Show in February and enjoyed immensely the Crewkerne Rally in May 2004. But we seem to be down to just the one get-together now. Is it the recession?
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i'm not a member, but how about a few regional informal pub meets?
just an afternoon somewhere in the countryside, with some real bikes and a nice lumpy pint of old scrotum?
bullet350
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Thing is Bill who's going to organise these get togethers? What has been in the past has been organised by the same people with very little regognition and quite a bit of personal expense. Boyd has organised Stafford since I can remember. He posted a prompt on the events page asking if anyone else wanted to pick up the gauntlet and so far, no takers.
Also the H & S risk assessment angle clouds the issue too. I know it was a factor for me when I resigned as membership secretary.
Then there's the issue of getting people to come along. Steffan has laid open his place several times for a shed meet with few (if any) members going.
I've done a shed meet in the past. It cost me a small fortune (I paid for all the food & drink from my own wallet), but who else is prepared to do the graft, take the responsibility, and organise these get togethers.
Are you volunteering Bill?? ;D ;D
The advantage of informal meets at pre-organised events like the Dragon, or Red Marley or any other show/ralley come to think of it, is we (the Thumperclub) don't actually have to do anything apart from turn up ;D We have a great forum where we can natter, discuss and arrange to meet with no risk assessments in sight or forms or fees or responsibility.
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I take your point Pat and if there was enough interest I could get something up and running around these parts. (I would need some advice on the H&S front mind) but it seems so quiet now. I can understand that things are getting a little tight for folk these days though. As you say Stafford doesn't seem to be attracting much interest (I did it once, for the day, but would prefer a stand at Shepton ). And there's the rub. All these other events that attract such interest seem to take place at the beginning (in freezing weather) or at the end of the season. What's wrong with July and August? I know it's peak time for families but there must be enough of us to sustain a regular event in the warmer months. Was taking the "Annual" out of Wales a mistake? I think it may have been. Given the choice, and with every respect to Boyd and SteveD, I would go back to Hay tomorrow. (and I loved Dent) Please don't take this as a criticism. I am the first to admit that I have never thrown my hat into the organising ring but I'd like to see the club moving onwards and upwards whereas at the moment it seems to be standing still at best.
P.S. bullet350 where are you?
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Sadly Bill you have highlighted a situation that is slowly strangling this club. It has now become, by default, an internet only club with less than fifteen 'active members'. The replies you will get to your original question will be from the usual suspects, and even they are falling by the wayside due to apathy. Not that long ago this was a very vibrant club but it has, due sadly to inertia upon high, almost become extinct. It is a real shame and I know that these things have their time, but all the initial enthusiasm has now been lost; folks are voting with their feet and joining any of the other hundreds of excellent, active, well run clubs out there - I suspect that I will soon be one of them........
Thumper Club RIP :'(
Boyd
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I would echo what Boyd has said above. As for membership I removed the pages from the site, because people werent getting anything in return for their money.
The H+S issue is an interesting one, in theory as long as we are sensible and try and cover off any risks and assumimg we have insurance, it shouldnt be a problem. However, I have no idea whether the club currently has any insurance cover, and as such I would not be prepared to chance it and possibly put my home on the line should someone decide to claim damages and we are found to be negligent. This is a sad state of affairs but unfortunately seems to be the reality in 2008
I intend keeping the web-site running as long as it is still used, so there will at least be a point of contact for discussion and informal meetings.
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Well....
Thats a bit of food for thought chaps.
I have, for a number of reasons, become a "lurker". Generally, I'll read topics of interest (to me), but I dont post so much now (ahem! bar those in my own rather inglorious section of the forum)
So I am guilty of not inputing as much as when I first joined up (2001?). A number of reasons, how many apply to you? Discuss.
a) Time: I can't fanny around at work as I could as a phd student. And I'm living with my missus now, and time is spent twiddling spanners in the evenings with the racer. Life changes. Other things take priorities. I am not now a 22 year old drunken idiot. (hee hee! Yes, I'm a 29 year old drunken idiot)
b) Necessity: I am now more able to solve most of my own problems, so dont tend to discuss (tho I do still write stuff up for newsletters).
c) Rallies: I love them, but I generally use my bike to ride to work rather than rally. And while I like a tour when i get the chance, but why don't I go so often? Racing at weekends (well, not this year!) but other things begin to take precident. I've had a great time at the ARs I've been to, and the odd stafford, or occaisional other meet.
d) The clincher I reckon: At the time I joined, those halcyon days to which we refer, Graham, Steves H&D, Boyd, et al (sorry to those I missed, just a few names of many) were really putting in the time and the graft. Big time, especially I suspect GC. And no mistake. And as "a taker" I was happy to enjoy the club. But as Pat said, these guys can't be expected to run it forever. and it would appear that no-one is too keen to take on the crown. And who would?? What did they get in return??
I hope this is not taken badly. Its not meant to be insulting in any way to anyone. It would only be my inability to express things eloquently which would give this impression. Sadly, I think that (like many) I am "a taker" more than a giver. Bar a bit of rabble rousing with the race project (and I'm grateful for all the help you guys have given) and a little scribble for the newsletter I haven't contributed much either.
hmmmmm. gloom and doom?
a (back to the shadows...!)
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It seems to me, that if the club is worth having it is worth doing something about, although I have to say that this list has lacked a certain sparkle lately. Who is responsible for the insurance? Where does this apathy on high reside? I didn't make the annual but then only three people made my last shed meet and one the time before - I was enlightened in enfield lore and got to play on one of the most beautiful bikes ever made - I was even offered to take it for spin- not bloody bad!! Numbers were a bit down this year..so what? Both times were fun and apart from people behaving very oddly the Dragon was a belter.
Get a grip fellas!
Some of us have marriages and kids that mean we can only get out when we get out. Which means that we have to go with the flow.Some of us.. OK only Pat, hope to be the next Tim Henman ;D ;D. Boyd, when your bike went belly/gearbox up before the ironbutt it was Thumperclubbers that opened their hearts and offered you more bikes than you could ride. Is that a dead club? A thumperclub contingent is off to Holland - that's good news..not bad. We all rocked up to the Dragon. Boyd did a cracking job on the annual by all accounts - where's the problem. If you want an event then be somewhere and tell everyone before hand and odds on someone will turn up. You don't need H&S to meet up with some mates "informally"
Since I joined the Thumperclub some years ago I have always found it less like a club and more like a disfunctional family, and that, in my opinion, is all to the good. I am a member of another club that specialises in section meets and rallies and it would bore the balls off a mammoth. Let's make the most of what we have and not right it off as worthless because we feel put upon.
Steffan
PS Boyd,Carl wants to know why you're avoiding work? The trial was great, you missed a treat.
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Do I count as one of the magnificent 15?
I do burble sometimes on some of the threads, and even start my own occasionally! But like Andy, time is precious and being busy with 2 jobs and 4 kids... Worse still, my main job is undergoing a restructure and outsourcing exercise (looking at 50% attrition rate to cheaper overseas labour) so if I am seen viewing non-work websites..... So here I am at 11pm writing this when SWMBO is already in bed - what am I doing!
I went to Crewkerne in 2004 and thoroughly enjoyed it. Most other rallies seem millions of miles away and the cost of fuel, time away etc make it difficult to go much to my chagrin. Worse still, my SRX is still waiting for me to fix it again.
Whats this business about insurance? If some mates come round for a bacon buttie, a cuppa and to poke holes in my wooden shed, do we have to be insured? I do hope not.
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Good evening to you All,
First of all, my thanks to SteveH for offering to continue to manage the web site. If you would re-instate the PayPal for the £6-00 fee, I would be only to happy to make the annual contribution.
"Inertia on high", is to strong a comment to make of people whose personal circumstances have changed. This club has always been a mix of disparate characters, with their own quirks and foibles, able to take a poke of humour each other or offer support to another who had taken a metaphorical beating.
I suspect looking at the same glazed expressions, talking alchoholic 'pants', over a tealight in the bottom of a bean tin, can loose its alure after a while, even for the most hardened 'clubber'.
The club and it's members and associates are always going to be in a state of flux and if this doesn't suit or can't be accomodated by peoples chosen life styles, so be it. To get hung up, bitter, negative and introspective will do no individual or the club any good. If you have dirty laundry, please wash it, face to face in a quiet corner, "OFF SITE". If you wouldn't write it in a personal letter, why should we read it here?
The ACU, BMF, BMWOC, DOC, CMRC and VMCC to name but a few, have all been here and moved on, we can if we wish, or stay between a rock and a hard place! Life is to be enjoyed, not endured.
I intend to keep looking in on the web site, put in my tuppence worth and may suggest trips or meets that I can accomodate. If you would like to meet up and say "Hello" fine, if not, it'll be no skin off my nose. I shall still wish you good health and a safe journey, for the rest of your days.
My regards and keep boppin', Bill.
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although I have to say that this list has lacked a certain sparkle lately
Agreed mate, but its always peaks n troughs isn't it?? This may also be why for the last few months I've been lurking...
And yes, I think its worth saving, but isn't that selfish?! Worth saving so that I can drop back in? In order to save it (and I dont think its dead) we would all have to DO something and take the pressure off the "top tier"....
However, I do know that if it DID go belly up, I'd still be in touch with the folk I mostly chat to on threads.
Some electronically (I mean via email) and some I'd still see in person. Tho its much preferable to have an email relationship than actually have to SEE you bastids!! ;) jus kidding...!!
a
ps. the supermono forum (www.supermono.co.uk) isn't as active as this (nowhere near) but with "meets" every month over the summmer, maybe it doesn't need to be. Mike Edwards recently put a post on there saying "why dont more guys reply".... I didn't reply. Tho with all respect that forum has rather a different feel to it. I feel its more serious, and a little more political. Those very reasons are why I like this place...!
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Aye Andy,
You, lurking? ;D I was waiting for the chanty to be proferred for the next wee subby! ::)
Maybe this is why you aren't holding the Annual Rally in the lock up next year.
"I paid £4.50 in London last night for a single whisky and coke (no ice, no extras, plastic glass) and as I got the meagre change from my proferred tenner, a cockroach scampered across the bar and into my drink?
Refund? Feckin forget it - I was arm-wrestled out of the place by 'Security'."
A quote from a Google search when trying to find out if my spelling of 'proferred' was correct! ;D
Good night all, Bill. ;)
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First of all, my thanks to SteveH for offering to continue to manage the web site. If you would re-instate the PayPal for the £6-00 fee, I would be only to happy to make the annual contribution.
Here here!!
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Ditto!
Steffan
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As with all clubs and associations, they operate in waves. This is just a low ebb and will again come up on the sine wave. It is imperative to keep it happeneing even if only on the internet, so the rise will take place. Bombing out now is a waste of time and freinds.. stick with it. it will come good again with new generations of thumperers..
Been there, done that.
re insurance.
May be a bit different over here, BUT we (Ulysses) run on the principal, that each rider rides their own ride and is responsible to him/herself only. The nominated ride leader indicates before the ride starts that he/she is now off to "X" and anyone interested is welcome to tag along to the same destination. If you get booked ..its your fault. If you fall off trying to keep up... your fault, as we dont expect anyone to ride outside their capabilities or law... the TEC is more than happy to ride on the same roads as the slower riders so no one is abandoned. The onus is always on the individual rider.
I suppose I'm preaching to the converted, but it may be helpful in getting things going.
PS Our branch is at the moment on the upward slope after a disastrous bout of "politics" on the downer run
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The club and it's members and associates are always going to be in a state of flux and if this doesn't suit or can't be accomodated by peoples chosen life styles, so be it. To get hung up, bitter, negative and introspective will do no individual or the club any good. If you have dirty laundry, please wash it, face to face in a quiet corner, "OFF SITE". If you wouldn't write it in a personal letter, why should we read it here?
I take on board your comments Bill, and am inclined to agree with you. However if people start asking questions about what is is going wrong, then there are likely to be uncomfortable answers, surely this is better than an uncomfortable silence.
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First of all, my thanks to SteveH for offering to continue to manage the web site. If you would re-instate the PayPal for the £6-00 fee, I would be only to happy to make the annual contribution.
Here here!!
and
Ditto!
Steffan
Seconded.
Hang on though chaps this is a riders club. If we wanted to have sub-comittees, bingo every tuesday and an annual ten-pin bowling match against the Honda-4 club we could all go join the BMW brigade. The fact is that this club might exist mostly on the internet, but it exists for the sole purpose of representing what's actually a group of minorities within the bike world. You won't find anyone else wanting to ride a 500 Bullet in January to a campsite and then go for a pint of ODB to talk about camping stoves unless you are very very lucky. Bullet people are mostly polishers or mecano men who'll want to pull you for fitting a headlight that works and half the people who'll want to ride in January will only be interested if you own something Orange with a 57-inch seat height (and they tend to only do it once)!
I don't see any decline in the club simply because we are using what little free time we have (between new job and wedding plans in my case) to ride. The chances of an organised event landing where it will work for a lot of us is a pipe dream. The big events like the Dragon or Elefant are in fixed slots that you can work round, families expect you to make room for them, so they happen. It's great to know when you get there that you'll have some mates there or due to be there. That to me is what the club is about rather than worrying that we don't have a full TC specific events callender.
Now, how you grow such a group to replace the people who move on is another matter. Personally I think it has to be by word of mouth as 90% of people joining a club at something like Stafford will expect the whole Bike Mag and bingo experience which you are right, we don't deliver. I think we get more permanant recruits via the likes of Yahoo where people actively take part in conversations with our members and decide they like the feel of the club.
Now, if the insurance and H&S thing is killing us, perhaps it might be time to think of some new status as an interest group or some other non-club, non-legal entity, but if our £6 a year pays the bills I for one am happy enough and will drop the TC name in any relevant conversation where we might get a new member (for example we'll be placed in the National Rally standings).
Don't give up chaps, it isn't all that bad ;D
Andy
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I joined the club in late 2001 and made my first visit in February 2002 at the Bristol Bike Show on my SLR. It was great to meet such friendly people and this encouraged me to attend the Annual Rally and other events such as Stafford in the October of that year. Great I thought, all these places to ride to on my new bike. 2004 was better still what with Colin's excellent Crewkerne meet. I thought then that the TC was really taking off. But that seems to have been the peak, we are down to just the one event. We're not going to attract new members with this sort of events calender are we? Look at BlueLady. And most folk would want more than just an internet forum for their subscription, with all due respect to Steve's excellent efforts.
Now then, who's up for an seriously informal, come-at-your-own-risk, get-together near Billingshurst next year? (can I say that?)
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Now then, who's up for an seriously informal, come-at-your-own-risk, get-together near Billingshurst next year? (can I say that?)
If that coincided with Brighton Speed Weekend (is that the name) I could be keen
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Got to agree with Steffan, I was pondering how to explain my thoughts and he's hit most of them bang on, cheers mate! ;D
As others have said, many of us are time poor. I'm going to be completely out of circulation for most of the next 7 or eight months, but I'll try to drop into the (excellent) forum (cheers Steve) and contribute what little I can to the many people who drop by with questions.
For some of us one (main) meeting a year is fine, I just can't afford the time/travel/fuel to ride 700-1,000 miles plus too often :-\
As (yet more) others have pointed out, one of the good things here is to have a disparate group of friends who are prepared to help each other out, I regularly see offers of places to kip, lend of bikes etc etc. Complete strangers have sent me info, told me how to fix washing machines, offered me stuff to buy...(and news on the comp Steve? ;) ;D )To me that *is* the club! So what if we don't meet up often, Stanley only had to meet Livingstone once in Africa for us all to remember the greeting ;)
The last annual rally was small, but no worse for that (damn good in fact). Things change, let's not give up a great group if we don't have to.
Oh and can next years meet up be after May please wherever it is? So I can play ;) 8)
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Do you know Steve, I think I could work something around that. Good idea mate. Brighton, as you know, is around 25 miles from Bilingshurst which would make for a good day out. I shall give this further thought and discuss it with Terry Lee as he is a local too. I shall recce the Bat & Ball pub and see what the amenities are (I think they are pretty good) and try to find out if this meet would work. I can't see why not.
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I shall recce the Bat & Ball pub
I used to camp there when I was a kid, should bring a few memories back.
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(and news on the comp Steve? ;) ;D )
If you mean the bike competition from some time ago, then my plead is not guilty. I could go on but I wont
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(and news on the comp Steve? ;) ;D )
If you mean the bike competition from some time ago, then my plead is not guilty. I could go on but I wont
Oooops, no, not at all! I meant computer, and it was meant for Steve L not you mate, sorry for any offence :-\
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Just remembered GC mentioning a possible meet at the Three Magpies pub in August. Is this still going ahead, 'cos I'll need to be putting in for time off work?
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Right.............'tis true...i have been a bit of a lurker of late.....and mainly an 'internet' member...geography dictates that it is difficult in terms of time and mileage for me to attend most get togethers.
That said.....all the previous posts have a great deal of sense....and the volume and size of the posts show there is considerable interest in keeping the show on the road.....so.............
with apologies to the late Jack Kennedy.......I won't ask what the club can do for me...I will ask what I can do for the club???
I'd be happy to organise a local get together, somewhere within reasonable reach of people in the East.
What else needs doing.....I can find time to do some management/organising .... please let me know
AND.....i'd be happy to organise the club 2009 rally.....just let me know
It's got to worth us all pulling in the same direction
SteveL
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Well done SteveL, I hope people haven't mistaken my original post as criticism of anybody in particular. It's just that things are so quiet. I understand completely that family and work commitments preclude many from attending meets but if we could get a few up and running throughout the year (say the Annual, a Northern meet and one in Wales/South West )perhaps there would be something for everybody. Then again others like Steve Dalby would attend all of them if he could. If you missed the Annual there is nothing, clubwise, to look forward to (unless someone takes on Stafford).
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(and news on the comp Steve? ;) ;D )
Ermm...yes...as a matter of fact there is....I have the offending item in my car...collected it yesterday.....but the client (read clot) forgot to bring in the power supply....so will be picking that up next tuesday....then it's sort out a repair (sorry, these things do take some time), now, if you're still interested let me know....I will of course give you a proper quote once a repair is organised....and then you can decide if you still want it
cheers
SteveL
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Oooer ! Wots going on here then ?
Havent been on for a while as my comp has had a few Hiccups !
Anyways I agree with Steffan....so there !
And why dont a few people do as we have done at Llanthony Priory !
Find a tidy camp site with decent pub nearby and have a "Get Together".
I know we have done this in November,and Easter but being a little boisterous there are not too many people around to upset !
Of course not everyone can turn up all of the time.
I for one have had to miss out on a few things this year due to one reason and another.
On the whole it is a very good crowd,when we do get together we have a bloody good time no matter how many in attendance.
Jethro
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OH another thingy...
you lot have only just started to warm up from spring thaw and winter. That would slow things down hey?
OOOOPS Sorry, thats as warm as it gets....
forecast 24C tomorrow here. Might get out for a ride.
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Don't forget to rug up warm Kurt, what with winter temperatures mate.
Steffan
getting all misty eyed..oh, no, sorry its the weather again.
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Oooer ! Wots going on here then ?
Havent been on for a while as my comp has had a few Hiccups !
Anyways I agree with Steffan....so there !
And why dont a few people do as we have done at Llanthony Priory !
Find a tidy camp site with decent pub nearby and have a "Get Together".
I know we have done this in November,and Easter but being a little boisterous there are not too many people around to upset !
Of course not everyone can turn up all of the time.
I for one have had to miss out on a few things this year due to one reason and another.
On the whole it is a very good crowd,when we do get together we have a bloody good time no matter how many in attendance.
Jethro
I think that's the crux of my point. As a club we don't have to organise formal get togethers. They put too much responsibility and cost onto an unrewarded few especially with the H&S side of things.
What this small band of riders can do (and is very good at if you ask me) is arrange to meet up adhoc or at someone elses organised get together.
I may not get to many meet-ups, but at least I know there will be a friendly face when I get there. Take this years Dragon for example. No one knew I was going to go (including me!) but I can roll into the campsite and have a beer (or was it a large G&T ;D) stuffed into my hand before the tent's up!
Like I say Bill, if you want a get together, find a site, post a place and date here in plenty of time, and some of us will turn up. SteveD is a sure bet ;D
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No one knew I was going to go (including me!) but I can roll into the campsite and have a beer (or was it a large G&T ;D) stuffed into my hand before the tent's up!
If you can remember which it was you were doing it wrong ;) Have to try again next year ;D
Andy
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I now consider myself well and truly told. I s'pose it's time to put up or shut up ::)
I'm off to get my thinking cap on. ( or dunce's depending on your point of view ;D)
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SteveH, I've just fired off an email to the VMCC asking for info (and dates) for next years Speed trials). Once they get back to me I can get something sorted at the Bat & Ball. A nice excuse to pop over there for a nights camping and session in the pub next weekend methinks.
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Bill, sounds good
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I'd just like to say that although my bike's still in pieces so I havent been able to come along to any get togethers, as soon as its built I'd like to pop along- I'm an Essex boy and I'm not sure if anyone's near me but even so, I tend to prefer the lo-fi non organised things. And you all sound like such a nice bunch of loonies that I'd like to be able to say that I genuinely belong to the throng. ;D
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"I genuinely belong to the throng."
You will need to bring your own throng as we're choosy about what we wear
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"I genuinely belong to the throng."
You will need to bring your own throng as we're choosy about what we wear
I'm not choosy! Mind you this armadillo skin one chaffs somewhat! :o
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I must be the most useless 'member' on here. Most of the time I have nothing to say, but when I do its generally along the lines of how do I fix x ? So just a taker. though I did once offer some advice on how to remove SRX carbs having messed them up so many times myself. And I've never been to a rally.
However I do ride an SRX every day, I used to have a landrover, I have some solar panels and I darersay I could develop a stove festish if I ever went camping.
If there is a meet in Essex I might be seriously tempted.......
Here's an idea, sadly a cliche, Boxhill anybody?
Julian.
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I once had access toa Box ona Hill !!!!!!! :P :P
Doesnt happen very often :( :
Most Pleasureable it was too !!!! ;D ;)
I'll Get Me Coat
Jethro
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I've been watching this thread for a while and have been thinking of what the club means to me. I must admit I am a taker rather than a giver. This however is not why I like the club.
I have struggled financially, and personally, to attend many of the meets over the last year, my job means I work most weekends and the family claims the remainder. In fact I have only had about 4-5 weekends off this year, including holidays.
The thumperclub is more than a meeting club. for me it is a motorcyle club where the members use their bikes either for racing, commuting, renovating or just for fun. The only connection is that they enjoy bikes. there is no real committees and politics there is no real budget. That is how I like the club. its aims are vague, read non existent and as for a mission statement ha ha!
Although I enjoyed stafford I felt uneasy that it was becoming a focus for the club rather than a bit of fun. this is not to belittle those who organised and set up the stands etc. and I was a little proud when we pi**ed on the other larger clubs to win the prizes. maybe we will do it again maybe we wont, does it matter will it alter my riding or membership of the club, not really.
My biggest problem is I dont have a landrover, I do have a small collection of stoves. so I may still be allowed to stay.
What I mean to say is that I have enjoyed the club, I still get lots from the club and hope to do so in the future.
Nothing stays the same, people move on, circumstances change. I have always change bikes from time to time depending on what I need them for and the money I have in my pocket. Like wise the club will do the same, I feel as graham and some of the founding members appear to move away from the centre of the club for understandable reasons so others must fill there place. It is not about takeovers but evolution. If the active members feel a more forum based club suits them so be it as long as the ethos remains I wont complain.
There is still room for meets and ride outs. Perhaps a section for informal outings and meets could be put into the main menu so these can be seenby other members.
In the past steveD have met and we have had a days riding or gone to bike meets, could this be a way for the club to go.
I don't know the answers but feel that the club has lots to give.
So ends the sermon on the mount.
keep on riding
beeman
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although i'm not a member, i've got to second beemans point; its a club without the bulls**t.
i was looking at one club based around brit bikes and cafe racers. it had more rules than switzerland and excluded anyone who didn't have a brit cafe racer.
is it me or is than a bit crap? if you don't have £5k to spend on a cafe racer thats too nice to use everyday then you're not good enough to meet with us! P**S OFF!
i'd rather meet with people who take bikes fit for the landfill and use them for continental jaunts (you know who you are).
i want to meet people who are a bit odd (land rovers are a good sign), people who just want to have a laugh and generally dick about.
by their nature people like these (us) don't plan anything, ever! its wednesday and i haven't even thought about what i'm doing this weekend, apart from not working.
anyone agree?
bullet350
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Wednesday - it is the weekend, or it is if you are a business consultant.. ;D Rule One: Never book a meeting on a Wednesday, it ruins two weekends.
R
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The thing is (and I suppose I should quantify my original post as the purpose of it seems to have got lost in the mists) is that BlueLady tried to get membership of the club without much in the way of interest despite trying more than once, and was reluctant to turn up at a rally without being welcomed beforehand. As a club are we happy to let prospective members slip away? And, apart from this, Steve's forum, is there much else to woo people? I too like the relaxed feel of the club, but that was never my point. Surely more events would lead to more members (but again that brings us back to the issue of finding organisers) I just get the impression that the TC is a gnat's wotsit from shutting up shop.
I imagine that somewhere in all this I am subconciously mulling over the idea of joining a more established club with a varied events calender- there are a few pretty good ones in the South-East to choose from.
I shall, of course, still keep up with TC comings-and-goings by "lurking" on here, and will almost definately carry on attending the Annual Rally as a member for as long as possible.
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Well Bill you could have a very good point. As a club, we aren't the best at self advertising it's true. It must be said though that most of us here aren't that way inclined anyway.
I'm judging the mood from those that have replied and what I feel from the meetings we've had in the past, but most here are day to day riders and although they like a meet up with some beer involved, they're not that bothered about club membership.
What we've got is a great forum to chat, get help, have a laugh and arrange a meet up if we want. True, it's a little inward looking, but I've never heard of anyone being actively 'excluded'.
Heyho. So what's it feel like to be part of an exclusive little club then? ;D
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Billy Bragg was on the radio this am supporting free peer-peer downloading of music, saying that it is a business model that has developed because it is what the punters want, it is now for the music industry to address that model and seek to develop it so it creates income whilst not destroying the essence.
What we have here is a developing club, growing its own model. There may be need to create income even if only to pay for the web space, or to cover some possibly insurance, print newsletter etc. Typically this would come from membership fees. Maybe there is a need to allow the group to develop and answer the questions, do we want this web space, are we willing to cover the costs of this web space? Are we willing to contribute to the time taken to make this web space.. Do we want an annual rally? Are we willing to cover the cost of setting this up, and how. Etc etc. I think the nature of a 'club' used to be a bunch of mates meeting in the pub / coffee bar. They needed some badges so collected some money and so developed the XYZ motorcycle club. Has the model changed?
Some people have written that they are takers not givers, rubbish, when I write something here I do so in the hope that someone may read it and maybe even comment - enter a dialogue. People who just read are those people - a part of the community I need to be able to contribute.
Ditto those who have said they only ask questions - reading the questions and the answers informs us all, with out the question there would be no developing knowledge or understanding, not asking the question is taking from the group, asking the question is giving to the group.
Physical meets - I have yet to get to a rally, shed meet, Satfford etc. Many reasons, that does not mean I do not think they are a good thing and I have been there in spirit if not in person. However if their moment has passed so be it. Maybe with the missapplication of health and safety we are being forced into at present we are in a time to head to the informal rather than the formal, and then their time will come again.
Bridges are for crossing, and that crossing can be a little scary, but usually when we get to the other side we can look back and see the past from a different view point, often it is a fine place, but where we are is better.
We are where we are, looking to where we are going, even if it is like a Sunday meander rather than a planned journey is a fine thing. Worrying that it is different from the past and thus somehow "wrong" is not so useful.
Bluelady asked some interesting questions, but I think she was a taker not a giver and we are share-ers. Neither right nor wrong, just the 'is' as it is.
R
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Bluelady asked some interesting questions, but I think she was a taker not a giver and we are share-ers.
Rog, I dont think you can make that assumption, I beleive she is involved in a few clubs.
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We all sound like a wise bunch of people; the club is in all of our hands, however we look to a selected few to steer it any given direction- if members are unhappy about something, then I'm sure we can accomodate their view. I feel this is a great club, although I'm still looking to getting out to some events, and will continue to pay my fee and support it however I can. I think this forum alone and the enjoyment you lot give is worth it... ;D
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Rog makes some very good points. The traditional model does nothing for me. The BM club was a mess. No one seemed to ride, they all turned up at meetings in cars. Half engaged in club politics, half played dominoes. This wasn't a bike club it was a more like an OAP's social club. The alternative would be for the Twin's under sub-section Gruppenfuhrer to send everyone out of the room who turned up on a K or F (and blackball the car drivers), then split the oilhead riders from the airhead, like the Brit-cafe racer boys described above. I wouldn't like that either. I wasn't going to pay £2 a copy no matter how glossy their magazine was. Their "product" wasn't what I wanted so I don't buy it anymore.
The Triumph RAT thing worked better until you noticed the only time the group leader spoke to riders of older machines was to try and sell them a new one. Paid for by Triumph it was a very subtle marketing tool designed to make people ride what they bought, wearing bits out and "proving" everyone needed a Tiger/Trophy/Rocket, not a Bonneville Black. It was probably too subtle as they wound it up in that form. Guess they found it pointless talking to the likes of me about £14000, 2.3 litre bikes and probably found my laughing put the real customers off.
As Pat said, the club-that's-not-a-club thing works well for me. If the £6 a year funds it that's great. If it doesn't, perhaps we need to cut costs (move to Yahoo Groups?) or raise the membership fee. I would however suggest a £32 a year with £10 off the annual dinner isn't going to work for many on here and cheap/cheerful is probably where our market is? Isn't our market the time-poor section of the bike world who'll pop on here for a quick chat between e-mails at work rather than dominoes playing retired bank managers who want to talk about the bike they hired in Florida or get a buzz from getting elected as deputy sub-section pencil sharpener? I don't think the Run-what-you-brung thing will win us any corporate sponsers (or does anyone know a contact at WD-40 or a scrap merchants ;D).
I agree with Dave. I don't think it's that broke, so in true TC style, why fix it?
Andy
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If the £6 a year funds it that's great. If it doesn't, perhaps we need to cut costs (move to Yahoo Groups?) or raise the membership fee.
Funding the site is not a problem, and the club has plenty of money.
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SteveH, I've not heard anything from the VMCC about the 2009 Speed Trial dates but the Burgess Hill MCC is having a camping weekend over at the Bat & Ball this weekend so I shall bend their ears about organising something next summer.
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Burgess Hill MCC
Another faimiliar name, spent a lot of time in Burgess Hill in my youth.
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Bluelady asked some interesting questions, but I think she was a taker not a giver and we are share-ers.
Rog, I dont think you can make that assumption, I beleive she is involved in a few clubs.
OK Maybe a bit strong. And not meant as a personal attack, just remembering that she contributed quite a lot, then questioned why things were not happening, then cleared off elsewhere where she was "wanted". The issues about membership were quite clear at the time and told many times over, but there was an assumption made that 'we' did not want 'her'. Despite the assertions to the contrary, the fact that we were and possibly are a disheveled lot with no one currently willing to take up the membership sec role, and GC rightfully doing the stuff needed by his real family rather than us load of kids.
There did not seem to be a lot of giving, either in letting things roll - or offering to pick up the baton. That is where I - I guess because it fits with what I do ;D - made a distinction. A few of us have questioned what was happening about membership, but when not a lot happened, we were willing to let it roll and see what happens. Possibly a few of us enquired about what was entailed with running the membership. But not a lot of us came out and said if you do not want me I am going.
I am involved in a lot of different things, in some I am willing to let it roll, in others I take an active part in steering it, making it work. I guess in the past I have suggested that it is someone elses job to sort out the problems I perceive. I only do this now to the local council and MPs as they have set themselves up and deserve the pooh as well as the nice stuff.
R
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Hello again fellas, sorry for the long absence, I've been working my nads off trying to raise enough cash to pay my tax arrears (a visit from the Distraint officer asking to value your goods focuses your mind on these things).
I haven't even sat at this chair in my office for at least a week and I've been off-line for longer.
Let me address some points.
1. Competition - turned into a mess when we asked for votes. It took absolutely ages and ages for enough votes to come in before we could say that a decision had been reached. I lost control of that one, which is a shame because it started off well.
2. Insurance - yes the club is insured. Now that we have a treasurer (Liz) in place and able to access all our accounts the money side of it has settled down. She made sure Boyd got his rally money and paid for our insurance.
3. Membership - let's face it, I was shite at this even when I ran the club out of my own pocket and I haven't got any better at it. At present it's a mess of spreadsheets and unposted memebrship packs. It will have to be sorted out soon. We had a volunteer to do this, but once it became clear that he wouldn't have internet access I had to go to Plan B. The worst thing I did was not taking up Richard Moore's offer to take this on. It's a job for someone with a methodical mind and, er, that's never going to be me.
4. The decline in interest - I started the club in the summer of 1999. I ran it on my own money for a while, then Steve and Colin came on board and we ran it more or less at cost for a while. Then Steve took over the money and the club turned a profit (essential for events and merchandise, etc.) and he reined in any silliness with money. With Steve's departure from the role of treasurer and Pat's relinquishing of the membership, 2008 was never going to be a magic year.
I have two young boys now and they take a lot of my time. This isn't a matter of choice, my wife has to work some evenings and I look after two little tearaways (after a full day at work). I don't have sick pay or paid holidays or any of those luxuries so I have to go out and earn money most days of the year. At the moment I don't have the same level of committment that I once had to the club, but I don't see it as being over. I see it as me sorting out other things in my life and letting the club take second place for a while, not for ever..
On top of everything else I have also had a few personal issues hanging around, in late December some stuff went on that made me a little less inclined to pay attention to motorcycling matters and motorcycling people. This isn't a big issue by any means, but it hasn't helped. And just to clarify, this isn't a reference to my home life, which is miraculously intact despite the financial hardship that I have put my family under.
In some respects the club has gone full circle, most club tasks are being done by me and I'm still proving myself to be inept at administration and/or delegation.
When I think about where the club was in July 07 I could cry. We had lots of little meet-ups happening amongst members, not having to be arranged centrally. We had good admin in place and things we being done at the right time. We had a fantastic annual rally in Dent, superbly organised by Steve Dalby (although by all accounts Boyd did a great job this year too). The forum was thriving and we were adding lots of members to the club. It's not like that now though eh? :(
I was hoping that I could ramp down the amount of time I spent on club stuff after nearly ten years, but no, it's back to where it started, with the exception of this fantastic website (Thank you Steve). My thoughts were that over the years the club would grow and other people would step in to shoulder the workload. We almost did get to that point, but (so I have been told) it's my failings that led to people walking away from their roles in the club. So you see it really is all my fault, my wife has been right all this time.
But by God I'm glad I started this club. I've met some fantasic people, had adventures galore and been to some great places. It's just a shame that I'm so hopeless at running the bloody thing.
GC
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GC, just read your comments and can't help but wonder if you don't feel that maybe it's time to step down as chairman and move aside to let someone else take the strain??
Personally I couldn't give a monkey's, don't want to be Chairman, don't even want to be on the committee. My point is made as a direct response to your own comments. You say you have so much personal stuff going on that keeps you away, your business adds even greater pressure and reduces your time even further, and you intimate that you've lost some of the interest in biking that is needed to drive any motorcycle club forward. You go on to admit to being, well, err, um, shall we say less than compitant at the admin side of things.
No one may want to do the job, but if they do surely it's best for the club and from what you say, best for you??
Anywho, I'm sure as departing Chairman, your last act could be to award yourself a life time membership ;)
Just a thought. Anyone els got a comment??
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Graham, I hate to say this but I think Pat has a point, no one can doubt your dedication to this club, but it does need someone who has more spare time on their hands to take the reins and guide the club. Hopefully that would allow you to concentrate on the bits you are good at and allow someone else to do the co-ordinating. This thread has shown there are people who are willing to help, that offer should be taken before the club hits rock bottom.
I know how much this club means to you, and as such this issue is quite hard to address, I would just say that non-one is knocking you personally, and the fact that this thread did not dissolve into a slagging match indicates the quality of people we have here, and the respect we have for each other.
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OK....lets cut the crap.....Graham ... My personal feeling is, that the one thing you are good at (clubwise....i'm sure you are effin brilliant at loads of other things too :) ) is being chairman.....so stick to that, and offload all the other stuff....I know this is a bit simplistic, but just bung up a list of the jobs that you do other than chairman, and then we can all pick up a job apiece....job done.
To start the ball rolling.....If there arn't any other takers put me down for membership secretary.
I think we have probably done just about enough talking round this thing now.....lets get on with it.
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Hear hear SteveL
GC - I may take the piss out of you - but I expect the same in return - but to suggest that the club is 'failing' because of you is utter crap. Because you have done a good job we have sat back and let it happen.
Not sure what I can do - but if you get a chance of a list of jobs needing doing other than being "Chairman" I will see if there is anything a bod less organised than you can pick up.
R
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I popped over to the bike meet at the Bat & Ball to meet up with Stuart who organises the Diesel Bike Rally. He looked a bit shocked when I mentioned our H&S waiver (sorry if that's not the right word) so he is looking into getting that side of things sorted. John, the owner of the pub was a bit disorganised as to booking things for next year but said there's plenty of time to organise things for a September get-together. So nearer the time (and when I get a definate date for the Speed trials in Brighton) I will set the ball rolling.
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Hi
Tell me more about the diesel bike Rally please.
One day when I have free time I would like to make one up.
Ken
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Hi I agree with Steve L. If Graham is up for it. There hasn't been a magazine for a while I'd be happy to kick start it, if that's what people want.
Julian.
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Steady on chaps, one potential member who isn't happy with the laid back approach and we are looking for GC's resignation as chairman :o
OK, I know it wasn't meant like that and this sort of soul searching is probably a good thing for the club, but I think we are at the "10 minutes late docking" rather than "Captain of the Titanic" stage :)
I for one will continue to support the englightened dictatorship style of managment of club affairs and while weddings and jobs get in the way of me taking on a large club role, if you set me a deadline for getting the mag up and running again I'll make sure I get an article done. If that's for GC, Julian or whoever as editor, just let me know where to send it.
All this poltite discusion and fixing things before they are broke is very weird for you lot. Are you sure we haven't been hacked? The next stage is needing to "rest" some Nigerian currency in my bank right? ;D
Andy
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But surely this is a "riders" club. I thought the internet forum was a welcome by-product for information, help and other bike related topics - but the club itself was always about riding. I wouldn't be able to make every TC event should there be a full calender but I'd like to be able to go to more than just one TC rally a year. The lack of events, I feel, is putting people off from becoming members. Indeed Terry Lee (who is not hooked up to the'net) hasn't rejoined, largely because he hasn't had a newsletter. Taken to it's ultimate conclusion if nobody pays their subs there will surely come a time when there won't be a forum either. Just my opinion.
kerabo, the Diesel Bike Rally? Look here:
www.dieselbike.net
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OK....lets cut the crap.....Graham ... My personal feeling is, that the one thing you are good at (clubwise....I'm sure you are 'effin brilliant at loads of other things too :) ) is being Chairman.....so stick to that, and offload all the other stuff....I know this is a bit simplistic, but just bung up a list of the jobs that you do other than chairman, and then we can all pick up a job apiece....job done.
To start the ball rolling.....If there aren't any other takers put me down for membership secretary.
I think we have probably done just about enough talking round this thing now.....lets get on with it.
Steady on chaps, one potential member who isn't happy with the laid back approach and we are looking for GC's resignation as chairman :o
OK, I know it wasn't meant like that and this sort of soul searching is probably a good thing for the club, but I think we are at the "10 minutes late docking" rather than "Captain of the Titanic" stage :)
I for one will continue to support the englightened dictatorship style of managment of club affairs and while weddings and jobs get in the way of me taking on a large club role, if you set me a deadline for getting the mag up and running again I'll make sure I get an article done. If that's for GC, Julian or whoever as editor, just let me know where to send it.
All this polite discussion and fixing things before they are broke is very weird for you lot. Are you sure we haven't been hacked? The next stage is needing to "rest" some Nigerian currency in my bank right? ;D
Andy
I agree with you both :-\ and the Titanic analogy is very good. If the Captain had used his crew more effectively, and maybe sought other navigational expertise, the inevitable might not have happened. In our case there won't be a dramatic submission just a relentless slowing down of the engines, with large parts of the super-structure falling into disrepair. And all the while the once steadfast crew and the regular passengers will discovering more reliable, but ultimately less romantic, ways to reach their destinations. Finally, when only the Captain and a few junior crew remain, the vessel will slowly turn-turtle and sink in the shallows off Barry Island. No one will notice and it won't make any headlines!
On the other hand if the Good Captain and/or Dastardly Tyrant might consider advice, freely but passionately given, he could navigate the once proud vessel towards the warmer seas whilst avoiding an ignominious fate. It may never again be the once proud vehicle of it's heyday but it can still welcome aboard those who want to visit the ports less often seen and have a bl**dy good time doing so.
"Three cheers for SS Thumper and ALL whole sail in her - Hip,hip! Hoorah!"
Sorry for the slightly melodramatic overtones, but (in the voice of Hughie Greene) "I mean this most sincerely, Folks!"
Love and best wishes
Boyd xxx
PS My wife just read this and said "You need to get out more!"
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Guys my earlier post wasn't a lead to oust GC. it was a way of helping HIM! GC is the one who is telling us he can't cope with this club and his other commitments. Now we can all just carry on with things as they are and stay a happy dozen posting on this forum or others can step in, take over some of the responsibilities and drive the club forward. Up to you lot, I don't care to be honest. Maybe I too have reached the point of blank exceptance. When the forum crashed the other week it didn't matter to me at all, which is a little sad when I think of the heydays of the thumperclub but there it is.
Do whatever, I'm just saying that when someone (anyone) says on a forum how much strife their in, how the demise of the club is down to them and blaming themselves so much, you can only say "Never mind, we understand" so many times. At some point you have to help them, because (I believe at least) that is what they really want you to do.
GC What do you think???
Seems to me there is 1 of 3 options.
1) I'm right
2) I'm totally wrong and you just like us fussing over you
3) Your not even reading this lot cos your still to busy to come on line, read this stuff and act in a 'chairmanly' way (see No 1) ;D ;D ;D
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I for one liked this club (and still do) precicely because there is no 'mission statement'. We don't have to 'think outside the box' and arn't constantly asked to 'push the envelope'....as bill says...it's a riders club innit?....bung a few bob in the kitty each year so's we can have a news letter now and again which provides a bit of space where we can tell each other about our brilliant rides/weekends away/rallies etc....then maybe get together and talk about it all over again....with beer and jokes..
nothing too formal.....minimum organisation (if any)....thats where I thought we were at......or have i missed something?
just as an aside, and apro po bu55erall....the morini riders club seems very similar, i'm not a member, but #1 son is....and from what i hear it sounds familiar (the accent is on 'Riders')
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"PS My wife just read this and said "You need to get out more!".....
......that could be my Dawn's mantra. I apologise for this turning into a bit of a soapbox, but this club is very close to my heart and I don't want to lose it. As Pat says, if it goes that way - so be it, there are other clubs, but I really don't think that's what the majority would want. There is something unique about a TC rally (and I don't even do the rideouts!) and the members who show up are great. I am going to try to do more in future and, if it only ends up being Colin, Terry and SteveD and myself at some Godforesaken campsite- well that's fine. But from what has been posted I can now see that there is indeed a good deal of willingness to promote this club. It isn't down to one bloke. From my point of view there are at least half a dozen chaps who have kept things ticking over (actually much more than ticking over) and I thank them for that. As SteveL rightly said, I think this thread has gone far enough now.
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Aye SteveL,
then maybe get together and talk about it all over again....with beer and jokes..
nothing too formal.....minimum organisation (if any)....thats where I thought we were at......or have i missed something?
just as an aside, and apro po bu55erall....the morini riders club seems very similar, i'm not a member, but #1 son is....and from what i hear it sounds familiar (the accent is on 'Riders')
Agreed. Bit of flow and go and the Morini things the same, but not a member myself. Yet! The Minx is progressing.
Self flagelation etc. never did equate to anything positive, so give it a rest. I'll pay me subs for the Forum, watch the tide ebb and flow, throw bread for the fish or pop a line in to haul one out.
Make sure you all keep boppin' and keep in good health, it's the only thing worth worrying about, Bill.
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I haven't been to any Thumperclub meets yet (some member I am) but I've found it hard to stay upright on a box of bits on the garage floor... ;)
But when I do get it done and I can get out, I'd like to feel that there would be a few meets I could go to- it all seems very informal on here so if someone fancies doing something, pop it on the meets and events bit and other like minded members can pop along if they wish.
I think GC's doing fine, juggling everyday life with us lot- I find I'm too busy to devote any real time to helping with this sort of thing, so well done to GC for at least attempting to please us. I know he doesn't do it all on his own, and thanks should go to everyone who manages to devote the significant amount of time it takes to organise these things.
I'm going to stop blubbering now... :'(
( ;D)
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Thanks for your comments guys.
After today (I've just paid off my half year tax bill and my ongoing arrears payments are not too bad) I will be able to devote a little more time to things. I will have a look at the structure and subdivision of tasks over the next few days. Then we can talk about how to parcel 'em up and ship 'em out ;)
GC
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Aye GC,
Keep the focus me old china!!!!! Pleased you cleared the half yearly. No jankers for that! ;)
As for the ongoing arrears payments
??? You need these out the way, not not too bad
! Some other B' is getting benefit from your dosh, all the time that's on the go. ???
I wish you well in steadying your craft and tackling the new day. From reading all the posts here, the bilges are being pumped and this craft is still making headway under it's own steam. Whether its the 'Waverley' under full steam or a punt gun boat on the Broads, with a delicate paddle in hand, I'll leave to the punters and hacks of the single persuasion! ;D
Keep boppin', Bill.
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Oh my God.......here I am, just about to go on hols and GC reminds me i owe the revenue for 2006/2007.....and....today i just got a reminder with interest added on....bluddy barstewards
have a good weekend all
pip pip
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Hi All,
I’ve been watching this thread for a while and I have been taking in all that has been said by its members. I am now very careful about passing comment because in the past my comments have caused problems with the committee and some members. Now I think I would like the opportunity to comment and make my feelings known.
1) I joined the club in September 1999 when GC started it. (It was an advertisement in Classic Bike that prompted me to contact GC.) Over the next 2 years I helped to arranged shows and promote the club as much as possible. It was quite evident that the membership was increasing and we had a big contingent of members in the southwest. I later became the Membership Secretary, I think I held this post for about 2 years and was involved with the TC Committee so I have seen thinks from both sides of the fence. I was made an honorary life member in 2003.
2) GC gave all the members an opportunity about 3 years ago to have their say if they were happy with the club and asked if we wanted to change the format. Below was my reply.
"As many of you know I have been a member of this club for six years and at present I own a BMW 1150 GS (I’m still working on my SR single) and I have attended many club events. What this club means to me is quite simple “The Members” this club is quite unique it doesn’t matter if you own a single or not if you are passionate about them than that’s all that matters. I think this club is more than a riders club it’s a brother hood of like-minded individuals that share a common interest “riding motorcycles” I have been a member of other club’s and this is not always the case. I think some club’s could take a leaf out of our book and become more sociable to its members and non-members. As for the direction of the club GC I think the current format is great! The first event I pencil in on my calendar every year is our annual rally come what may."
I still stand by this because this club has always been a brotherhood. I think it is down to all of us to do something constructive and help to move this club forward. Bill is right in my opinion, we do need more events and meets but you all need to support them better. I am willing to support & organise an event down here in the West Country next year if that is what you want? I know it will not suit all of you that is a given but at least I will try and do something.
3) I my opinion the future of this club will depend on us the members not single individuals. GC is a great helmsman but in his own words shite at administration. I don’t think he is quite right because he has produced some great newsletters which have given me hours of amusement. Also this is not a new thing this has been going on for sometime and we were all aware of GC situation in the past. I will look forward to seeing what GC puts together as tasks for us to consider doing in the future to help him out.
4) As for Health & Safety I took it upon myself to organise this at now cost to the TC. I cannot understand what all the fuss is about. I have done all the work and all you have to do is fill out a form job done. I must admit I have been quite annoyed about all the negative comments that have been bounded about at times. If all clubs and organisations adopted this attitude that we will not consider H&S then no one would put on a show or a rally would they?
5) This club has meet a lot to me over the years and I have made many friends, like Bill Said “ it’s close to my Heart “ and I agree with Bee Man the club is evolving and nothing stays the same. So let’s work together and try and sort the problems out for GC. After all if it was not for GC in the beginning we would not be having this conversation now would we?
Here’s looking to the future
Colin Hilliard
PS How about a special event next Year to celebrate are 10th anniversary any Idea’s? anyone :)
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10th Anniversary get-together? Sounds great. For my tuppenceworth I could think of no better idea than combining our two great passions i.e. beer and bikes, and perhaps take in a Real Ale festival that has a campsite nearby or perhaps a cider farm like Rick Sharp and Steve Dalby's meet in Glastonbury.
P.S. Colin, I have managed to get the time off from work for Princetown so I shall be down there early to mid-afternoon on the Friday. What are your plans for Eype with Terry? I shall give you a ring nearer the end of the month.