Thumper Club Forum

Technical => Bike Problems/Questions => Topic started by: andy230 on February 18, 2008, 10:32:14 AM

Title: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: andy230 on February 18, 2008, 10:32:14 AM
Hello all.

I have just been told that the XTZ cases have a mount slightly offset when compared to the SRX cases.  This would explain why we thought the frame was "bent".  So maybe its not...

Anyone got any info on this...?  Would also explain why the spricket appears to be very close to the frame...

And has anyone got a contact for Pascal?? He put a watercooled engine into a standard SRX frame....

Cheers for now

a
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: Steve H on February 18, 2008, 11:11:56 AM
The SZR, XTZ, XT600E and SRX monoshock engine cases have the sprocket offset by 10mm.
I would guess this is to clear wider tyres (could be wrong though), I would have thought this would work in your favour as you are probabaly running wider rims than the stock SRX ones.
I beleive Pascal machines the heads off the seal retaining bolts to clear the chain and uses a slightly offset spocket to get the chain alignment back.
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: andy230 on February 18, 2008, 11:30:00 AM
Hi Steve,

Am currently less concerned about sprocket offset, other than the fact that its a function of the offset of the mounts.

The SZR, XTZ, XT600E and SRX monoshock engine cases have the sprocket offset by 10mm.
I would guess this is to clear wider tyres (could be wrong though), I would have thought this would work in your favour as you are probabaly running wider rims than the stock SRX ones.
I beleive Pascal machines the heads off the seal retaining bolts to clear the chain and uses a slightly offset spocket to get the chain alignment back.

I had thought about that.  Or turning the gearbox sprocket round.

Do you know if its the sprocket itself, or the whole lump which is offset??  This may be difficult as the cylinder head mount (XT top end) may not want to line up with the chassis mounts when the XTZ cases are bolted in.

a



Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: Steve H on February 18, 2008, 11:33:14 AM
Do you know if its the sprocket itself, or the whole lump which is offset??  This may be difficult as the cylinder head mount (XT top end) may not want to line up with the chassis mounts when the XTZ cases are bolted in.
I beleive the output shaft is longer. The rest of the mounts are in the same position.
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: andy230 on February 18, 2008, 11:38:07 AM
Right.....

will hang it from the cyl head and front mounts, and see where the rear mount wants to sit...

So maybe the frames not bent after all.  Maybe we are just buffoons!! ;D

a
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: andy230 on February 18, 2008, 05:37:34 PM
Apparently XTZ and SRX cases are the same (re. mounts) and the XT is the odd-one-out...

a
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: Steve H on February 18, 2008, 06:37:29 PM
Apparently XTZ and SRX cases are the same (re. mounts) and the XT is the odd-one-out...

a

Must admit thats not been my experience.
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: Steve Lake on February 18, 2008, 10:54:32 PM
Andy.....the 'yellow' track bike I have, is an SRX mono chassis with a twinshock 640cc lump in it, and there is a 10mm offset between the rear sprocket and the engine sprocket.....the chain length is so long that the offset is of little consequence (on a track iron.....but on a proper race bike might need adressing).... but i don't seem to get accelerated chain or sprocket wear so far.
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: OMEGAMAN on February 19, 2008, 12:27:29 AM
Dunno if this is of any help, but when I tried to fit an XT lump into my std. srx frame, I got it in ok but then found the sprocket out by 10mm & also could not get the exhaust pipes back in as the front frame rails were in the way. :P
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: andy230 on February 19, 2008, 12:02:29 PM
Cheers for that...

Anyway, disaster averted.  The frame's not bent.   :)

The SRX and XTZ motors have the lower rear mounts in the same place.  The XT is different (i think) and this frame was built for an XT lump.

If you line up the centreline of the motor (ie crankcase gasket mating surfaces), the line bisects the cylinder head mounting nut at the rear of the barrel, the two inlets, and comes slap bang in the middle of the head mount.  Which is central on the frame.

However, if you continue this line to the rear, it doesn't end up central at the swingarm pivot.  Its about 15mm off to the left.

So I think it will be a case of cutting off the two ally mounts, mounting the motor from the existing, usable mounts, getting it central and welding the mounts on to suit.

Hurrah.

First I want to get the motor finished, and these shim-things sorted out under the valve springs.  And yes Steve, I hear ya.  I will contact RD, tho I have not heard good things about the "comms".  No email address, but there is a fax number on the paperwork.  Will check their site, maybe they have a "contact us", I'll ask their opinion, and let you know what the say.

Cheers for now

a

Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: Steve H on February 19, 2008, 01:42:26 PM
info@rdvalvespring.com
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: andy230 on February 19, 2008, 02:50:59 PM
ta!  will do it today.  help, interest, points of view and conversation all appreciated!

will let you know

a

Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: Steve H on February 19, 2008, 02:56:24 PM
However, if you continue this line to the rear, it doesn't end up central at the swingarm pivot.  Its about 15mm off to the left.
Andy, this still doesnt add up to me. Before you do any cutting is it worth putting up a picture so we can see what you mean.
"Measure twice cut once"
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: andy230 on February 19, 2008, 05:26:45 PM
Will post on blog and let you know when its up.

Thanks as ever

xx   :-*
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: OMEGAMAN on February 20, 2008, 02:05:05 AM
Cheers for that...

Anyway, disaster averted.  The frame's not bent.   :)

The SRX and XTZ motors have the lower rear mounts in the same place.  The XT is different (i think) and this frame was built for an XT lump.

If you line up the centreline of the motor (ie crankcase gasket mating surfaces), the line bisects the cylinder head mounting nut at the rear of the barrel, the two inlets, and comes slap bang in the middle of the head mount.  Which is central on the frame.

However, if you continue this line to the rear, it doesn't end up central at the swingarm pivot.  Its about 15mm off to the left.

So I think it will be a case of cutting off the two ally mounts, mounting the motor from the existing, usable mounts, getting it central and welding the mounts on to suit.

Hurrah.

First I want to get the motor finished, and these shim-things sorted out under the valve springs.  And yes Steve, I hear ya.  I will contact RD, tho I have not heard good things about the "comms".  No email address, but there is a fax number on the paperwork.  Will check their site, maybe they have a "contact us", I'll ask their opinion, and let you know what the say.

Cheers for now

a


???
 ???   Andy,    if this is the frame you bought off me, then I GAURANTEE it had a SRX motor in it when it last ran!!!   

I have an XT motor (tuned 640) & was considering fitting it in but found that I would have had to cut away part of one of the rear engine mounts so did not continue??????
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: Steve H on February 20, 2008, 07:40:26 AM
I have an XT motor (tuned 640) & was considering fitting it in but found that I would have had to cut away part of one of the rear engine mounts so did not continue??????
Interesting, blows my comments out of the water. The early kick start only XT, and electric start models fit. Do you have model code from the engine number ?
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: andy230 on February 20, 2008, 09:51:14 AM
[Andy,    if this is the frame you bought off me, then I GAURANTEE it had a SRX motor in it when it last ran!!!   

I have an XT motor (tuned 640) & was considering fitting it in but found that I would have had to cut away part of one of the rear engine mounts so did not continue??????

OK, cheers for info John...  I will post piccies.  GOod for info tho, I suppose Yamaha had at least 2 mounting bosses.  Its a bit like the top end- some have valves 1mm bigger...

a
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: andy230 on February 20, 2008, 03:52:16 PM
Pics posted:

www.team-thumper.blogspot.com

cheers

andy
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: Steve H on February 20, 2008, 04:39:36 PM
Pics posted:
www.team-thumper.blogspot.com
cheers
andy

Yep thats definately not right. I'm wondering if its a function of mixture of Air cooled top-end with water cooled bottm end. If the rocker based engine mount on the water cooled engine is offset from the centre then the top-end then the motor would line up. (you could measure the skorpion up). This doesnt help much as by the looks of it the air-cooled top-end wouldnt clear the frame.
I wouldnt assume that everything should be measured of the shock linkage mounts as this could well be  offset. If it were me I would do the following.

- Assemble with both wheels with a sprocket on the rear
- Accurately align the wheels
- Use your fancy laser chain alignment tool to work out where the chain wants to be.
- Work out which engine mount needs to be changed for this measurement.
This does however assume the wheels are correctly spaced in the frame :-)

Steve
Title: Re: XTZ/SRX?XT cases
Post by: Steve Lake on February 21, 2008, 11:11:18 PM
now i know why i decided not to take part in the supermono series.......god almighty!....wot a palava!