Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: themoudie on November 18, 2007, 09:52:48 PM
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My regards, Bill.
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ouch!! i never thought hitting a wall was the best option!!that is one big drop the other side. :'(
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I'm sure... most sportsbikes now are too fast for public roads. :(
Probably means I've got old that I'm prepared to say that...
Unless you have some sort of un-natural level of self control, ride a sportsbike and you'll let it rev, do that out of second gear and you will be speeding (in the uk at least). It's a blast and they're awesome... but sooner or later bad things will happen. (be it losing your licence or our health/life, just depends on your level of skill/luck but bad things either way)
These guys were lucky, and 10/10 to the guy on the Ducati for stopping the way he did. But guys... think about it... the one who fell allegedly broke his back two months before and he's pushing a 998 hard enough to lose it on a dry clean tarmac road?
Darwin had a point!
Of course... he could have just as easily hit a cyclist or a child on that obviously public road.. would they then be publicising the video? Would it still be cool? We are not without sin within this club but at the speeds they were travelling at I think there is a line crossed where I stop thinking "that's a bit quick I hope they're up to it" and start thinking "what the **** is he playing at"?
A lot of the members of this club I've chatted with have had *fast* bikes in the past and concluded that they were too fast to be fun in the uk, hence the "slow" thumpers.
We need more like Ewan and Charley, interesting rides where offs are slow and speed isn't everything. I don't necessarily agree with everything they do but at least they are making biking acceptable, interesting and accessible to the public at large. This video if it was shown on the beeb would confirm all the worst stereotypes and probably prompt another "ban them all" type crusade.
Best confined to youtube or better yet deleted!
As mum used to say, "not big and not clever, very lucky they're not dead or in jail".
Take bikes like that to a race track please kids.
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Was bound to end in tears - Mind if I had been on the Bimbo I think I would have stopped and twatted my mate on the Duke miles earlier - he was geting toooo close most of the time - mind did well to stop it.
R
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Oh dear!
Sorry, no sympathy whatsoever. If you ride like a t**t you deserve what you get! Just very lucky they didn't kill anyone.
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I'm sure... most sportsbikes now are too fast for public roads. :(
Probably means I've got old that I'm prepared to say that...
Unless you have some sort of un-natural level of self control, ride a sportsbike and you'll let it rev, do that out of second gear and you will be speeding (in the uk at least). It's a blast and they're awesome... but sooner or later bad things will happen. (be it losing your licence or our health/life, just depends on your level of skill/luck but bad things either way)
These guys were lucky, and 10/10 to the guy on the Ducati for stopping the way he did. But guys... think about it... the one who fell allegedly broke his back two months before and he's pushing a 998 hard enough to lose it on a dry clean tarmac road?
Darwin had a point!
Of course... he could have just as easily hit a cyclist or a child on that obviously public road.. would they then be publicising the video? Would it still be cool? We are not without sin within this club but at the speeds they were travelling at I think there is a line crossed where I stop thinking "that's a bit quick I hope they're up to it" and start thinking "what the **** is he playing at"?
A lot of the members of this club I've chatted with have had *fast* bikes in the past and concluded that they were too fast to be fun in the uk, hence the "slow" thumpers.
We need more like Ewan and Charley, interesting rides where offs are slow and speed isn't everything. I don't necessarily agree with everything they do but at least they are making biking acceptable, interesting and accessible to the public at large. This video if it was shown on the beeb would confirm all the worst stereotypes and probably prompt another "ban them all" type crusade.
Best confined to youtube or better yet deleted!
As mum used to say, "not big and not clever, very lucky they're not dead or in jail".
Take bikes like that to a race track please kids.
Sums up my feelings 100%.
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Totally agree.
While I'd hate anyone to loose the chance to buy a 200 mph bike if they really want one, the culture seems to actively against anything else. We have a guy in the office with less than three years on two wheels (and probably less than 10,000 miles) who thinks my 790cc Bonneville is a girls bike. 600cc 150 mph jobs are for learners, men ride litre plus jap 4's and Ducati's and Hayabusa's are tourers! He falls off at least twice a year and is currently looking to sell his bike as he can't afford the insurance with a kid on the way. He totally rejects the idea that he should trade "down" to an ER-5/CB500/trail bike and build up some saddle time and NCB as his mates would take the ****.
How you change a culture is beyond me. Likelyhood is they'll simply ban anything you can't ride on a car license.
Andy
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I think changing the culture may well start with you and me - ie US. I tend to buy MCN and then get pissed of with all the coverage of crotch rockets and nothing about most other things - If they do test a sports tourer or a single, they will say it is a nice bike but they will stick to a real one etc. Being a mug I still buy it. I have a number of friends who no longer bother. Maybe they who have given up on the MCN (and other bike publications) and I should take a different tack and make sure that the publishers know that we exist and that we do not like their glorification of track bikes on the road. Etc Etc. I remember the days of yore (etc) where most people I rode with aspired to a RD350LC, things like the GS1000S were OK but not for real riding. I think a lot of this changed with the GPz900R and its (claimed) 150mph top end, and then the FJ1100. Further eroded by the original fireplace - 900cc and lightweight. We seem to have forgotten what riding can be about.
R
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My regards, Bill.
The best sort of accident - two tw*ts take each other out, no-one else involved.
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Up to a point, it seems to be a UK phenomenon, although there are clearly many other countries with the problem. When I was last in Germany I picked up a bike mag called Mottorad Abentuer which was about touring and interesting locations, how practical the bikes were, if they were best on / off road or both, how far they would go on a tankful(!) Kit was tested on how comfy/practical etc it was..
Kind of like "ride" magazine but with a total absence of supersports bikes, I got they impression that a GSXRZZRXX was viewed as a foolish youths Sunday toy to be used until they grow up they can get a "real" bike like a GS or whatever... it was really refreshing and I can understand how kids reading it would think "Wow that's cool" and look at sportsbikes and think "what's the point, they never go anywhere".
Now obviously I'm painting an extreme, but as we've said, in this country just now we have an extreme the other way and it's killing inexperienced (and some experienced) riders and putting lots of people off bikes generally.
As I said, whatever I think about the detail, the "Long way round/down" programmes have probably done more to help the cause of "sensible" biking (and indeed BMW sales lol) than anything else I can think of in the last ten to twenty years. I hope they continue and ideally are expanded on, but what we really need is a sea change in some of the media to stop comparing p***s sizes about who can control the most ridiculous bikes and start showing some of the many other sides of biking.
We also need the manufacturers to produce new "real world" bikes instead of throwing everything into developing a bike that's a few thenths lighter/faster/shinier than last years model then detuning it a *little* fitting cheap running gear and trying to fob it off as a practical bike...
ie Bandits that would be practical except they use more fuel than many cars, and indeed more that a GT/GPz750 of the mid eighties that *was* practical and was pretty much as quick!!
Then of course there are the range of trailies and commuters that are sold as "new" but use engines that are basically unchanged since the seventies :o
I bought my MZ a few years ago now because the big four had *nothing* that was practical for me or appealed overmuch... a 650gs would have been quite nice but I object to paying an extra £2,000 for a badge, scary really. I wonder how long before upcoming manufacturers currently producing dodgy copies pull the rug from under kawasukiahada?
Anyway, I suspect I'm rambling now so I'll shut up ;-) Unless there are any manufacturers reading....? :o
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http://www.motorradabenteuer.de/(k2enseao2wuqhyvg11mylq45)/desktopdefault.aspx?alias=ma
Can you imagine a UK rag reviewing an Africa Twin and saying anything other than "It's old" and "I prefer a sportsbike"...?
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I'm about to get my last copy of Motorcycle Sport and Leisure. Since the new editor took over it's been 50% cut and pasted from RIDE; all bright colours and too many quotes about weights and speeds! Think I'll put the subscription fee in the petrol fund.
Andy
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I'm about to get my last copy of Motorcycle Sport and Leisure. Since the new editor took over it's been 50% cut and pasted from RIDE; all bright colours and too many quotes about weights and speeds! Think I'll put the subscription fee in the petrol fund.
Andy
And give over another font of knowledge to the plastic projectile brigade - why not start an action to get the editor / editorial changed?
To walk away is easy - I know I have done it - but to make a difference takes action.
Just a thought.
R
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Well it was a nice bit of vid i thought.
Bikes to fast nowadays? Nope, theyre only as fast as the person riding them. When you look at the speed of the bikes in that vid compared to the brakes and handling its actually no worse than riding a Triumph for example of yesteryear.
I think the Nanny state we live in nowadays has brain washed people into thinking that if you take risks your a bad person. Its a load of old crap. All bikes are a risk and are meant for fun and stupidity. If you wanna be practical and boring you buy a nice family hatchback or a goldwing ;D
Oh, do i ride a big single cause its slow and the likes? Do i hell, i ride one of my thumpers cause it is great off road and the other big thumper i have i ride cause its great for hooning around narrow roads and the likes and can leave faster bikes in a cloud of dust.
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i go nuts on my cbr600 every now and then, but like these two i only put myself at risk. i slow to the speed limits through villages and towns and when around other traffic.
with my way of riding if it all goes wrong its only me that gets it. its only stupid when others are put at risk, or you are not aware of how much of a risk you are taking.
bullet350
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My point exactly Gentlemen, they *were* putting others at risk, they were obviously riding outside either their limits or the bikes, or he wouldn't have fallen off on a dry sunny road would he?
Yes brakes and handling are better, but they're also incapable of making 120+ safe when the rest of the muppets expect you to be doing 60, and can 90% of the sportsbike riders use all that handling/power? The number who kill themselves on local roads would suggest otherwise.
I'm no nanny state advocate, I dive a rebreather, I ride a supermoto year round because it's fun. Yes I like hooning around on twisty roads, but that's why I ride a bike where it's possible to use full throttle without endangering any other poor sod who happens to be coming the other way.
If you want to endanger yourself I'll happily assist, I'll take you on dives that people consider excessively risky, because every single decision you make and I make is a calculated risk, but pushing your limits is different from being stupid, and down there if you kill yourself you wont take me with you.
If you want to use a bike for "stupidity" (your word not mine) then I hope you do it on the dirt bike, because no amount of apologies or excuses will help if you hit a pedestrian/car/other biker/kid and you CANNOT say you wont on public roads.
Every ride out I've been on with this club we've said to people "ride within your limits, don't chase if you're uncomfortable", sadly it often falls on deaf ears. I wont tell you what speed to ride at, or what bike to ride, that's your choice. I can't and wont tell you what risks to take or where to take them. But don't tell me these guys were in control, because they weren't, and there was clearly other traffic about so they were not only either on the edge of control or the edge of out of control they were being b***y selfish in doing it where they could quite easily wipe out a third party... who doesn't get to choose >:(
And don't tell me that they're only as fast as the rider, show me a sportsbike rider who doesn't speed and I'll show you a liar, it's pointless having them unless you're going to open them up and unfortunately the statistics are now proving lots of riders can't handle them :(
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Er... OK :o
Good points all round I'd say.
I'm no fan of restricting personal freedoms, but equally I can see that the rush to ride sportsbikes without building up your experience first is disquieting.
I spoke to a lad recently who asked me and my brother what bike to get after his test, "I really fancy a CBR400 or an NC30".
We replied, "Get a CB500, ER-5 or GS500 and ride the wheels off that for a year first"
He didn't seem keen.
I discussed this with an acquaintance who teaches people to ride and he agreed on our suggestions and added that people should be made aware that the riding position of a sportsbike is not safe for new riders as it reduces the level of machine control in certain circumstances. I thought this was an interesting point and one I had never considered. He also said that the newbie custombike of choice (at the minute), the Suzuki Marauder 125, was equally difficult to ride because of its riding position. But, he concluded, you just can't tell people what to ride.
Without the 125cc (and 250cc) learner restrictions that we all had to endure, there is little chance of a newbie taking his or her time to learn to ride on a less powerful bike before progressing up.
GC
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Hi All
A couple of thoughts sparked by GBR and Bullet350...
Are modern bikes too fast - lets have some context please - is an R6 too potent for the average young buck who has just passed his test - probably. It may only be as fast as the right wrist makes it - but I seem to remember (he he) that the very essence of being a young buck on a bike was to streach the throttle cable to its limit and then pooh yourself braking.It is true - using me as one data point - but I also used to be a M/C instructor - that I have fallen off more small bikes than big. However - and this is where even with their modern (tele forks modern - nope fashion not modern but we digress) suspension, brakes, tyres etc they are far more 'dangerous' than my old Triton - if she was running. They may stop quicker, they may be more poised, but the Triton does a ton ten maybe a ton twenty flat out - bits falling off, vision blurred etc. An R6 tops 150? A 996 tops what 180? I have slowed a lot as I have aged, but some time back I was tested on a simplistic rig for reaction time to hazards - well it was really reaction time to apply brake - not assess situation etc. However my reaction time over a run of 10 was less than .2 seconds, the average they had tested was .3 to .5 seconds. They had tested a number of world class racers and I was proud to be as fast as them - mind they would have not got into the problems I had etc.. :-) But from this we can see that on my Triton hooning along I would be looking at shall we say a ton (by this time the speedo had fallen off etc) at a ton I am doing 176000 yards per hour, 160934 M per hour or about 44.5 Metres per second. So the average rider will travel between 22.25 metres and 13.5 metres before they react. The R6 jock will be doing at the same point - 130? 29 to 17.5 metres - quite a bit further - this is not a one off this is all the time - efectivly on a 'slower' bike I would have some 30% more time to react - whilst still scaring the pants off of myself. Then there is the impact problem - my physics falls down here - a 'modern' bike accelerates so much quicker that you are probably doing greater speed anywhere - the momentum etc is that much greater. I also think the most scared I have ever been on a bike was riding a Yamaha Passat - no it is not a passat that is a VW - Passola? (50cc step through)
The guys in the vid not endangering anyone else? I would suggest working on your observation skills - there are plenty of people who have been threatened - including pedestrians stepping out of the way.
Do I think big fast bikes should be banned - nope they are a fine thing, however do I think our fixation with big fast bikes will have a detrimental effect on all bikes - yes most certainly. Our fixation is the biggest threat to M/C in the UK it is something we (M/Clists have it in our power to address - but whilst we consider it a threat to our freedom to actually ask - WHY? enough time, then the nanny lobby will win through.
R
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A couple of much more reasoned responses than my last :-[
Apologies if I have upset anyone, carry on the discussion(!) ;)
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A couple of much more reasoned responses than my last :-[
No worries Smudge, it's good to have a bit of banter and if some of it ends up in shouting then I'm sure we all know we're big and clever enough to shake hands afterwards.
I've enjoyed the forum today, keep up the good work ;)
GC
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It's those Antipodeans again! ;D He lost it on the dusty 'Big Red' paw prints! :P
As for MSL plagiarising (sp ???) RIDE, I only buy MSL these days and have to agree that the content has gone 'byte size' rather than a 'good read' :( Perhaps a gentle chide to the Ed before suspending, as I do still enjoy some of the articles.
Alternatively, I should suspend all mags, memberships and computing, then be off to the workshop! ::) Really must apply myself.
Herumph, Bill.
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What a couple of selfish people. If it was a closed circuit, then fantastic! But it wasn't. How many cyclists did they nearly hit? And what about that gorgeous campervan they could have wrecked - sacrilegious.
He was very lucky, 5 feet sooner and he would have missed the wall and left the road............
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A lot was filmed on a remote camera - suggesting that they ran the same stretch a number of times - like when he bins it there is a camera running - sounds more and more like a couple of twats to me, trying to go as fast as they could for the camera. As the commentator said - they had the crown jewels out seeing who had the biggest crown. The more I watch the more I wonder. I am all for having a good blat - and ill health / lack of income aside would love to have my Rd500 fettled and working - but this couple?????
I would worry about a prosecution for racing on the road if a similar law exists where they were riding - from this.
R
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I have always held that it is easier to learn motorcycle control on something with a soft and flexible engine like an Enfield than on a lightweight and relatively peaky 125. Its not just about power, it is also about delivery.
There again I firmly believe that car drivers should learn in an old style Lada (no power steering) with a sharp 6" spike coming out of the centre of the (non-collapsible) steering wheel. And no seat belt for the driver.
Morris Minors may also be acceptable.
Richard
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I have always held that it is easier to learn motorcycle control on something with a soft and flexible engine like an Enfield than on a lightweight and relatively peaky 125. Its not just about power, it is also about delivery.
There again I firmly believe that car drivers should learn in an old style Lada (no power steering) with a sharp 6" spike coming out of the centre of the (non-collapsible) steering wheel. And no seat belt for the driver.
Morris Minors may also be acceptable.
Richard
....It should be compulsory that all car drivers should spend a year riding a motorcycle before they can take their car test... it might stop so many of the bast**ds trying to drive inside my exhaust pipe every bloody day! >:(
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....It should be compulsory that all car drivers should spend a year riding a motorcycle before they can take their car test... it might stop so many of the bast**ds trying to drive inside my exhaust pipe every bloody day! >:(
It's funny you should say that, my Dad's not one for strong opinions but he's said more than once that people should be obliged to take out a bike licence for a year before they are allowed to apply for a car licence. Reckoned it would give some of them a much better appreciation of how scary a bike can be near badly driven cars and also a better appreciation of the road surface.
Also couldn't hurt the congestion!!
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Add to that a year on a push bike before they get a motor. Despite all the drivel in MCN at the mo I think you learn so much more about some aspects on a pushbike than on M/C - and loads more on a M/C than in a car.
So we are agreed a logbook showing substantial milage on a pushbike from 16 to 17 (min) then ditto form 17 to 18 (min) on a M/C then at least a year in an old banger of a car.
Also think there should be some sort of re-testing to keep a licence - and maybe this should go through the loop too - cycle, M/C car etc...
R
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Ahhh, now you are putting words in my mouth ;)
No, I'd allow mopeds from 14yrs, (strictly 50cc 35mph max, throw the (big) book at them if caught on anything else)
Then 17 motorcycle licence only, but you *must* hold a full (restricted or unrestricted) bike licence before you can get a provisional.
17 on car licence if qualified, but "p" plates and a say a 1300cc max capacity for the first year...
Alternatively allow a restricted bike licence between 16 and 17.
Benefits: More aware car drivers,
Learners starting with "road sense" aquired on mopeds
more people used to two wheels so there will be more remaining on two wheels in future therefore reduced congestion and we get to save the planet and reduce wear on the roads as a side effect...
Thoughts? ;D
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Rog,
I'll go with the first two wholeheartedly. Most of the lads I grew up with did exactly that. Not sure about the last one although it would certainly solve congestion problems. How ofted would you suggest a retest? There'd be L-plates and yellow jackets everywhere, the test centres and training schools would make an absolute fortune. I think retesting after certain driving offences, bans or repeated offences would be a good idea. I also think a certain amount of basic maintenance should be included in the test. Checking if your lights are working is not enough. I'm not too sure about the current bike licensing laws anyway. If you're over 21 you can do a Direct Access and go from L-plates to an R1 in the time it takes to do your test. Perhaps a year with restricted bhp might be safer.
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ok, restrictions don't work because bikes are built/modified around the criteria and the police can't catch people for it anyway without a workshop examination.
Just enforce the dangerous/careless riding laws. The R1 rider will lose his licence to a speed camera quickly anyway ;) ::)
Retest for any licence every ten years, or fifteen if you have passed an advanced test in the interim.
Automatic retest for a dangerous driving conviction or drunk driving.
Do I get the vote? :P
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Did anyone notice the litter on the road that sent the first guy wide in the first instance? Personally I think the less people are interfered with the better! We don't need to be governed/interfered with/ nannied/regulated or generally mucked about by Polies and beaurocrats any more than we already are. Sure these two were riding like a matching pair of plonkers but that doesn't mean that people like me need to be further restricted or monitored to compensate. If they want to behave in that sort of manner then there is ample law to deal with it. Enforce the law on those that have no regard for it and leave the rest of the generally law biding (sp30s aside) to get on with their life without let or hindrance or surveillance.
Steffan
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Ahhh, now you are putting words in my mouth ;)
No, I'd allow mopeds from 14yrs, (strictly 50cc 35mph max, throw the (big) book at them if caught on anything else)
Then 17 motorcycle licence only, but you *must* hold a full (restricted or unrestricted) bike licence before you can get a provisional.
17 on car licence if qualified, but "p" plates and a say a 1300cc max capacity for the first year...
Alternatively allow a restricted bike licence between 16 and 17.
Benefits: More aware car drivers,
Learners starting with "road sense" aquired on mopeds
more people used to two wheels so there will be more remaining on two wheels in future therefore reduced congestion and we get to save the planet and reduce wear on the roads as a side effect...
Thoughts? ;D
I might want to change the numbers here and there but this is basically what I'd go for. Maybe the 14's should be restricted to daylight (plus school/saturday job opening times for those old enough to have a good reason to be out later) and bikes with an unrestricted HP limit rather than worrying too much about them fiddling with their speed limiters. I'd also want a very easy route to 125cc scooter ownership at 17/18 and a harder car test simply on congestion/fuel use grounds.
My idea would be to make it a lot of work (rebore) to increase the performance and reduce the times they can ride like muppets. It would be worth the manufacturers coming up with a 33 mph, 37cc, 300 mpg scoot if every 14-18 year old in the country was a potential customer. 50's and 125's then become a market for people who want to trade up with less cash outlay until they get a proper job (students, trainee's etc). I think it gets better as employers taking on 21 year olds would expect them not to be able to drive a car and would put them through more controlled training.
Andy
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Retests.... Well actually I think we should all attain IAM - or equiv - standard within 5 years or go back to the start. Reexamine IAM every 5 years - not L plates etc, just a confirmation of driving standards.
Also I think the licence points should be more encouraging - say start with 3 points available and add one for each year driving. Johhny flyboy in his CLio with drilled pipes could loose his licence in the first week, 6 months or a year off and then retest etc. However someone riding for 10 years with no offenses would now be up to 13 points, 20 years 23 points. A small lapse by an experiances (and IAM std) driver will nt cost as much as the same by a novice. I also like the French insurance approach - they make it pretty cheap to start with and then increase it loads if you have an accident - seems reasonable to me.
R
BTW I am not IAM std so I am not talking about others....
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I have a big issue with the IAM idea. When you join you are like some public school bullies "Fag", buying his petrol, tea and cakes until a newer rider comes along. Could just be the local boys but they were a very poor example here abouts last time I checked. 50 mph in a 30 zone (and I saw the woman with the pram despite Mr IAM saying I made it up!), no thanks >:(
Now a proper test or training course, that'd do nicely. The police bikesafe is very good.
Andy
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OK Point taken - as I have said before I gave up on the Northampton IAM as they seemed to think that you needed a BMW and a broom handle up your arse before you could be considered a rider - and me on a RD500 was just the spawn of Satan. However the point was an IAM standard or equivilent - Do RoSPA still do their Gold Star? - Mind I do prefer the IAM 'making progress' rather than the RoSPA 'speed limits are god' approach. I feel our standard test may be OK as a starting point but we use it as an end point - we should all be expected to reach a much higher standard than we do and maintain it. SO yes you are right - or I recognise - from a couple of experiances with the IAM they can be like public school boys and fagging.
R
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I did my IAM course on a Suzuki Katana 550 that had to be bumpstarted ::)
GC
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Sounds like a case for writing to the IAM to complain about the behaviour of their members!
I did mine with the Edinburgh lot and the only time I paid for the tea/buns was my own choice when I failed to spot the 50mph signs that everybody ignores on the city bypass then spent a while at 70 wondering why my observer was *wayyyy* behind me :-[ it's a sort of workplace rule in my line of work that when you foul up in a big and embarrasing way it's your shout so I volunteered them!!
I certainly didn't pay for anyone else's petrol!
There was one muppet who was convinced he new more about everything to do with bikes then any "trainee" without actually bothering to find out what experience I had, but I only met him once and the others were very good indeed. Hence why I recommend the IAM to others, the ones I dealt with ran a very good and useful course.
Personally I take bits of their system and discard others, and the speed limit is considered a hard limit not advisory for the IAM, but you can still make excellent progress within that limitation! ;)
I would say if you meet groups or observers whose behaviour could give the association a bad name then write to the association and tell them, then find another group.
Can't speak for the bikesafe scheme as I haven't tried it but I've heard good things about it.
I have a big issue with the IAM idea. When you join you are like some public school bullies "Fag", buying his petrol, tea and cakes until a newer rider comes along. Could just be the local boys but they were a very poor example here abouts last time I checked. 50 mph in a 30 zone (and I saw the woman with the pram despite Mr IAM saying I made it up!), no thanks >:(
Now a proper test or training course, that'd do nicely. The police bikesafe is very good.
Andy
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well, i did the IAM thing on both bike and car about 20 years ago, when the kids wanted to learn to drive/ride, I figured i should do something like that rather than pass on all my bad habits.
certainly then, the IAM membership seemen to be populated by old duffers on bmw's or driving rovers.
and the idea of paying an annual subscription just so's i could say 'I'm in the IAM' seems bluddy potty! there were no other benefits (i see the IAM still propogate the myth of cheaper insurance)
So i just paid for the year i did my 'observed' riding/driving, and left it at that.....but it's the old thing about 'on that particular day, you drove / rode to a particular standard' you might never ride or drive to that standard again......although, to be fair....I got a lot of good information and tips from it....which i do try to encorporate into my everyday road use.
But......3 years ago I did the local 'Bikesafe' had to wait 6 months to get on it, permanently oversubscribed!....Now that was EXCELLENT.....4 evenings in the classroom with informal discussions, films showing techniques, lectures from police riders etc, there were always at least 4 police riders present each evening, and a nicer bunch of blokes it would be hard to find, then on the Saturday we assembled at 9 and went out for observed runs, 1 police rider to 2 students, covered over 200 miles round norfolk, stopping every 30 minutes for a de-brief and discussion about all the things we should be putting into practice (funny.....when there are 2 bikers in a layby standing next to a copper with a clipboard....bluddy idiot car drivers going past laughing...prats), then back to headquarters for a final debrief.....tea and biccies....and presentation of 't' shirts and certificate.....money well spent.......and as they said at the time....to the best of their knowledge no biker that had attended Bikesafe (in norwich) over the previous 6 years had been involved in a reported accident....must mean something...
I recommend the bikesafe course to anyone