Thumper Club Forum
Technical => Project Progress => Topic started by: Moto63 on May 29, 2025, 03:42:11 PM
-
Having bought the Honda cb250rs from Kev(Berlin) last week, I’ve had a couple of small outings on it. Lovely bike, definitely as good as remembered mine to be back in the early 80’s.
So....Why not build a lovely little rs250 street tracker🤔 I already had a few RS bits kicking around in my garage. So I’ve decided I’m going for it. The big thing I need is an rs250 engine, no immediate panic as I can use the one from Kevin’s bike as a mock up for the time being. I’ve already gathered a lot of bits to get a rolling chassis. I’m taking a lot to be soda blasted next week. Then the tug welder will be getting some use. I’m afraid I don’t know how to post photos. Especially now my go to man Mathee has generally left the site. He used to do them for me.
I fully intend to have this one finished within 5months, ready for winter...oh and hopefully the Stafford show 🤞
Cheers, Michael
-
Aye Michael,
OH! Really? Hovering mudguards and all! ;) ;) ;)
I'd be willing to post up your images or give a bit of tutelage, if you would prefer?
Crack on, Bill
-
Aye Michael,
OH! Really? Hovering mudguards and all! ;) ;) ;)
I'd be willing to post up your images or give a bit of tutelage, if you would prefer?
Crack on, Bill
That would be most appreciated Bill, thanks.
No levitating mudguards on this one though, just a nice ally fixed one 😁.
My plan is to crack on with this one, ready for winter. Then over the winter months I’ll crack on and get the XBR tracker finished.
I can email photos, just don’t know how to post them on this site. So if you don’t mind me emailing you some pics from time to time, that’d be great 👍
Cheers, Michael
-
PM'd you.
Bill
-
Having bought the Honda cb250rs from Kev(Berlin) last week, I’ve had a couple of small outings on it. Lovely bike, definitely as good as remembered mine to be back in the early 80’s.
So....Why not build a lovely little rs250 street tracker🤔 I already had a few RS bits kicking around in my garage. So I’ve decided I’m going for it. The big thing I need is an rs250 engine, no immediate panic as I can use the one from Kevin’s bike as a mock up for the time being. I’ve already gathered a lot of bits to get a rolling chassis. I’m taking a lot to be soda blasted next week. Then the tug welder will be getting some use. I’m afraid I don’t know how to post photos. Especially now my go to man Mathee has generally left the site. He used to do them for me.
I fully intend to have this one finished within 5months, ready for winter...oh and hopefully the Stafford show 🤞
Cheers, Michael
Michael.
I’m glad all is well with the Cb250rs.
You realise, of course, that you are now a hostage to fortune as a result of “finished within 5 months, ready for winter…….and hopefully the Stafford Show”.
The performance police will be monitoring you closely.!
😂😂😂😂
-
Kevin.
Given that my xbr650 Tracker has been on the bench for the last ten, yes ten, years. 🙄🤣 I think I need the “performance police” on my case. Keep me in check.
In my defence, regarding the XBR tracker taking so long. I had just started it when I had my accident. That put paid to just about everything for about 8 to 10 months. Then being a gluten for punishment, I decided to take on our house build.
HOWEVER..... I’m obviously all fixed up now, the house build is 99.5% complete. So I can now devote more time back on my bikes.....AT LAST 🙄
Plus, the RS tracker is a far simpler build than the XBR tracker.
I’m really looking forward to getting stuck into it, ideally just need a decent condition RS engine to slot into it🤞
Ps... the XBR tracker is now about 80% complete 😉
Cheers, Michael
-
You could always pop the XBR engine in it. I'm told it's easy.......
-
Well I’m afraid you’ve been misinformed Ian. It’s definitely not easy. The XBR is a traditional cradle type frame. Where as the RS is hung from the main spine under the tank, and bolted through the frame just in front of the swinging arm. It’s the Honda FT500 which is a simpler swap.
Plus I don’t really want that kind of power for this project, it’s essentially going to be ridden during the winter months. So the RS250’s power is ideal.
Cheers, Michael
-
I'm sure you're right, Michael. When I was complaining my 250RS was underpowered that's what I was told!
-
“finished within 5 months, ready for winter…….and hopefully the Stafford Show”.
The performance police will be monitoring you closely.!
😂😂😂😂
I am watching you Michael 🤓
-
Well Ian. I couldn’t wish for a better performance pooleece man to keep his eye on me 👁.
And if the little rs tracker turns out anywhere near as nice as your yams. I’ll be a happy chappie.
I’m hoping it will be a relatively quick build as I’m basically keeping the rs rolling chassis & engine. All fully stripped, blasted & repainted. Then altering the subframe, new seat, different tank.
So nothing like as involved as the XBR tracker.
Anyway. Health permitting, you WILL see me at the Stafford show with it in October.
Cheers, Michael
-
Right.... before I go any further. I’ve had some news regarding the frame I was going to use for this project. Looking extremely likely that it was, at some point a pinched bike/frame. Hence I can’t proceed much further until.
A... I sort this issue out with the dvla
B... I buy another frame + logbook
So... I’m retracting my initial claim of completing this within a 5 month period 🙄🤦???
-
:( OH! A bit like hot copper pipe then?
That really is not a good surprise to have. Maybe finish the 650 tracker, rather than cluttering up the joint, with another load of bits/scrap?
Look after No.1
Bill
-
:( OH! A bit like hot copper pipe then?
That really is not a good surprise to have. Maybe finish the 650 tracker, rather than cluttering up the joint, with another load of bits/scrap?
Look after No.1
Bill
I totally hear what you’re saying Bill. But the 650 tracker has been done to a reasonably high standard. I didn’t really want to take it out in the slimy winter grime.
The idea of doing the RS was that I wouldn’t do it to such a high standard. So I wouldn’t be overly fussed about taking it out during the winter months. Plus the RS’s power is ideal for those slimy, greasy/salted up winter roads.
I’m not giving up just yet. I see it as a set back. A set back I could do without, but a set back. I’m not down and out yet.
Cheers, Michael
-
;D Yorkshire gritstone! ;)
Bill
-
Well.... had a bit of good news today. The frame I’ve got is genuine. Long, boring story which I honestly can’t be bothered typing it all.
Anyway, it’s all systems go now. So I’ll forward Bill a few photos as he’s kindly offered to post them fir me 👍
The performance pooleece can start watching from today because the “different tracker” project is back on 👍😉
Cheers, Michael
-
Michael's post and images.
"Here’s the first pic of the RS tracker project. A butchered frame, swinging arm and wheels.
For all the purists out there, the frames sub-frame had already been removed before I got it. I’ve
just removed the brackets that had been welded on. I now intend to get it all over to the soda
blasters, then once back I’ll fabricate a new rear sub-frame and take things from there.
I hope the performance pooleece will be on the ball to keep me on my toes 😉?"
Uploaded by Bill
-
👍
-
Rapid acquisitions! 2 posts, the first of a manky engine, the second after pressure washing.
Michael's notes follow:
"The engine I bought off fleabay arrived this morning, it was exactly as the seller had described,
pretty tatty looking but you could tell it wasn’t quite as bad as it looked under the grime. Here are 5
photos of the offending item. I think there’s two before and three after it had undergone a quick
degrease and wash. It’s already come up to a reasonable finish. I am just having trouble with the
bottom bolt in the front mounting bracket, seized solid it is. :(
Once I’ve removed the troublesome bolt I’ll give it another good degrease and wash. I ultimately
want to strip it, check it all over internally, refresh it and have the casings re-coated. Sadly the
bloke I used to use is now retired. So if anyone knows of a very good/decent engine builder please
let me know👍🤞
Frame, swinging arm, wheels and a few bits and pieces are now at the blasters getting......eerr. Blasted 😁"
Uploaded by Bill
-
Second post re: engine acquisition images after pressure washing.
Uploaded by Bill
-
Michael, you certainly have the bit between your teeth on this one......I told you I'm watching you 😂
-
Ahh… yes Ian I do have the bit between my teeth with this one. It’s great to be able to finally get back in the workshop and do some messing with bikes. Instead of being consumed by the house build. Yes. I know it’s a first world problem 😏
However. Things on the bike front definitely took a downward spiral yesterday, once I started stripping the engine down. I’m sure Bill will post up the pics in good time. Anyway onward and upward old chap.
Cheers Michael
-
Looky, looky, inside the eBay engine! :o
Well, it's a good job that I took the decision to strip the RS engine I bought off fleabay. Don't think the damage to that piston will polish out do you. So my plan is to fully strip it all. Get all the cases sent for vapour blasting. Then get the engine fully rebuilt. With a shiny new piston. Professionally.
So. I hope the progress poo Leece are taking note of all this work 😁😉
Uploaded by Bill
-
I din't think I've evr seen one quite as bad as that. Meanwhile I'm still string to get the right bits for my little Beeza, at the same time have discovered a stripped thread in the Norton's primary chaincase so that's all in bits. The B'Zuki - so far - is still performing well.
-
Nowt wrong with that piston that a good tig welder can't put right 😉.
Ahhh the joys of buying off eBay
-
Nowt wrong with that piston that a good tig welder can't put right 😉.
Ahhh the joys of buying off eBay
Yeah, I can’t see that polishing out with a dab of solvol can you🤣😜
-
It has been suggested that having tried NO2 fuel by somebody on FB, you might change the ratio! Joolz might care to comment?
Have seen this happen before when running NO2 at 25lbs flow and 100lbs boost
Would recommend running 15/80 next time
Another FB suggestion was that "..... forget the 250 engine and look for an XL500". However, this extra poke is not what is intended, more of a pootler for Pennine byways. ;)
A similar fate has also been experienced by a past owner on FB.
Back in the day that happened to my 2nd RS on the way back from London to Manchester and keeping 65/70 on the road I had forgotten to top up the oil and bike died. Needed new piston. Luckily it did not seize on me it just lost power.
Toodle pip, Bill
-
Is that engine even rebuildable?
-
Take a look at this....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/277188578845?_skw=honda+cb250rs&itmmeta=01JXPVAD8EN5N0YRYB849AKHG0&hash=item4089ba0e1d:g:scQAAOSwIyVoRqWI&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1cF%2B6Jc6yEFaFZZnNBTRAcBQ%2F59JsTLX7dX%2BFzHsbVjTH%2FcAD8Us6K9W33CPWSVZti9ZK8r%2FP5s9Y5yPrlZS9ZlkAv5%2FHaJ2jV54NzTF%2BwxBodlcUbFmtmoebr34P91uyUj0wC6o6DOEWFmpGthnaocyzp%2Fu4moXJyErwwQG3p3EcCJIsaXD7c7MLZdAgXrzFLD01qT17Vk8DWCNgtIlIWNg0xySJa4u%2B9p8EyVkwNW4gd4mCPfQrdiub67N4%2FKzyY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6bUqdvtZQ
-
And this....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256486015552?_skw=honda+cb250rs+engine&itmmeta=01JXPVH8BNAM37F39F7MV8V5JF&hash=item3bb7c20240:g:1eoAAOSwaj9mI6Uj&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1ehdnUXeQzs7C29NakcpfAGpvaeOaCHGGckJsIHUjvaPWONSKyzeOHrb0DAzADw570Zc7I2M5ZVzDem3torWqxBGyH5VCJsOuuRIk2cYxPpKAMZZoyssn%2FG0wzZhXGgZziPH%2BntXLmxmV1Jc5R6PK4gcUaqIwZtn6NkhVvaKJR%2FsGMECzVIqpEzlGuolZmh%2Br1xditCUlRp8TaHCtgIEZ1NaQei%2BUKjw3S%2BYoxZwnNOZHfVY1OfYqCpYrbdRIDgPktWHxAlT5Qx7gy2XyUfAlgoUhhBcFve3QraE88Nf1gCdw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-6HxdvtZQ
-
Is that engine even rebuildable?
Well… ultimately Martin. Everything is rebuildable, all comes down to how deep one’s pockets are really.
Many thanks for both the links you posted. The little cafe racer and the leccy Start engine. I have looked at both previously. The cafe racer I dismissed as I don’t need a complete bike. The engine I dismissed as I figured. That’s another £500 and, again ultimately I don’t know what I’m buying, condition wise. So I’d rather spend that £500 on sorting out the one I’ve already got. I know £500 won’t get the engine completely sorted but will hopefully go a fair way to seeing it running again. I fully intend to keep the “different tracker” once it’s finished, so I want the engine to be of a decent standard, certainly internally.
Thanks again for taking the time to find/post the links up.
I just see the knackered engine as a slight set back.
Onward and upward
Cheers, Michael
-
Good luck with the project Michael. When I first got into RS250s around the turn of this century bikes and parts were dirt cheap. How things have changed. I got 2 massive lots of spares including engines for very little money. If only prices had remained at a reasonable level.
-
Yes. Martin …. Sadly nothing is cheap anymore. 😔
Like you though, I’m thoroughly enjoying riding the RS I bought off Kevin. Lovely, light and nimble. Certainly takes me back to 1981 when I bought one new HVH 212W A red one. Riding it has also made me realise that I made the right decision in selling the grom to buy it. I can definitely see why you’re hanging on to yours.
I’m confident that once I’ve actually built the “different tracker” it’ll be a cracking little bike, properly sorted, definitely a keeper.👍
Cheers, Michael
-
Images of the cylinder head from the eBay engine.
That's the weird thing, the cylinder liner, valves, cam all appear to be in "reasonable" condition. Given the actual engine must be at least 40yrs old.
The first thing I thought when I first clocked eyes on it, was oil starvation, but then on closer inspection of everything else, it almost doesn't tally up. 🤷
Then reading the bit from the bloke on farcebook who says he did the same thing to his going from London to Manchester. Maybe it was simply oil starvation. Guess we'll never truly know. Unfortunately it will just take longer and clearly cost me more money to sort.
I had always intended to strip it, to refresh it generally.
Just got to be a case of onwards and upwards. It was always risky buying it blind, but in fairness to the breaker I bought from. He did clearly state that he knew nothing about the history of the engine as he'd bought it as part of a "job lot" from another breaker who was going in to bankruptcy.
I suspect that a weak mixture, poor oil supply/quality/lack of changing and full throttle caused the granulation of the piston and when finally it was starting to break apart it chapped the valves, but by this time it was so metalurgically compromised the resistance to the steel valves was like putty!
I just wonder how much granular aluminium you will find in the sump and maybe smeared on other working and bearing surfaces?
All the best with it.
Uploaded by Bill
-
Rather you than me Michael. But it's a great project to post up on here (with Bill's help).
I'm no expert on engines by any means but good luck to you.
From my very limited understanding the oil pump will need serious examination too I'd imagine.
I recall Bob Berry's problems with his CBX1000 IIRC in Classic Motorcycle Mechanics , circa the 90's when some blast material got inside and ruined his newly rebuilt engine which again IIRC was being carried out by one of the well known specialists at that time.
I like your philosophical approach! ;)
-
I think I'd be looking at that complete bike assuming you could hear the engine running*. You could probably flog off the rest of it. As has been said, further horrors are likely to emerge with this one.
Re bead blasting: a long time ago I had a Triumph Stag which was a lovely car. It was let down by the state of the cam covers so I whipped them off and put them in to be bead blasted and powder coated. They did look lovely. A few days later the oil pressure gauge was dancing up and down. What I hadn't realised twas that under one of the covers was some steel mesh to act as a sort of breather filter. This had captured the beads which then found their way all over the engine. There were deep grooves in the oil pump and the engine was effectively a write off.
*Oh, just seen it's been sold for £650. There's another for £800 or offers: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/306352937578
-
I intend to send as many different photos over to the bloke who I hope will be rebuilding the engine. If he advises me against it then I go to plan B.
Not quite sure what that is yet but I’m sure I can come up with one 😁😉
In the meantime I should be getting the wheels and frame back from the soda blasters in a few days time. That’ll give me something else to focus on. I’ve got to firm a completely new subframe as the original had been cut off. Should keep me out of mischief for a few days.
Ps… I am (if I continue with this engine 🙄) getting the casings, barrel etc vapour blasted Ian. Which obviously only uses water and not any form of medium.
I’ll post up what the “expert” says once he’s had a look at some photos and got back to me 😁🤞
Cheers, Michael
-
Aye Michael, it has been suggested that the head gasket let go, you can see that there is a darkened area to the left of the two valves that are salmon tan in colour. This could be the cause of the weak mixture, high temperatures, etc., leading to the granulation of the piston and its failure. Maybe worth checking those mating surfaces for truth etc?
Best, Bill
-
Having given the grenaded engine a lot of thought and having spoken to the Dave from D&M engineering about it. I’ve decided that I’m “in for a penny, so I’m in for a pound” (probably quite a few in this case🙄)
If I don’t spend the money to get it repaired, who will. Probably no one. So it’ll probably end up scrapped. Yet other R/S engine that ends up going to that Honda scrap yard in the sky.
Plus, no matter I buy, I don’t ultimately know what I’m buying. Even if it’s a runner, the one I’ve bought off Kevin might go pop for all know.
So, I’m going to continue to strip it and get it all over to D&M engineering and let them work their mechanical magic on it 🤞
I’m going to see myself as the custodian of the little RS engine 👍
Cheers, Michael
-
There’s logic in that approach Michael. Once sorted, it stays sorted in your hands. Also, you’re preserving another r/s.
Kev
-
There’s logic in that approach Michael. Once sorted, it stays sorted in your hands. Also, you’re preserving another r/s.
Kev
Thanks for the encouragement Kevin. I kind of feel I need a bit of it at the moment 😁
On the upside, I collected the frame, wheels and assorted brackets from the soda blaster today. So I can now set to and get the subframe made up and welded in place. Oh, that’s once I’ve actually finished stripping the engine down 😏
The list just seems to be growing, day by day. I think this “quick” project will turn into yet another labour of love. HOWEVER, I am determined to get it, at least looking half finished ready for the Stafford show in October 🤞
Cheers, Michael
-
HOWEVER, I am determined to get it, at least looking half finished ready for the Stafford show in October 🤞
Cheers, Michael
😂🚨😂
-
Oh you may mock. You can buy your own jelly babies this year 🤣🤣
-
Just had a few progress photos sent over to me from the guy who’s rebuilding my 250rs engine. All the cerakoted black casings going back together on his bench. Hopefully be ready to pick up within the next few weeks 🤞
I’m steadily cracking on with the frame, well subframe to be exact.
Since I committed to spending a lot more than I’d expected on the engine rebuild, the project has taken a different path. I’m now intending to just move it on over the winter months, probably to a slightly higher standard than I first intended.
If anyone’s interested in having a look at the engine going back together I can ask Bill if he wouldn’t mind posting them up for me
Cheers. Michael
-
Aye Michael, I'll try my best, but hope to be at the Celtic Match racing at East Fortune. ;) Quick modern stuff, including the Crowe brothers from IoM!
The Bros front wheel stripped out today, with the wheel bearings (Koyo) finally calling it a day, with 108,000 miles behind them. New bearings and seals to be fitted. Whilst the 450 MKIII has had another 1,200 mile oil change/chain clean, re-oil and I note there is a bit more "breathing" going on that may need investigating. :-\
Keep spinning the spanners. ;)
All the best, Bill
-
108,000 miles 😮 Well at least they’ve paid for themselves eh😁
Enjoy the racing, hope the weather holds out and the track is a drying one 🤞
Cheers, Michael
-
Well. I’ve finally had a bit of spare time to get into the workshop and attack the little rs250 tracker project again. Fully stripped the front forks down, now got to send the stanchions off for hard chroming. Order up some new seals. I’ve also removed all the wheel bearings and ordered up replacements, along with new dust seals. I’ve de- spoked the original rims & hubs, so they are now ready to go and get painted ready for the new stainless steel spokes upon their return.
Still trying to find someone who can fabricate a full new subframe along with rear shock mounts as I’m probably going to be struggling for time to do it myself. 🤷???
So, things are starting move along at a decent pace again, thankfully 👍
Cheers, Michael
-
Well. I’ve finally been able to find a, decent, reputable company to hopefully do the subframe and shock mountings. Metal malarkey down in bishop’s castle. Having seen a few of the bike frames they’ve built over the years I think the little 250 will be in good hands. I realise it won’t be cheap, but figured, I’m keeping hold of this one so I want to doing properly. Plus I’m struggling for time (as usual 🙄)
I’m heading down there next Friday to have chat about what I want doing, and to get a costing. I’m taking my own chair to sit in when he gives me the figure. 😁.
Cheers, Michael
-
Glad to hear you're making progress with your latest project Michael. Keep up the good work. It's a nice ride out to Bishops Castle from where I live. We used to go and mooch around the town but usually in the car.
I'll be updating my none thumper winter project thread shortly. :)
-
Well…I finally managed to find time to get down to see Malcolm at metal malarkey today. What a joy to walk around his work with him while he showed me some of the projects they’re working on. Excellent quality workmanship on every level. As I said in my previous post I think my little RS frame will be in safe hands. I look forward to getting it back earn the new year🤞 Then I’ll ask Bill if he wouldn’t mind posting a few photos of it.
Cheers, Michael
-
Aye Michael, nae bother!
Good health, Bill
-
👍
-
Well…. A bit of movement at last on the little 250. Got the call on Friday that the engine rebuild was completed and ready for collection. So as luck would have it, yesterday (Saturday 21st) was exactly 6 weeks since my op so I was “allowed” to drive again. So jumped in the van and went down to Newark (anagram of😜) and collected it. The quality, certainly from the outside looks very good, hopefully the inside is as good🤞
So, my plan is, while I’m still waiting for the frame to come back from metal malarkey. I’m going to swap the engine in the standard RS (that I bought off kevberlin) so I can run it in over the summer months, I’ll use the engine out of the standard bike to do a “dry build” of the tracker when it’s ready. Then slot the rebuilt engine in once it’s all ready to go👍
Cheers, Michael
-
Sounds like a good plan, best of luck.
-
Yes Michael. Glad to hear you're getting back into your projects :)
-
Thanks chaps, yes I’m feeling much better now and glad to be able to start getting back in the old workshop to do a bit of fettling. I’ll ask Bill if he wouldn’t mind popping a pic up for me once I get the engine into the standard RS 🤞👍
Cheers, Michael
-
Yep!
-
Just a very quick update chaps (& ladies if there’s any reading 🤷???)
I’m recovering well after my OP back in January. So decided to get the newly rebuilt RS engine into the RS that I bought off Kevin last year. Everything went brilliantly, engine in, oil pumped round it, fired up 3rd or 4th kick. Felt brilliant compared to the engine that I’d taken out. Slotted 1st gear and rode down my driveway. Turned around at the bottom, ride back up. Pulls really well.
However it wouldn’t engage neutral. Tried a number of things to no avail. It’s stuck in first gear.
So… I’ve dropped it back off with the bloke that rebuilt it and he’s (hopefully🤞) going to sort it this coming week.
Meanwhile, the frame is moving on down at metal malarkey
Cheers, Michael
-
Oh dear. Don't you just love these projects! My own is still giving me a load of grief but I'm using my RS250 and RE Guerrilla.
Glad you're still making good progress after your op Michael. ;D
-
Bu**er! there'll be a shim missing, so split the cases again. No project work here, so far, even though there are 4 to go at. However, the Duke is getting an 1,100 mile oil change, along with new sprockets and chain after 8,000 miles and the Revere has been out cantering as well.
Sunday, off to East Fortune for the Sidecar Festival, which should be good if a little chilly and dry, all being well. A720 Edinburgh car park to negotiate so will be away early and probably home late.
Keep at it Michael and I'm pleased to read that recovery is positive.
BillR
-
Thanks to both of you chaps for your best wishes regarding my recovery 👍
Yes, I’m hoping it is something pretty simple like a shim that’s “forgotten” to be put in during the rebuild.
In fairness to the bloke who rebuilt it, he’s getting straight back on to it first job Monday morning. No quibbling or sucking through his teeth. So fingers crossed I’ll have it back this time next week 🤞
-
Let's have some pics from the festival Bill!
-
Aye Ian,
Unfortunately, I don't do a lot of paparazzi clicking these days, tending to just enjoy the moment, rather chasing a picture. However, I did stop behind the Quirks new 1,300cc, home built Vincent engined outfit, as it sat in the holding bay, before going out for the warm up lap. Mellow bellow! ;D ;D ;D Shooting a wee video on my wee camera. I haven't watched it yet myself as I snapped an upper molar on Saturday and paid a visit to my ever helpful dentist today for the extraction and had a wee sleep after. Unfortunately, I believe the forum won't manage a video, so if you would PM me your email, I'll send you the video via WeTransfer, if after review, it has turned out OK.
I know that you don't like Farcebook, but may I direct you to the Melville Motor Clubs page, where various links, images and videos of the event can be viewed: Melville_Motor_Club_Scotland_Facebook_link (https://www.facebook.com/melvillemotorclub)
Good health, Bill
-
Thanks Bill, I'll have a look at that page. Have PM'd my email for your video....
-
That Vin sounds great!
-
Aye Ian, I note new thread on Chatter, so will post there.
Good health, Bill
-
Right having hijacked this thread, Michael has asked me to get it back on course! ;)
So, attached is the latest update image of progress, with the modification of the Honda RS250 frame to achieve Michael's desired "tracker" machine.
Good health, Bill
-
Many thanks for posting the picture up Bill. Much appreciated 👍
Hopefully More to follow in the coming weeks. Cheers, Michael
-
Looks as if someone needs to liberate that poor bike!
-
What's the spec of the new engine Michael? With those mods I should imagine more power won't be a problem.
-
I haven’t gone for any “upgrades” with engine regarding the power Martin. Having ridden the standard RS I bought off Kevin for a year now, it totally fulfills what I want it to do, on the roads I take it on. So just had it rebuilt as standard, using genuine Honda parts where available, the rest are pattern parts. So hopefully it should be reliable, if not that fast 😁
I’ve now got the rebuilt engine into the RS I bought off Kevin so I can run it in over the summer months before it gets popped into the “different tracker” frame, when finished.
I took it out yesterday afternoon for a 65mile ride into the Yorkshire dales. It’s definitely an improvement on the old original engine that was in there. Definitely has a bit more torque.
Cheers, Michael
-
Thanks Michael.
So what was the problem with the rebuilt engine?
-
The neutral switch had “dislodged” upon reassembly and got stuck in the gear selector apparently 🤷???
That’s why I took it out yesterday afternoon to test ride it in the Yorkshire dales, plenty of gear changes required on some of them roads. It preformed without incident after 65miles🤞👍
I’m hopefully getting out tomorrow morning for another spin on it if the weather holds out🤞
The rose joint linkage on it is well past it’s best and extremely sloppy, which can’t be helping, plus I personally find the gear leave just a tad to short. I’m going to take the lever off my triumph speed twin and try that tomorrow, it’ll make it a direct lever change then, no sloppy linkage 🤞
Watch this space 😁
Cheers, Michael
-
Yes those gear linkages do develop a load of slop. I had to get my mechanic friend to strip and rebuild mine from a box full of used ones. I've just checked mine again as it's been a good few years since he did the work and yes they're quite sloppy again.I agree that a direct lever of the correct length would work better and yes the standard one is very short.
Something for me to ponder on too. The actual gear change is very positive once you remove the slop.
Weather here today is 100% better than the forecast so I hope you can get out tomorrow.
-
Yes, I’m going to put a glacier bush on the pivot spindle on the tracker when I’m building that up. Hopefully that’ll eliminate 90% of the sloppiness 🤞
I’ve packed the one I’m using now with grease which seems to have helped slightly.
The triumph lever didn’t have any where near enough offset, plus it would have definitely been to long.
I’m on the lookout for a standard RS gear lever for the tracker if your mate has one he’d like to part with for some folding cash 🤞😉
Cheers, Michael
Ps… have good ride 👍
-
Apologies to Michael for the tardy posting of his image of the rebuilt RS250 engine in an original chassis for running in purposes.
Best, Bill
-
Absolutely no need to apologise Bill, there was no rush whatsoever. Many thanks for posting it up for me.
Cheers… Michael 👍
-
Looking 👍😊
-
Thanks Martin, I’ve also temporarily put the wheels I’ve done for the RS tracker on there too, better brand new Bridgestone tyres on, plus stainless steel spokes. I’ll get a couple more Bridgestones on the original wheels then pop them back on once I start building the tracker up. They’ve made a huge difference to the feel of the handling, much more confidence in them👍
Cheers, Michael
-
:)I noticed the black rims,very nice.
-
3 images of progress with the tracker rebuild from Michael. I hope that the images are OK.
Good health, Bill
-
Many thanks for posting up the pics Bill👍
Hopefully they give a little bit more of an indication as to what the finished bike will generally look like. I’m really enjoying riding the standard RS that I bought off Kevin last year, in fact so much so that I’ve already put 600 miles on it since I swapped the engine for the fully rebuilt one. Another couple of hundred miles and I’m going to drop the oil and change it. I can feel it starting to free up a bit now, but still only using approximately half throttle.
I’m looking forward to getting the “250 tracker” finished as I’ll have it set up slightly better, so should be a joy to ride 🤞
Cheers… Michael
-
It seems to be coming along nicely now Michael.
Any plans for the bodywork, paint scheme or exhaust yet?
-
Hi Martin, yes finally starting to take shape. The body work is pretty much what you see on the photos. The petrol tank (Kawasaki KH125) and a seat, oh and there will be two S/S rolled mudguards. Colour will most likely be blue, that’s the original colour on the log book, so think I’ll stick with blue, although most likely be a matte finish. Think I’ll also stick with the general theme of the original RS tank, lighter blue with a darker blue stripe down the middle. I’m just in the process of trying to find out the best carb to go with, most likely a Mikuni. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
I’m really hoping to take it down to the oct Stafford show, even if it’s just in its completed but not painted dry build stage. Who knows, if I’m really lucky it may be just finished and painted🤞
Cheers,,, Michael
Oh….. and I found out the other day, apparently the “style” of bike I’m building is known as a Neo tracker.
That’s because it has the dna of a traditional tracker but with modern street bike twist
REALLY 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
-
Thanks Michael.
I can't help with the carb. All mine have been standard as far as I know (Keihin I'd assume) but I'd like mine to have a bit more go. Will you use an aftermarket filter and dispense with the airbox?
Neither am I up with the latest trendy bike types. It's all a bit beyond me. No doubt a certain Mr. H. C. will advise.
-
I'd like mine to have a bit more go.
How many miles has yours covered Martin?
The one a bought off Kevin ran as sweet as a nut, but I can’t believe the difference in the feel of the newly rebuilt engine now I’ve popped that into Kevin’s bike. Definitely more pull/torque. I think once I’ve put another couple of hundred miles and swapped the oil, I will start to rev it slightly higher, I’m pretty sure it will be considerably more powerful than the original engine.
I’ll let you know once I get to that point
Cheers, Michael
-
Hmmmm....
I've always thought mine lacks a bit of something....
I do have most of the old MOTs, even before they were computerised but anything could happen in the 3 years before an MOT is necessary, new Speedo etc...
I've had constant problems with a speedos breaking, glasses cracked or the needles breaking off but I guess mine must have covered at least 40,000 miles which is quite a lot for a small engine.
I did once have an RS 250 with well over 70000 miles on the clock and that ran as well as mine if I remember correctly but I've no idea if it had any engine work done, not do I know if my current one has.
I know from past experience that even a top end rebuild can be pretty expensive but I'm sure you must be right about the difference in performance between an old and newly rebuilt engine (if done correctly).
-
Hmmmm....
I know from past experience that even a top end rebuild can be pretty expensive but I'm sure you must be right about the difference in performance between an old and newly rebuilt engine (if done correctly).
Well I know from owning my first RS back in 1981 which I bought new, that regular oil changes are the key to preserving the RS engine. Because it’s a mesh filter which cannot be accessed easily, they tend to be left un maintained. So if the oil isn’t changed regularly then I’m sure I don’t to tell you of the obvious consequences. So that’s why I used to drop the oil at a maximum of every 1000 miles. I ended up putting a ridiculous amount of miles on that bike, as it was only form of transport back then. I then sold it to big bro in 1986 after running it for 5 years to buy my first xbr. He then ran it for 2 or 3 yrs as a work/ commuter bike.
Ultimately my point being, if it’s not changed regularly then the engine will wear out and start to become “under powered” due to wear. I enjoyed riding the bike I bought off Kevin so much I decided I’d get the other engine rebuilt, properly.
It was far from cheap, however I don’t intend to get rid of the 250 “neo” tracker 🤣 once it’s finished. So went for it, and like I say the difference is amazing 👍
Cheers, Michael
-
I have to say the 250RS I had a few years ago seemed very underpowered to me, struggling to reach - let alone top - 60. My weight of 100 kg may have had an effect however.....
Nice little bike though. I'm hoping the Herald will prove more sprightly. I've just ordered some used Yam rear suspension units as the originals are rock hard even with said 100kg on them.The general opinion in the fraternity is that the originals are useless. I've also ordered some black vinyl dye for theseat.
-
Hi Ian, yes the engine that was in Kevin’s bike was very similar to how you describe yours. It didn’t want to be revved above 6000 rpm, even tho the red line is at 9500 rpm. 6000rpm in 5th is approximately 60mph.
With the freshly rebuilt engine in, I’ve only ridden it with approximately half throttle and that is taking it to 6000rpm. So I’m guessing that once I can rev it higher it’ll most likely zip up to around the 80 mph mark. Plenty enough for what I want it for nowadays.
The original engine always started & never faltered when out riding it, and I covered a few hundred miles on it but could just tell the original engine was tired.
Oh and I changed the rear shock that Kevin had on to hagons, absolutely transformed the whole feel of the bike
Cheers , Michael
-
Yes mine struggles to get easily over 60 as well although it starts easily runs well enough and ticks over regularly but the doubt about its overall performance remains.
I've always changed the oil every 1000 miles with good quality motor bike oil.
I wonder if a compression test would help?
I seem to remember contemporary road tests indicated when these bikes were new the would do 90 mph. Mine's never been able to get anywhere near that speed, even on the clock.
-
Thinking further about this and with regards to the XBR 500s I've owned, I was always a bit disappointed they weren't as quick as I hoped either.
All the XBRs I've owned were well used relatively high mileage examples .
Most ran ok. I can only recall one which didn't.
So in all probability these probably suffered from similar rates of wear and tear with probably insufficient regular oil changes too.
-
I can remember when I had my first RS in 81. As a young lad, I bought it when I was 18. I used to thrash it just about everywhere, as young lads do. It definitely used to get me up to 75/80 mph. I used to have to try and keep up with big bro & his mates who all had 550 fours etc of the day.
So I think it is simply a case of wear in the engine/barrel. Just slightly down on power
-
I can remember when I had my first RS in 81. As a young lad, I bought it when I was 18. I used to thrash it just about everywhere, as young lads do. It definitely used to get me up to 75/80 mph. I used to have to try and keep up with big bro & his mates who all had 550 fours etc of the day.
So I think it is simply a case of wear in the engine/barrel. Just slightly down on power
Makes sense to me. As I said a compression check might be a good starting point for me possibly followed by a rebore and head check.
I'll canvass my mechanic friend who'll be doing the work. Could be a good winter project if some performance can be restored.
-
Sounds like a plan is forming. I like it when a plan forms
Best of luck with it Martin, and as always. Keep us posted 🤞👍
-
I'm arranging to go over to my friend's in the coming weeks to get the compression test done :)
-
Brilliant, keep me/us posted 🤞👍
-
Compression test was about 120 psi or 8 bar.
-
Is that good?
I’d have to look it up what the compression should be Martin
-
Just looked it up. Apparently it should be minimum 150psi maximum 180psi.
So it would appear yours is down slightly
As I mentioned before, now I’ve dine a 1000 miles on the rebuilt engine, I’ve started to rev it higher and I can’t belt he difference between the two engines
-
Thanks Michael.
I've been advised to check the valve clearances before doing anything further. So that's my next intended move.
-
I've also been advised to disconnect the de-compressor next time I check the compression, after the valve clearances check.
Have you been able to make any progress on the tracker project Michael?
-
Morning Martin (anybody else who’s logging in these days 🙄)
I personally haven’t made much progress with it, However Malcolm and his two sons down at metal malarkey are really cracking on with it.
Due to a few personal & family issues recently, one of them obviously being my prostate cancer op etc. I decided to let Malcolm & his lads carry on with it further once they’d done the rear subframe. I’m probably going to get them to do 90% of it. Plus I’m pretty busy with work commitments at the moment so it kind of made sense. They’re doing a cracking job of things so far.
I’ll ask Bill if he wouldn’t mind posting a few more “progress photos” up for me.
Cheers, Michael
-
Nae bother! Bill
-
Looking forward to seeing what progress has been made.
As regards my own RS I checked the valve clearances and they were a bit out, some too loose and some too tight.
While I had the bodywork off I cleaned and re-oiled the air filter foam, swapped a dodgy HT lead, tightened up loose exhaust nuts and changed the spark plug.
It's running well enough but I'm interested to re-check the compression which I'll do when I can borrow my friend's gauge.
-
Michael's update images dated the 24th, June 2026. These images have been re-sized to suit the websites limitations. If you would like a copy of the original size image, please PM me, with you email address and I will supply the image via We Transfer. Good health, Bill
-
Many thanks for taking the time to post the pics Bill. Very much appreciated 👍
Michael
-
Nae bother! Bill
-
Great to see it's coming along.
What's the brake caliper off?
-
Hi Martin, the brake caliper is from a Royal Enfield scram/Himalayan. Malcolm has machined up a bracket to accommodate it to the original fork bolt holes. The disc is from a Honda 250 super dream, slightly larger in diameter but same hub pattern and offset as the RS. Both will be new items on the finished bike, along with a royal Enfield front master cylinder and brake lever. You can buy the whole shabang for around £110. The disc will be an EBC item, which from what I understand comes drilled, so hopefully aid braking a little 🤞
That’s the one thing on the standard bike that is definitely lacking. The front brake is hopeless 🙄
Cheers, Michael
-
Thanks Michael.
Yes the front brake is somewhat 80s in its operation isn't it.
I use a special fluid in my older bikes which I get from Demon Tweeks.It doesn't absorb water nor damage paintwork and lasts forever supposedly. With a braided hose it helps a bit. I'm also using a pattern master when the old expired, but I agree, the front brake still leaves something to desire.
I would think my Guerrilla uses the same Bybre parts.
-
I used a smaller diameter master cylinder on mine which did improve the braking a lot at the expense of more lever travel. Can't remember now what it was off but I probably posted something about it here.
-
I would think my Guerrilla uses the same Bybre parts.
Yes, most likely Martin. I’d been looking for a caliper which would hopefully be an improvement on the original, when I noticed big bros Scram caliper. It just so happened that Malcolm at metal malarkey had a second hand one in his stock. So we decided to go with that set up. I’m pretty confident that it’ll be an improvement over the standard set up🤞
Cheers, Michael
-
We re - checked the compression after doing the valve clearances and the reading was the same, even with the decompressor disconnected.
Any idea how much a top end rebuild might cost and more importantly what if any performance increase would be expected?
-
Hi Martin,
Going on what I paid for a complete engine rebuild, using genuine Honda parts where available, and built by a reputable bloke. I would say around £800 to £1000 for a complete top end rebuild. Regarding the “performance increase” I personally wouldn’t like to say. I suppose it depends on how bad it is now and how much one personally expects to gain.
As I’ve mentioned before, my rebuilt engine just feels “stronger” throughout the rev range. The actual power increase doesn’t feel massively increased but I’ve not revved it above 6000 rpm yet, and is when it ultimately starts to make its power. 6000 rpm upwards. 6000 is approximately 60mph in top, so apart from the odd overtaking manoeuvre I very rarely want or need to take it above 60. The way it gets up to 6000rpm now though is better/smoother/stronger.
I spent big money on the engine rebuild and I’m also spending big money on the rolling chassis with metal malarkey but that’s mainly because I never intend to sell the bike. Thoroughly enjoy riding it.
Hope this helps a little Martin 🤷???
Cheers.. Michael
-
Thanks Michael. I really appreciate your input.
Your figure is in the ballpark of what I would have expected.
I completely understand to you are unable to comment on whether it's worth throwing money at it and that's got to be my decision.
It's often said if you want more performance then buy a more powerful bike but I already have several luckily enough!
I think I've got most bases covered now and none of us is getting any younger so perhaps I should be content with what I've got as there's a lot more to life than chasing more material things!