I think I'm a bad person.

[Andy M]

Currently sat here feeling smug on the basis that whatever Morisons put in the petrol the MZ will probably burn it. I mean, it was designed to run on cabbage juice and army issue vodka, so anything else short of coal dust is pretty easy.

I think the worst bit of the whole thing (unless your Lamda sensor copped it of course, in which case deepest sympathy, enjoy riding your Thumper and I hope they get the ******s that caused it), is going to be all the old boys on the classic forums that have been telling us to buy branded fuel for years. Half of them may of been drinking it, but that'll be no reason to keep quiet.

Of course, next time I'm trying to un-bung a jet or swap a plug in the rain I'll be feeling way less smug, but at the minute I'm about the only person in the office not worried. (I'm also the only one who knows what a Lamda sensor is, but thats a sales office for you). I'll be reminding them of this luddites victory next time they decide the smoky stroker is an object of fun.

Andy

[Bruce]

Perhaps I am as well as my Norton has a compression ratio of 4.5 it will run on virtually anything I did approach a local garage to ask if they would supply me petrol that had been put into and then pumped out of a Diesel car but with no luck.Hi tec is good when it works but when it goes wrong look out.

[guest18]

you think they're upset now? Wait until mot time and all these cars fail because as they were misfiring they were pumping unburnt fuel into their exceedingly expensive catalysers

[Martin Churchill]

I'm also the only one who knows what a Lamda sensor is, but thats a sales office for you
Andy

Andy, you may know what one is, but apparently you don't know it is actually spelt "lambda" in English (in the original Greek it's just one letter, of course!).

And for the benefit of any uninitiated souls out there, lambda is used in the automotive industry as the symbol for the stoichiometrically ideal air-fuel ratio for petrol engines, and the lambda sensor tells the ECU what is actually being achieved in this respect, so it can then supply more or less fuel to the injectors in order to get as close as possible to the desired figure.  So there! 

[guest27]

Mmmm the lambda sensor does not tell how well the engine is doing in relation to 14.7:1 (cannot spell stoki..  stochio,,, strokmargerino) its output changes dependent on the O2 in the exhaust gas (compared to that going in to the engine)  The ECU then calculates whether the mixture is lean or weak and adjusts accordingly - cycling through the lean-rich-lean-rich cycle over a very short period (which offends my CQI / SoPK / Deming background as it is building waste - excess fuel consumption - into the system...)

Nyah nyah nyah

R








Smugly walks from room and falls over large pedant hanging from neck - damn

[guest18]

Mmmm the lambda sensor does not tell how well the engine is doing in relation to 14.7:1

Damn, beat me to it! (shuffles away quietly hoping no-one notices his tardiness)

[Steve H]

cycling through the lean-rich-lean-rich cycle over a very short period (which offends my CQI / SoPK / Deming background as it is building waste - excess fuel consumption - into the system...)

Rog, (I'm not trying to be smart here just understanding what you said) does not the time running weak balance out the running weak, thereby maintaining a balance.
Whats CQI / SoPK / Deming ?

Steve

[Andy M]

[
Andy, you may know what one is, but apparently you don't know it is actually spelt "lambda" in English (in the original Greek it's just one letter, of course!).


 

Working in brakes we have it far easier; Mu and G ;-))

Andy

[Andy M]

Took me ages to even think of a reason why Ethanol or Silicone or whatever would wreck a sensor (stuff I'm used to is more electrical/mechanical/coil based). The Bosch book however says they use a voltaic system working on a ceramic base. Basically it's an open battery by the sound of it. The amount of oxygen effects the reaction and the ECU reads the voltage. Swap the electrolite for the wrong stuff and it'll no doubt burn whatever passes for the plates. Anyone know how the thing works?

Andy

[guest7]

I thought it was because the power pixies didn't like the taste.

I won't have a word said against silicon, it's the cornerstone of my business (that and Gripfill) :-)

GC

[guest27]

Basicly an open battery - try http://tinyurl.com/yootwq for a simple explanation (well it is complex to me but it does not have any addyup - maths - in  there)

Cycling in a system - you would think that the rich highs would counter out the lean lows, however in the lean periods the engine is not being optimal, and in the rich periods it aint either. - CQI SoPK etc.  Continual Quality Improvement - SoPK, System of Profound Knowledge, Deming the Yank PhD, phylosopher, teacher etc who drew together the various strings of thinking that make up CQI / SoPK, and from which we learn - in a robust empirical manner not just cos some consultant has a book to sell - that the bandwidth of variation in a system is indicative of the waste in the system - and in most circumstances there is less waste in the system if you do not have cycling like from the lambda process.

R

[Steve H]

Cycling in a system - you would think that the rich highs would counter out the lean lows, however in the lean periods the engine is not being optimal, and in the rich periods it aint either. - CQI SoPK etc.  Continual Quality Improvement - SoPK, System of Profound Knowledge, Deming the Yank PhD, phylosopher, teacher etc who drew together the various strings of thinking that make up CQI / SoPK, and from which we learn - in a robust empirical manner not just cos some consultant has a book to sell - that the bandwidth of variation in a system is indicative of the waste in the system - and in most circumstances there is less waste in the system if you do not have cycling like from the lambda process.

Ok makes sense, is the bandwidth that wide. I know that some of the cheaper sensors have a very simplistic almost binary signal which indicates correct or not correct(as a simple level), wereas the more expensive sensors (wideband) provide a more linear output which would provide a responsive system.
Also I suspect I was coming from the position of it being more efficent than a carburettors which dont have any form of feedback (in terms of the combustion process).

Steve

[guest7]

Oh I think I was getting confused, i thought it was a Lambada sensor - very attuned to specific dance beats...




I'll get my (sequinned) coat.

GC

[guest27]

Hi There - it is probably not as bad at I am making out - you can make any graph look bad by expanding / compressing axis etc.  However the stuff I saw looked like structural variation - a set pattern, whilst this would be loads better than a carb - except at one very particular setting where the carb works perfectly (huh some luck).  The cycling of the process seemed to have no element of chaos in it - no real chance for the injector to improve matters even more - just cycle to a certain level of lean, back rigth off to a set level of rich and lean off again.  There again - what do I know, the actual system may be running perfectly and the thing I am looking at is an output feature.

R