Author Topic: Ethanol fuel compatible?  (Read 927 times)

themoudie

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2021, 04:10:25 PM »
Aye Steve,

A friend is running BT45/6 combo on his Vincent 1000 and reports good handling, wet or dry and now getting 2,500 miles from a rear tyre compared with 1,500 miles from Avon RoadRider's.

Slainte, Bill

Steve Lake

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2021, 07:02:30 PM »
just noticed this product ... anyone tried it ...B3C Ethanol Shield Fuel Stabiliser 118ml
at toolstation £7.98
Toolstation product code 19760

120ml treats 160L of petrol

this is what the manufacturer says about their product

Stabilizes fuel up to 3 years
OEM tested, verified and used
Prevents engine repairs
Prevents ethanol fuel problems
Works in all 2 and 4 cycle engines
Prevents water issues, conditions rubber and plastic
Vapor Corrosion Inhibitor (VCI) protects above and below fuel line
Dramatically slows fuel aging
No alcohol
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 07:08:03 PM by Steve Lake »

themoudie

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2021, 10:50:37 PM »
Evening Steve,

Castrol Valvemaster does similar and helps prevent valve seat erosion (I know that may not be a problem with Japanese valve seats) and I had 3 bottles delivered for £33-00 from an eBay seller, p&p free. 250ml bottle treats 250l fuel and the integral measure is very clear and easy to use.

Friend with Vincent twin found a pump with E10 in Inverness this weekend past, so decided to fill with E5 super unleaded, but is going to try the E10 as he has a "soft" engine that doesn't require the octane rating and will drain fuel system down if off the road for more than 8 weeks.

I'll probably try some E10 in the Duke as it is only about 9.5:1, with the Castrol Valvemaster and drain as required. May need to change jets and or richen the pilot screw, but if the USA has been using it since ~1980, I am sure we can run with it. Just more fettling!  ;)

Bill

Steve Lake

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2021, 05:51:10 AM »
Hi Bill, looks like valvemaster is the better option then, certainly price wise, and effectiveness. i'll give it a try .... if i ever get #1 back on the road.
on the plus side, i treated myself to an ultrasonic cleaner, obviously chinese, none the less it's doing a grand job, while i had the carbs off #1 (2 x dellorto 33's) i stripped them and left them in the cleaner overnight, gave them 3 30 min sessions, and they are looking grand. all reassembled and (hopefully) fuel proof.
pip pip

themoudie

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2021, 09:05:11 AM »
You keep a troshin with that #1  ;D ;D ;D ;D

We are off for a bit of 'therapy' today, afore it gets too hot, 26°C past couple of days and shingles is giving me jip and I get rid of the pain on the bike. Maybe not what the Doc suggested, but the Mono will get an airing.  ;)

Good health, Bill

Steve Lake

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2021, 12:44:55 PM »
Shingles ???!!! ... .bugger!!, thats not good Bill.... horrible pain, sleepless nights ... are you getting any treatment? ... how long you had it ?
you're lucky with the weather , been grey, damp, cold and drizzle here for 5 days.
enjoy your ride out
pip pip

Simon

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2021, 04:20:13 PM »
 I can conirm that Srx400 3VN monoshock, runs fine on E10, no knocking or lack of power.  The solvent effect is clear and the cheap respray from the previous owner has bubbled up on the top of the tank around the filler cap, when evaporation was trapped by a rubber mat laid to protect the tank from knocks in the garage.  The hydroscopic effect is not so much of a worry I think as it is treatable much like I did with a Harley to prevent fuel icing in winter.  Using the bike regularly should help as well.  The solvent effect is a worry for carb internals and I cannot see any additive that will stop this but it might slow it down.  Fuel lines can easily be swapped.  I run 2 filters between the tank cock and the vacuum tap to the carb.  Currently using small round filters for a 50cc scooter.  Will keep an eye on them but if bikes post a cetratin year are resistant to E10 solvent then surely filters designed for more modern bikes should be ok. 

Interesting videos about removing ethanol but without that what do you think about carb/petcock damage from solvent?

themoudie

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2021, 09:23:42 PM »
Aye Steve and welcome Simon,

You'll notice we can ramble on a bit here and go off at tangents!  ;)

Steve, went out on the run and after ~10 miles the Duke coughed at a set of traffic lights and even though hot wouldn't run on the throttle and required the choke to start? ???  Thought that it might be vapourisation as we were up at 23°+ today, but the problem persisted. So, nothing for it, Kat went for a run, whilst I awaited rescue! :(  I decided to investigate further and opened the slide whilst gawping down the inlet. Lo and behold the needle sat in the main jet!  :o ::)  So, off with the carb top and pull the slide out and found that the needle circlip had chewed the needle groove and also worn so that it wouldn't grip the needle. Amal MKII 2932, with less than 2,500 miles under the belt! :(  Fitted spare carb needle and circlip after recovery home and put 35 miles on the old bird tonight, nae bother.

Shingles is not bad, taking anti-viral drug and now in my second week. For me, the internal pain behind my right shoulder blade is worse than any itching etc behind the blisters that are on the front. Ride the bike and it goes away! ;) ;D ;D  Keep taking your #1 medicine!  ;D  Down to 5°C at night, with cold heavy dew and harr in the mornings, burnt off by 11:00am and heavy dew back down by 20:00hrs.

Simon, thank you for your contribution, it is the solvent and hygroscopic affects that I too think are the problem, not the running qualities of the fuel that some tweaks to carb adjustment cannot sort out. After all, post WWII, apparently one of the fuels sold and was a mixture of alcohol and petrol and it was sold as a 'performance' petrol. I have seen at my local independent garage a forecourt list with manufacturers recommendations of the date from which machines are E10 compliant. Machines prior to the date are advised to use E5. For the 4 main Japanese manufacturers, the cut off date is ~1990.

A definitive list is available from the DVLA website at this link: Check-Vehicle-E10-Petrol

Reputable carb rebuild kits will maybe at a premium soon and the kits from NRP carbs have proved reliable: NRP_carb_spares

Our Far Eastern "trading partners" may try flogging all sorts of rubbish, like their fuel filters. Viton, rather than nitrile et al, appears to be reliable in resisting E10.

I hope this helps.

Good health, Bill

Steve Lake

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2021, 07:05:32 AM »
Hi Bill, sounds like you have caught the shingles in time with rapid treatment, here's hoping for a quick and full recovery. i remember, when i were nowt but a nipper, and our family transport was a 1936 Sumbeam 600 with a double adult sidecar (i looked up the reg on the dvla and the old girl is still going) ... my father insisted on National Benzole which he thought had an alcohol component, and then a shot of RedeX  UCL (an additional penny on the bill) ... funny how you remember these things.
i have just put a pair of Amal 2932's through my ultrasonic cleaner, no sign of degradation on the needle grooves, but these were off my old track day bike, and not used in the last 10 years. still, will have to keep my eye on them once they are in regular use.
actually got some sun this morning, but at 15c not going to overheat any time soon.
shiny side up old bean

iansoady

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2021, 09:59:33 AM »
National Benzole did indeed contain ethanol (or ethyl alcohol as it was then known) as did Cleveland Discol which was widely available in the North East - said to be up to 20% ethanol. My dad reckoned it was great stuff and never had problems with it.

I'm still firmly of the opinion that the issue is not ethanol but is the plethora of weird substances that are now added to petrol. I think it's these that have the solvent effect etc. As regards carb parts, I put various old Amal bits in a jamjar of E5 and left them for a year. There was no corrosion or deposits on any.

These are the bits after a year:



Afterwards I put some water in the same jamjar so that it sank to the bottom and left it for another few months. The result:



The crusty deposits appeared only on the parts in the water - note the carb slide which was half in water half petrol.
Ian.
1952 Norton ES2
2008 Yamaha 250 X-Max

themoudie

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2021, 10:10:52 AM »
A nice wee experiment Ian, thank you for posting.

I also like your choise of jam, very tasty! ;)

All the best, Bill

Steve Lake

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2021, 10:28:22 AM »
interesting test Ian, all good info to add to our collective 'thumper knowledge base'

richardeblack

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2021, 03:16:02 PM »
Hello All,
just watched this video

Quite interesting. 
I might have an experiment myself.
Cheers,
Richard.

Dave#22

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2021, 08:04:58 PM »
How interesting....a group of us have just completed a 500 mile tour of North Wales in classic cars...the first fill up was with E5, with no issues, the second was with E10 [no E5 available] and a few were complaining of pinking....of which I was one in the Lotus Elan....the last fill up was with Shell super E5, but I had to give the car back shortly after, so I don't know if the pinking stopped....I'll forward the link to the others.
Thanks.
Dave.

Steve Lake

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Re: Ethanol fuel compatible?
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2021, 11:06:36 PM »
so Dave, lets get this straight ..... you know someone who will lend you a lotus elan for a spin out on a 'fuel test' ??????