Weekend debrief

[guest27]

The Boss is a physio - dont want to hear what she says about chiropractors lol

There again according to Rossi - Honda make crap bikes and according to Hayden Yamaha make crap bikes so I guess it is just professional antagonism.  Mind as a man steeped in systems thinking I do struggle with the chiropractic somewhat 2D view of life.

R

[andy230]

The Boss is a physio - dont want to hear what she says about chiropractors lol

There again according to Rossi - Honda make crap bikes and according to Hayden Yamaha make crap bikes so I guess it is just professional antagonism.  Mind as a man steeped in systems thinking I do struggle with the chiropractic somewhat 2D view of life.

Heh!  Its funny, how views differ.  With no offence to anyone (bill, or anyone else), as a scientist, I tend to dismiss (or more accurately, am extremely cynical, I dont dismiss it) homeopathy.  I just can't get my head round the principles it relates to.  Technically, there's nothing there!

However, (also as a scientist) the very fact that people are "cured" by it, means that, put simply, it works.  The Royal London Homeopathic Hospital is just next door to me here.  And trust me, its big!  And rich!!  And very well (NHS) funded.  However, as far as I'm aware there isn't a single published article hypothethising a mechanism.  Lots of studies have looked, but there's nothing yet. 

On the flip-side (scientists must also consider this) there isn't too much on a mechanism for accupuncture.  But, apparently, it works.

Good friends of mine swear by homeopathy.  We've had to agree to disagree!   I'm sure I would change my tune (pretty feckin quickly!) if I had an ailment which wouldn't respond to conventional therapy and was remedied by homeopathy.

Each to thine own!  I mean, folk think I'm daft with a garage full of thumpers.  And why, exactly, would you want to race them?!?!

Horses for courses, I say.  Whatever works for you.  Get well soon pat!!

Stay healthy.  Good diverse topics on this forum, eh?!

a

[002]

2. The Not so Little Book of Dung, Caroline Holmes, Sutton Publishing 2006, ISBN 0 7509 4051 4. It is what it says on the cover, written in an easy factual style, yet talking about "scatology" and "coprophilia"! Yep, 002 and SteveL, lavatorial!

I think that books Crap !    LOL

Sorry to hear about your back Pat.
A friend of mine has a lot of trouble with her back.
And finds hanging up side down from a trapeze helps a lot,also some yoga exercises.
Of course you cant do these staight away you will have to wait until you are a lot better.

Jethro

[guest27]

I just can't get my head round the principles it relates to.  Technically, there's nothing there!

However, as far as I'm aware there isn't a single published article hypothethising a mechanism.

On the flip-side (scientists must also consider this) there isn't too much on a mechanism for accupuncture.

As a scientist I too had troubles, then I started learning about systems thinking and some of the ideas about what we know etc - look up the Rumsfelt quote that got all the p155 taken out of it  - the one about what we know, what we dont know etc.  This is actually a very good saying from before DR and if anyone else had regurgitated it it would have been seen as such.  Can homeopathy work, well given conventional thining it cannot because there is nothing there - but that is dependent on how we look.  Take a wider view and we realise that something like 30% of conventional drugs do not work as well as a placebo when tested double blind and much of the 'therapy' we allow the NHS to fund has no basis at all.  If homeopathy gets a good outcome just because of the placebo effect - then lets supply it on the NHS - it is a darn sight cheaper...  but nothing there...

Some time back - and I cannot find the reference, some bod set out to show homeopathy could not work because there was nothing left after all those dilutions, only to find that there were differences in the hydrogen bonding (I think) in the homeopathic solution compared to distilled water - a sort of water memory.  I know there was a lot of pooh-poohing of this at the time - because it could not be so.  It would seem that a more open mind (not suggesting you) might not go amiss...  Having tried homeopathic treatment for my ME I know something was happening - not what I was seeking, but the remedys DID have an effect, even if it was a placebo.

Acupuncture - ummmmm try telling a chinese scientist that there is no mechanism.  true it is based on meridians of energy etc - which are not recognised by western medicine / science, but they are well documented.  Dont know if this is true - but I recall reading of a test done on acupuncture that showed that it did not work, when this was looked at by an expert practitioner they pointed out that the map for the nodes used was wrong and the needles were in the wrong place, when done in the right place it worked fine - identified that these Western scientists did not build enough understanding to run the trial.  Also I seem to remember that there was a fairly large, placebo controlled - but not fully double blind - trial of some aspects of acupuncture carried out that showed that it did work - but of course there was no apparent physical mechanism, so it was put down to potentially a placebo effect.  Again, if you can develop a placebo that has positive effect on 80%+ of the people, does that not sound like a viable treatment?

Final little thought on this meander through two firing brain cells, I am a beekeeper - and have become interested in propolis.  Bee produced propolis was a major drug in the former Yugoslavia, having been found to have wide and varied effects - promotes healing, anti viral, antibiotic etc etc.  On the collapse of Yugoslavia a lot of this knowledge passed into the 'western' drug companies, where they tried to replicate propolis artificially - so they could patent the outcome, despite making what for all intents is perfect synthetic propolis, they have (as far as I know) not managed to replicate the effect of the good stuff.  Chemically indistinguisable so thus the same, yet it does not work - thus in the view of some, propolis does not work. - My guess there are some interesting isomers etc in there.

Blather over....

R

[squirrelciv]

Lots of big words and long sentences, but at the end of the day, results (for the individual) tell the strongest tale. After many many years of pain and discomfort I finally gave in and went to a chiropractor 5(odd) years ago. After 3 sessions, nothing, not so much as a twitch till this weekend. Trust me when I say i was cynical before, but not after.  3 years ago had a nasty case of shin splints that refused to go away despite my doctors best efforts. He reccommended alterior medicine and refered me to an acupuncturist. 1 consultation, 1 pin in the shin and no pain since :-)
Don't care if it's hocuspocus it worked for me. That said, if i don't get good results on Wednesday I'll be keping the rest of my money in my back pocket!

BTW got a book after all. Absolutely nothing to do with high adventure, motorcycling, near death escapes whilst pushing back the bounaries of human endeavour. No, found that lot all too depressing in my crippled state. Went instead for the latest offering by Tim Moore who sets about tracking down all those acts that scored Nul Point in the Eurovision song contest. If any of you have read anything by this guy, let me tell you, this is just as funny, if not better :-) When the shit is all over the fan, and there is nothing to do but face your destiny, I shall do it wetting myself with laughter :-)

[themoudie]

You see, that's why the membership fee to this club is worth every penny! Erudite, learned discussion by scientists and laymen all in the cause of trying to make a fellow Thumpeteer a 'Happy Squirrel' again.

I personaly consult an osteopath, who trained for 7 years at Melbourne University for his qualification. After years of lower back pain from Ducati singles drop bars and forward foot pegs, an overly tight leather jacket, worn 'cause it was all I had, chainsaw work, playing in the 2nd row and 3 other osteopaths, one of whom 'did' acupuncture, 30 minutes of pain sorted me out. Deep muscle massage with the point of the elbow and the full weight of a 13.5 stone man in the buttock around the ball and socket took the muscle knots out!

At present an annual tune up, with hanging from the workshop rafters, a few stomach curls and reminding myself to relax, walk tall, pull the stomach and buttocks in when sitting and walking seems to be working.

Arnica appears to be the only homeopathic thing that really works for me. Oh! It has started snowing, so better get the plough out for tomorrow.

Toodle pip, Bill

[guest18]

Oh! It has started snowing, so better get the plough out for tomorrow.

WHOOHOO SNOW :-)))
Bring it on!! Now all I need to do is fix the heater in the Landy :-/ lol

[themoudie]

Aye Smudge, we've an inch and its coming steady from the NE in front of the front with pressure dropping steady. Thursday looks interesting as we may get more with a F8+ carrying it, whilst others just get wet and I've got to be in Corstorphine for 09:30! Not a happy bunny!

More camping stuff arrived, so now to go and have a look see!

Regards, Bill