Author Topic: non thumper gremlin  (Read 1145 times)

robG

  • Guest
non thumper gremlin
« on: March 04, 2009, 09:22:56 PM »
Apologies for the non thumper nature of the post , but this is a bit tricky.

Some of you may recall that on the way to the Dragon my trusty Xs 11 cut out . A flick of the kill switch restored interest and I continued without further incident.On the way back , as we approached Brecon ,and hit heavy snow falling,the bike began to miss and spent the next 40 ish miles on two and three.Limped home .
Having a dabble a few days later revealed the following ,

Neutral and oil light on , ignition , would fire but as before , only on two . However as the coils feed 1/3 and 2/4 you would expect either or .No, the cylinders firing were 3/4 . Then the power went completly . Lifting the seat showed the problem ,or so I thought .The thick red wire coming from the loom and connecting to the starter solenoid had snapped and was very corroded . Cutting back and splicing together restored power . Game on,so I thought !.Not so fast .No matter if the ignition switch was on /off ,I had power . Still would only fire on 3/4 .Lots of backfiring from ,mainly 1, not much interest if any from 2 {pipe cold }
If you disconnect the ignition switch ,then you have no idiot lights , but the bike will still start and run , allbeit on 3/4 ,some interest from 1 .
I have a spare cdi , but the symtoms persist .I've stripped back the insulation ,but can find no obvious breaks or corrosion .

Any ideas would be gratefully received . I know this is awkward without a wiring diagram etc ,but.....

Rob .


Steve Lake

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2393
  • Dyslexics have more nuf
Re: non thumper gremlin
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 10:47:55 PM »
although the wiring sounds like it's going to need some tlc.....considering your last journey (wet/salt/crap) and considering 1&2 are misbehaving, have you considered contaminated fuel?

'considered' is my wednesday word :-)

guest27

  • Guest
Re: non thumper gremlin
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 07:19:42 PM »
Any luck on this?

It would seem reasonable if the two cyls firing are not fed from a common coil that the problem is not electricity, and the flicking of the kill switch etc may just have been coincidence / wet etc.

Fuel would seem a reasonable start, as would making sure that the spark plug caps are on etc - maybe dislodged on one side whan packing - not likely I know but just a thought.

R

robG

  • Guest
Re: non thumper gremlin
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 08:39:22 PM »
Thanks Rog . No progress due to work interfering and concentrating on Rs .{Now back on road and great fun !}

Cylinders 1/2 , plugs wet and black . Occasional backfire from silencer on that side . Seems to indicate fuel getting through . I'm going to set aside a day and can see that I will replace the loom with a spare that I have .

Rob .


johnr

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1375
Re: non thumper gremlin
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2009, 10:51:57 AM »
ok, xs1100's , ive a bit of experience as my mate has one and has had the same problems at various times in the past. firstly, the xs100 ignition system was designed by the universal guild of points ignition manufacturers as a sick joke to prevent people from fitting cdi units to bikes!! i kid, but only a bit. the ignition system is unique in having 2 seperate mechanical ignition advance/retard units on it. one is mechanically operated by bobweights on the ignition pickups, the other is vacuum operated from a pipe connected to the carb inlets. quite why yamaha decided to simplify the ignition by fitting a cdi, and then complicate it by fitting such a dogs dinner of adv ret units is beyond me. anyhow, i digress. the pots fire in pairs, however, they fire in 1+4 and 2+3 together, not 1+3 and 2+4. the carbs can be a pain as they have 2 seperate fuel taps, one feeds 1+2 the other 3+4, and both are vaucuum operated, so if the vac pipe for cylinders 1+2 is off, then those 2 pots will fail, ditto the other tap. if the ignition coils went tits up, then you would lose either the two outer post or the centre 2, so that may help narrow things down. the ignition system is further complicated  by the coils not actually being 12volt, but actually 9 volt, these are boosted on startup to 12volt, but ballast resisters then make them run on 9volts i told you it was a dogs dinner didnt i. chuck in the fact that when the ballast resistors go tits up, you wont know , but the coils will slowly overheat and cut out eventually! this can in time cook your cdi unit, which, living under the seat at the back, can also cop a soaking from the back wheel! xs11 cdi's are like hens teeth.

remember also that XS1100's have an anti fall engine cut out on them. this is a tilt switch that is designed to kill the engine if the bike falls over. this is fine on a solo, but on an outfit, the bike actually experiences sideways forces that can cause the ignition to cut out mid corner(from experience this!!) so disconnect the cutout if you havent already.

finally, check the drain hole in the recess for the petrol filler cap. this can easily clog up, allowing water to collect in there, then when you open the petrol cap, the water spills over into the tank, contaminating your fuel. rusting the tank and then clogging carbs with rusty dust.

 xs1100 carbs are also a bit cack, we fitted fj1200 carbs to daves, which had the twin benefits of making it both faster and also improving the fuel consumption!!

id clean and gap the plugs, and check all the connections first, then check the adv ret are working. next, id check the carbs on the left side, drain them and see if they have any water in them. if so, id check the filler cap, and then drain the tank and clean it out, perhaps even seal it too.

good luck!!

guest7

  • Guest
Re: non thumper gremlin
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2009, 07:31:31 PM »
Bloody hell, I thought my XBR had some poor design features, but after reading that I think I'll donate an XBR to the V&A as a symbol of design excellence.  ;)

GC

robG

  • Guest
Re: non thumper gremlin
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 07:39:28 PM »
Many Thanks Johnr . Lots of things to keep me going .Once it's up and running it's going to make way for a modern big thumper .
I've got some time off coming up and have set aside a day to get to the bottom of it all .

Many thanks ,

Rob .

johnr

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1375
Re: non thumper gremlin
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2009, 10:46:31 PM »
ballast resistors can be  bought at any back street car shop for a couple of quid each. theyre the same as the yam ones, but a fraction of the price.
remember that the xs crank spins backwards, not a problem, but when setting stuff up, remember that it spins in the oposite direction to the norm.
any other probs, drop me a pm. somewhere ive got a short fault finding article on the various common problems of the xs ignition system.

robG

  • Guest
Re: non thumper gremlin
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2009, 04:01:46 PM »
Many thanks ,John . Will do , once I start on the beast .

Rob .

robG

  • Guest
Re: non thumper gremlin
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2009, 05:01:22 PM »
Just an update really . Again many thanks for contributions , on and off forum .

Decided to sort this out ,however time constraints ,work and home have meant no progress until about three weeks ago .Got halfway then other things took over . Went out to the garage  on Monday night and got stuck in, basically I've changed the wiring harness for one which I had 'in stock' .Also took the opportunity to change the coils back to standard coils as opposed to the FJ ones fitted .Decided to stop there as I was changing a number of things without checking what, if anything, had sorted the gremlin . Anyway XS fired and now runs as should . Took it for a run this morning and had a panic when it went on reserve .Nice to have the old boy up and growelling again , though now have an exhaust that is blowing like a good'un  and a dragging clutch .

Ho hum ,more fiddling about required .

Rob . 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 05:05:59 PM by robG »