Author Topic: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-  (Read 2657 times)

Steve Lake

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2007, 09:22:33 AM »
Erm....I guess you've read the srx service manual.....but here's the figures anyway...
top ring 12 - 18th .. limit 24th
2nd ring 12 - 18th .. limit 24th
oil ring 8 -28th (no limit specefied)

measurement should be made with ring 0.8 of an inch from top of barrel

so... if you are gapping at 15th it would appear to be bang in the middle of the range, bearing in mind this data is for yamaha bore/piston/rings

keep taking the tablets!

andy230

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2007, 10:52:44 AM »
cheers steve,

hadn't looked at the manual (wiseco parts), but that makes sense, I think I'm ballpark then...

Taking the out spring off the head:

the inner and out springs actually touch...  Shouldn't they be completely free??  ie. its a bit tricky to spearate inner and outer?  Implications?  (thye're going back in, however, cos it ran well allegedly!)

FYI
"stainless" valves are marked 5Y1 inlet and 34K exhaust.  Stainless (non-magnetic) head, magnetic stem, so welded, but ok according to A Grahman Bell!

THE FIGHT GOES ON!!!

a

Steve Lake

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2007, 11:35:17 AM »
funny about the springs touching.......logically..I would think that this shouldn't be the case... and it might be a problem that needs addrerssing before the final build up...certainly the standard springs have lots of clearance

andy230

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2007, 08:20:05 PM »
Latest:

studs in
rings on
piston on
old base gasket- to reuse for intial build.

Noticed that the latter is 4-ply...  Possible earlier problem with valve-piston clearance...  May be 2 gaskets gummed together?  Normally 2 ply aluminium I think

So will build initially with new gasket. Eeeek! Then replace with another new gasket for final build?

Can you chaps tell me, is there a big O-ring to go in, under the barrel.  i'll omit it for now, should be ok just to check clearances.

But will need to purchase for build.

Oh well....

andy
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 08:22:43 PM by andy230 »

Steve Lake

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2007, 08:47:16 PM »
yup....part of the gasket kit should include a big 'O' ring for the base of the barrel, but it doesn't make any difference to any of the clearances...so ok to leave out for the initial test build up.

I'm still not happy about the springs...are they new? or have they been used... i.e. has the engine run for an appreciable length of time with these in? if so....you should be able to see if the springs have been touching (shiny areas)....I'm convinced that the springs should not touch....i can imagine all sorts of problems if this happens....the least of which would be inneficient valve operation.

themoudie

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2007, 10:05:23 PM »
Aye Andy,

More measurements! ::)

Check both inner and outer valve springs on a surface plate with the narrow pitch [angle between the coils of the spring] resting on the surface plate, that they stand vertical. Maximum lean allowed from vertical in any direction = 1.7mm (0.067"). This applies to both inner and outer springs. If either spring of the pair for each valve leans greater than 1.7mm then the inner and outer springs need to be replaced as a pair. ???

Inner valve springs should be 40.1mm (1.58") in length, NO WEAR LIMIT ALLOWED!
Outer valve springs should be 43.8mm (1.72") in length, NO WEAR LIMIT ALLOWED!
WITH NO BENDS OR DISTORTION ALONG THEIR LENGTH.

When assembling springs in head, ENSURE NARROW PITCH OF SPRING COILS FACES THE HEAD.
You will see that this means the inner spring is wound counterclockwise toward the head and the outer spring is wound clockwise toward the head.

IF YOUR SPRINGS ARE TOUCHING AND WORN 'BRIGHT' FLATS ON THE INNER OR OUTER SURFACE OF THE WIRE, REPLACE THE PAIR.

ONLY USE OIL SEALS ON VALVE STEM FOR FINAL ASSEMBLY.

ALL MEASUREMENTS QUOTED ARE FOR STANDARD YAMAHA PARTS, IF NON STANDARD REFER TO MANUFACTURERS SPECIFICATIONS AND WEAR LIMITS.

I sincerely hope that this doesn't give grief, but greater reliability.

My regards, Bill.

andy230

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2007, 10:35:29 PM »
Alright guys

Not sure to continue this thread, or start a new one.

I'll come back to the springs, but yes I agree, in theory they shouldn't touch...  2 springs should surely operate independantly.

Not really checked them, but nearly new (tho lightly used) but no flats.

Would they achieve clearance once compressed??  ie do springs get "fatter" and open out when compressed?

Anyway- cam chains now guys!!    ;D
   
The camchain is off the bottom sprocket.  The piston & barrel are now on.

Other than fucking around with a straightened coathanger, what are my options.  Can I put this back on by simply removing the side cover?  Any tips??

Its doing my nut  >:( and I'm going to bed!

PLUS I have seriously "shit in the nest" but getting oil on the carpet!!!!    :o

cheers.  can I get this done, built, running by february??!

a

themoudie

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2007, 11:38:06 PM »
Quote
Would they achieve clearance once compressed??  ie do springs get "fatter" and open out when compressed?

Er, NO! :o  If yours do, "We have a problem Houston!"

Should compress vertically, until coil bound, not slope off sideeeways. That's why you measure for lean.

As for oil on the carpet, gently brush in 'Fullers earth' cat litter, a type of bentonite clay which is hygroscopic. Leave to absorb for at least 8 hours then hoover with a Dyson. Repeat if necessary, then shampoo carpet if need be. Next time mooch an offcut of lino, to lay over the carpet afore oiling up!

As for the camchain, reads like a sidecover and generator 'off' job to me afore you go any further! :( You'll be reet 'acked  afore this is finished, chill, Zen, chill, cool, clear water in uisge beatha. ;D

My regards, Bill.

Steve Lake

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2007, 06:59:40 AM »
do you mean the chain is dropped down to the bottom?, if so, yes, a bit of gentle fishing with a piece of bent wire will bring it to the surface (don't drop the bluddy wire too!) you will be extremely unlucky if the chain doesn't re-engage with the bottom sprocket, there is so little clearance between the flywheel/rotor and the crankcase it has no option but to fit back onto the sprocket.....once retrieved from the bowels....holding the chain in one hand....gently rotate the crank a little each way and feel the chain move through your hand (and you have fitted the tensioner havn't you??, easily missed!) the cam chain will need to be properly tensioned before you make your clearance checks.

seems to be coming on nicely.....don't see februrary being a problem.....you were of course referring to 2009?   :D

andy230

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2007, 09:47:34 AM »
do you mean the chain is dropped down to the bottom

Nope, I mean I still have the top end, but the lower run is off to the RHS of the sprocket when viewed from above.  Its come off the lower sprocket, and is now over towards the genny cover   :'(

I'll see if I can re-engage it on the sprocket.

And I'll come back to the springs!

Cheers for now, have put a posting of recent teeth-gnashings on the blog:

http://team-thumper.blogspot.com

You must admit tho, it does at least *look* like a good motor!!

a
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 10:18:50 AM by andy230 »

Steve Lake

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2007, 07:13:18 AM »
ahhh but looks are only skin deep........we're looking for a meaningful lasting relationship here..so she needs to be nurtured.....talked to......caressed.......her internals need to be perfect

andy230

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2007, 10:21:50 AM »
Don't I know it Steve...That'll be why the missus is starting to get pissed off with the fact

a) I spend all my time talking about her
b) I spend a lot of money on her
c) I used to mess about with her a lot in the garage
d) But now I've moved the bitch in!!!!

Ok, simple maths:

cam chain + coathanger + glass of red wine + time = sucessful re-installment of chain on lower sprocket

Didn't get any more done, will bolt the barrel down tonight, slather blu-tak over the crown, and get the head on etc.

Keep you posted.  I still dont like the springs tho!  Maybe buy fresh ones.  Team-Thumper has negotiated a healthy discount at Kedo 

www.kedo.com

Wil order gaskets and other necessaries too.  (does anyone want anything???)

Had better brush up on the old deutsch

Bis Spater!

a

andy230

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2007, 12:38:16 AM »
Pics and info posted here;

http://team-thumper.blogspot.com

a

themoudie

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2007, 09:48:02 PM »
Aye Andy,

Oh dear ??? could've done without this. Sorry, I don't have access to detail of XT600 studs, rather than the SRX600 ones. Are the SZR660 ones different again? :-\

Sorry not to be more helpful and I hope the diplomatic charm offensive is sucessful.

My regards, Bill.

andy230

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Re: yam advice please! -ignore if my threads are p'ssin you off!!-
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2007, 10:14:31 AM »
Are the SZR660 ones different again? :-\

Sorry not to be more helpful and I hope the diplomatic charm offensive is sucessful.

My regards, Bill.

Dipolomatic relations are now much better.  the build *may* continue inside.... :-X

Re the water cooled motor, rather than tie it down with nuts over a flange, its bolted down with bolts from the top of the barrel.

This may be the source of the problem- crankcase holes too deep??  Will measure up and let you know.

But the motor turns over, without clattering the valves.  Not sure about clearace yet, but it turns!

a